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Maximize your return: Package Zednik and Bulis - that's right UFA-to-be Bulis

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05-08-2006, 05:00 AM
  #1
Pere Noel
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Maximize your return: Package Zednik and Bulis - that's right UFA-to-be Bulis

It's pretty much a given that Bulis is going to sign with another club than Montreal this summer. So in that regard, everybody expect us to lose him for nothing.

But after reading a post where Bulis would have said that he would miss Zednik and "all that sad stuff" and that Zednik would not come back to Montreal next year... I realize that we actually could still get a little something for Bulis.

You know how sometimes a team trade for a UFA-to-be, after the season, yet before he becomes UFA in order to gain advantage to talk to him first. The example that comes to mind is Roenick when Phoenix traded him to Philadelphia a few days prior to the deadline (if I am not mistaken).

Well, of course, Bulis is not a player that command such attention... yet, I was thinking the following.

If there is a team, that is in dire need of forwards, you can trade them both players.

By doing so, that team is much more likely to sign Bulis.... because, "plug the sad story - Zednik and I are such great friends" here, they would want to play with the same team...

For instance, I see maybe two teams that would fit that profile, Chicago and St-Louis. Both have awful "goals-for" 211, 197 respectively, and lack depth at the forward position. For the sake of the discussion, let's pick St-Louis.

You can trade Zednik to St-Louis and if in the course of the negotiation, St-Louis say would rather give a third round pick and you would rather get a second round (again those round numbers are just for the sake of the discussion)... then you can tell them that you can throw in Bulis and by doing so, St-Louis could get an even better shoot a signing him.

St-Louis has only one 20 goal scorer (Silinger with 22). Worst, there two best (not that they are very good) remaining centers are UFA-to-be.

Add on top of that they seem to become budget conscious, and that there are unlikely to attract lots of NHLers at this point of time... I see a good dynamic here. They more than likely would welcome a 20 goal center/wing (Bulis) and 16 goal wing (Zednik)...and let's be honest, Zednik is more of a 20 to 30 goal scorer (indeed had he play a full season, he had a rate of 20).

So if I were St-Louis, I would attempt to sign Bulis for two years+.... and next year, come around to resign Zednik, Zednik would have an incentive to resign with St-Louis because Bulis is in town for at least one more year.

Also, I think it would play well for Zednik and Bulis, as they want more ice time, and want to be on the second line and such.

A similar scenario can be elaborated with Chicago, as they need more speed and scoring....

And there you go, you have the perfect bargaining power position, you can discuss seriously with both St-Louis and Chicago, two neighborhood towns.

I am not dreaming in color and expect that such a trade would fetch a marvelous return, but I think we can maximize our return for Zednik, were we to package Bulis with it, prior of him obtaining UFA status.

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05-08-2006, 05:32 AM
  #2
habsforlife
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so why bulis just wait where zednik ends and then sign there.

why in the hell would he sign with us to get traded.
plus, he would loose his big ufa contract by doing that.

you really have to start minimizing those friends play together. they are not kids man, its not kindergarden.

seriously, i dont want to be rude but how old are you?

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05-08-2006, 05:54 AM
  #3
Pere Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsforlife
so why bulis just wait where zednik ends and then sign there.

why in the hell would he sign with us to get traded.
plus, he would loose his big ufa contract by doing that.

you really have to start minimizing those friends play together. they are not kids man, its not kindergarden.

seriously, i dont want to be rude but how old are you?
Obviously older than you. You completely missed what I said.

I didn't say that we should sign Bulis at all. I said St-Louis could attempt to sign him once they obtain his rights prior to UFA. Why would Bulis sign there before being UFA? Just like any UFA-to-be do it at times.... when they think they are getting more than the open market would give them... at the same time the team that signs them think they are getting them cheaper than the open-market... it's the beauty of the bargaining game.

Back to your indeed rude remark, it's not my fault if they stated that they like to play together and would be sad not to... really. Some people are like that. Heck some NHLers have done it, then went and signed to specific teams so that they can play with their buddies.

