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Vancouver-Calgary thought

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Old
11-03-2003, 08:54 AM
  #1
xtra
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Vancouver-Calgary thought

Now i am not 100% on this but supposedly Clagary is looking for a puck moving dman(Berard Rumors) and well the Canucks need a strong Crease Clearing dman so i thought that this would make them good partners apart from the Divison Crap. but since divison trades do happen(cal-col 2yrs ago) i figured why not see what everyone thinks of this idea


To Van: Denis Gauthier

to CAL: Brent Sopel + R.J. Umberger.


i think that this is close to fair maybe even overpaying on the nucks part but this should be a good building block for a trade. maybe with picks being tossed in from either side.

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Old
11-03-2003, 09:02 AM
  #2
Mizral
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While I'm no longer afraid of trading with Calgary..

I have to say no way. Denis Gauthier makes more than $1 million, which would mean we would be taking on more salary. Arguably, Gauthier and Sopel are even up right there, though in the Canucks system, I'd prefer Sopel. Gauthier isn't really needed, plus, Gauthier is a left-side defenseman, not a right side.

Umberger is a pretty valuable throw in!

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11-03-2003, 09:59 AM
  #3
Peter Griffin
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Big 'no thanks' from the Canucks' side.

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Old
11-03-2003, 10:17 AM
  #4
GKJ
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Sopel >>> Gauthier

And the Canucks give up Umberger too?

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Old
11-03-2003, 10:27 AM
  #5
xtra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Sopel >>> Gauthier

And the Canucks give up Umberger too?

I agree with that too but with everyones Hard-on for hating sopel i figured i might as well add in Umberger cause the majority can't be wrong.


my original idea was

Sopel +4th
for
Gauthier +2nd

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11-03-2003, 10:44 AM
  #6
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtra
my original idea was

Sopel +4th
for
Gauthier +2nd
That's a little better, but even then, Sopel is a great fit for the Canucks. He's cheap(signed for another 2 years plus an option), is a RH'ed shot, and has only been getting better the last couple seasons. Sure he makes some really boneheaded plays at times, but that is something that you usually have to live deal with when giving fairly young d-men loads of ice-time(this is really only his 3rd NHL season).

Gauthier brings a nice physical element that the Canucks could use(although I think Bryan Allen can fill that role nicely), but he really is only a 5th d-man. He's not very mobile, average defensively and can't play the point on the PP like Sopel. I'd rather hang onto Sopel if given the choice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtra
I agree with that too but with everyones Hard-on for hating sopel i figured i might as well add in Umberger cause the majority can't be wrong.
Yes they can. This board is filled with a sort of Sopel-hatred. But the fact is, he plays on the top pairing of one of the best teams in the league, that's saying something...

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Old
11-03-2003, 10:44 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtra
I agree with that too but with everyones Hard-on for hating sopel i figured i might as well add in Umberger cause the majority can't be wrong.


my original idea was

Sopel +4th
for
Gauthier +2nd
That was your original idea and then you took out the fourth, added in Umberger and then took out the second rounder on Calgary's part?

No offense man, but you shouldnt drink during the day.

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Old
11-03-2003, 11:04 AM
  #8
Herby
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Umberger is not a valuable throw in, he is a 21 year old player who has never played a game of pro hockey, who if not signed by June 1st of 04 will become an UFA. The only way Umberger gains value is if Burke signs him and then trades him, I don't see teams trading for him and ris losing him for nothing in a few months.

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11-03-2003, 11:08 AM
  #9
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Althought I like the deal from Calgary's point of view, I can't see how Vancouver could like this deal at all. Sopel is an offensive minded D man, something Calgary could definitely use. The Flames have Dion Phaneuf coming up next season, who not only hits like Gauthier, but has much more skill. Anyway, the Canucks will not do this trade.

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Old
11-03-2003, 11:46 AM
  #10
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby
Umberger is not a valuable throw in, he is a 21 year old player who has never played a game of pro hockey, who if not signed by June 1st of 04 will become an UFA. The only way Umberger gains value is if Burke signs him and then trades him, I don't see teams trading for him and ris losing him for nothing in a few months.
Umberger's bottom line value is a 2nd round draft pick... if he becomes a UFA than the Canucks (or any team that has his rights then) get a 2nd round pick as compensation... this is guarenteed - so he's not totally worthless - unless you consider a 2nd round pick worthless.

but his value is probably a bit higher than that - given that what he's asked for in a new contract isn't that ridiculous - and he's never said he'd refuse to sign... so if a team does trade for him, they will probably have a sign and trade in place before the deal is official.

I'd think that he'd still be able to get a pretty good soon to be UFA player by the deadline...

his situation isn't all that different from Gleason's - who could have gone back into this year's draft if he didn't sign with the Kings - with the Kings receiving a 2nd round pick as compensation (as they held his rights after the deal)... such an asset was