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05-08-2006, 06:21 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsforlife
so why bulis just wait where zednik ends and then sign there.

why in the hell would he sign with us to get traded.
plus, he would loose his big ufa contract by doing that.

you really have to start minimizing those friends play together. they are not kids man, its not kindergarden.

seriously, i dont want to be rude but how old are you?
I take it you don't remember Kariya / Selanne signing with Colorado?

Seriously, I don't want to be rude but are you stupid? (who makes these types of comments anyways? They obviously are rude.)

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05-08-2006, 08:04 AM
  #5
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I'm sorry, I dont quite get this concept...

Some team is going to give something up for the right to talk to Bulis? What do you imagine you could get for such an important asset?

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05-08-2006, 08:07 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
I'm sorry, I dont quite get this concept...

Some team is going to give something up for the right to talk to Bulis? What do you imagine you could get for such an important asset?
He's not saying the team could get much, but Bulis would be added to Zednik, who has some value.

It's a creative way of getting just a little bit more potentially.

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05-08-2006, 08:14 AM
  #7
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Teams generally give up 6th or 7th round picks for that only to get compensatory draft picks from the free agents.

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05-08-2006, 08:20 AM
  #8
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Not anymore. That's gone with the new CBA.

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05-08-2006, 10:55 AM
  #9
Pere Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
He's not saying the team could get much, but Bulis would be added to Zednik, who has some value.

It's a creative way of getting just a little bit more potentially.
Thank you!

Exactly what I meant.

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05-08-2006, 11:04 AM
  #10
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It makes sense, and has been done before.

Send them back to Washington...EXPRESS!

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05-08-2006, 01:32 PM
  #11
Pere Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-vite
It makes sense, and has been done before.

Send them back to Washington...EXPRESS!
I can see them fit out there... I am not sure it will fit Ted Leonsis' new philosophy though. What do you think?

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05-08-2006, 01:40 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pere Noel
I can see them fit out there... I am not sure it will fit Ted Leonsis' new philosophy though. What do you think?
Philosophy?

Aside from 'looking like a greasy haired mob boss', what is the other

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05-08-2006, 01:49 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pere Noel
You know how sometimes a team trade for a UFA-to-be, after the season, yet before he becomes UFA in order to gain advantage to talk to him first.
They received a compensatory pick under the old CBA, they do not anymore.
It's also important as a GM to not assume other GMs are retarded.

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05-08-2006, 01:53 PM
  #14
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In the salary-cap world, you may actually get LESS for Zednik if you saddle the other team with another mediocre player (Bulis) that they would have to negotiate with. I could easily see some teams offer more just for Zednik than if you packaged Zednik with Bulis.

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05-08-2006, 02:04 PM
  #15
Pere Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87
In the salary-cap world, you may actually get LESS for Zednik if you saddle the other team with another mediocre player (Bulis) that they would have to negotiate with. I could easily see some teams offer more just for Zednik than if you packaged Zednik with Bulis.
If you see it that way... then understand that you wouldn't have to resign Bulis. But now that being said, one would not even bother to offer you RFA-to-be Bulis if you just see it as mediocre.

On my side, Bulis is not mediocre, it's just that he wants to play an offensive role on the second line... and I think Bob wants someone of a higher caliber than Bulis for that role... and I can understand that.

Back to the topic, I think St-Louis will have problem signing up players. The only one who has shown interest as of late, is Doug Weight...and I wouldn't be surprised if that was for "bargaining power" reason.


Last edited by Pere Noel: 05-08-2006 at 02:05 PM. Reason: typo
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05-08-2006, 02:17 PM
  #16
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The logic of this thread eludes me. Bulis would sign with a team that makes him a good offer regardless of what happens to Zednik. I doubt whether he would wait around and risk losing an opportunity for a favorable contract. A team that acquires Bulis may not want Zednik as well. Conversely, a team that is interested in Zednik may have no interest in Bulis. Besides, Gainey may chose to wait for the best offer before trading Zednik. That might not happen until just before the preseason. Where would that leave Bulis in the meantime?


Last edited by Teufelsdreck: 05-08-2006 at 02:22 PM.
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05-08-2006, 03:06 PM
  #17
Pere Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
The logic of this thread eludes me. Bulis would sign with a team that makes him a good offer regardless of what happens to Zednik. I doubt whether he would wait around and risk losing an opportunity for a favorable contract. A team that acquires Bulis may not want Zednik as well. Conversely, a team that is interested in Zednik may have no interest in Bulis. Besides, Gainey may chose to wait for the best offer before trading Zednik. That might not happen until just before the preseason. Where would that leave Bulis in the meantime?
I have to agree with one of your point. That is the one where the best trade value for Zednik would be just before preseason.

I am not sure I agree with you that Bulis would sign with any team, regardless of where Zednik plays (solely based on the money). He justs wants out of Montreal, because Montreal has no plan to let him play on the second line all the time, as an offensive player.

Were you to find a team that wants Zednik, and would need a player such as Bulis, in the role that this latter wants... then Bulis could sign with them.

Actually, on that topic, Bulis will find that very few teams that have that second line spot for him... Again, I see Chicago and St-Louis as two of them.

On the "Zednik-Bulis-a-team-wouldn't-necessarly-want-both-of-them" reasoning, I agree with you, and that's why I focused on teams that lacked so much depth offensively that they should be interested in both.

Now back to the interesting point regarding when Zednik's value would be at his prime... I had given it some thoughts... and beside one where you can package him with Bulis... it could be just before preseason as you suggested.

Teams that would have failed to sign free agents and face the season with a shortage of offensive forwards may decide to go for him. It is also a time where you want to court customers to buy tickets... and announce some news...

Another time, would be much later in the season, where Zednik would have hopefully scored more than 16 goals... and would interest teams that wants to go far in the playoff... but at the same time, that team can be us.

I liked the scenario of trading him early, as we clear his salary... and we can focus on free agents..... Worst case scenario, where we do not sign up free agents... I say we move a kid up and give him a chance. I have no problem with that either.

In all cases, I think Zednik is gone within a year. Either he will not want to play here, or if he does, it is just to hang out and collect his salary... he doesn't seem to have the flame he had a few years ago.


Last edited by Pere Noel: 05-08-2006 at 03:11 PM. Reason: typo
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05-08-2006, 03:32 PM
  #18
Teufelsdreck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pere Noel
I have to agree with one of your point. That is the one where the best trade value for Zednik would be just before preseason.

I am not sure I agree with you that Bulis would sign with any team, regardless of where Zednik plays (solely based on the money). He justs wants out of Montreal, because Montreal has no plan to let him play on the second line all the time, as an offensive player.

Were you to find a team that wants Zednik, and would need a player such as Bulis, in the role that this latter wants... then Bulis could sign with them.

Actually, on that topic, Bulis will find that very few teams that have that second line spot for him... Again, I see Chicago and St-Louis as two of them.

On the "Zednik-Bulis-a-team-wouldn't-necessarly-want-both-of-them" reasoning, I agree with you, and that's why I focused on teams that lacked so much depth offensively that they should be interested in both.

Now back to the interesting point regarding when Zednik's value would be at his prime... I had given it some thoughts... and beside one where you can package him with Bulis... it could be just before preseason as you suggested.

Teams that would have failed to sign free agents and face the season with a shortage of offensive forwards may decide to go for him. It is also a time where you want to court customers to buy tickets... and announce some news...

Another time, would be much later in the season, where Zednik would have hopefully scored more than 16 goals... and would interest teams that wants to go far in the playoff... but at the same time, that team can be us.

I liked the scenario of trading him early, as we clear his salary... and we can focus on free agents..... Worst case scenario, where we do not sign up free agents... I say we move a kid up and give him a chance. I have no problem with that either.

In all cases, I think Zednik is gone within a year. Either he will not want to play here, or if he does, it is just to hang out and collect his salary... he doesn't seem to have the flame he had a few years ago.
The team that offers Bulis the most money is the one that is most likely to put him on one of its first two lines. In turn, that implies that this team has a weakness at left wing, because that's where Bulis plays. However, there may not necessarily be a need for Zednik at right wing (or left wing). Besides, Zednik has always been paid more than Bulis, and the team may not want to take on Zednik's salary.

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05-08-2006, 04:08 PM
  #19
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Players don't become UFA's untill July 1st, if I'm not mistaken? Therefore, Pere Noel's theory is an interesting one. Even if Gainey is offered a 6th round pick for Bulis, he takes it. Why? Because Bulis walks on July 1st anyway.

Maybe Gainey could trade Bulis to another team wanting to do the same with a UFA... and those two teams get first shot at signing the guys they obtain.

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05-08-2006, 05:41 PM
  #20
Pere Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13
Players don't become UFA's untill July 1st, if I'm not mistaken? Therefore, Pere Noel's theory is an interesting one. Even if Gainey is offered a 6th round pick for Bulis, he takes it. Why? Because Bulis walks on July 1st anyway.

Maybe Gainey could trade Bulis to another team wanting to do the same with a UFA... and those two teams get first shot at signing the guys they obtain.
hehe... We have never seen that one happened yet, but that's an interesting idea! Trade two future UFAs for each other.

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05-08-2006, 05:52 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13
Players don't become UFA's untill July 1st, if I'm not mistaken? Therefore, Pere Noel's theory is an interesting one. Even if Gainey is offered a 6th round pick for Bulis, he takes it. Why? Because Bulis walks on July 1st anyway.

Maybe Gainey could trade Bulis to another team wanting to do the same with a UFA... and those two teams get first shot at signing the guys they obtain.
Nobody disputes the idea that Gainey could swap Bulis for a draft pick. The problem is: What current NHL GM (that means not Reggie Houle and not Mike Milbury, and not Mike O'Connell) would go out of their way to trade an asset for the "right to negotiate first" with Jan Bulis's agent?

If THIS is to become common practice in the new NHL, why would GM's start with Jan Bulis? Why wouldn't they take a stab at Joe Sakic? Or Marc Savard? Or Patrik Elias? Heck, I think a team is more likely to trade a first rounder just for the right to talk to Sakic early, despite his age and likelihood of remaining in Colorado, than dealing a late-round pick for Bulis.

But that's just me.

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05-08-2006, 05:59 PM
  #22
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Lets wait to see where Bulis signs, and get him back by giving that team Zednik

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05-08-2006, 06:05 PM
  #23
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In the new CBA , teams aren't getting compensatory picks for losing UFA's . Correct me if im wrong . I think it would be a good idea to package both of them . Bulis/Zednik/D for Derek Morris

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05-08-2006, 06:07 PM
  #24
Pere Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87
Nobody disputes the idea that Gainey could swap Bulis for a draft pick. The problem is: What current NHL GM (that means not Reggie Houle and not Mike Milbury, and not Mike O'Connell) would go out of their way to trade an asset for the "right to negotiate first" with Jan Bulis's agent?

If THIS is to become common practice in the new NHL, why would GM's start with Jan Bulis? Why wouldn't they take a stab at Joe Sakic? Or Marc Savard? Or Patrik Elias? Heck, I think a team is more likely to trade a first rounder just for the right to talk to Sakic early, despite his age and likelihood of remaining in Colorado, than dealing a late-round pick for Bulis.

But that's just me.
I agree with you... and that's why I am talking about having both players involved in a deal.

The value proposition is : Get Zednik now, he comes fairly cheap, can give you 20-30 goals... and get a much better chance to sign Bulis, another 20 goal scorer.

That's a value proposition that could be interesting for a team that has little depth on the forward side.

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05-08-2006, 06:14 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13
Players don't become UFA's untill July 1st, if I'm not mistaken? Therefore, Pere Noel's theory is an interesting one. Even if Gainey is offered a 6th round pick for Bulis, he takes it. Why? Because Bulis walks on July 1st anyway.

Maybe Gainey could trade Bulis to another team wanting to do the same with a UFA... and those two teams get first shot at signing the guys they obtain.
It would be meaningless. The other team wouldn't even have a headstart if Bulis didn't like the team. Even if he did, he'd wait to see if he received better offers. Therefore, no one would give even a ninth round pick for the temporary rights to Bulis until July 1. The same applies to UFAs temporarily placed with Montréal.

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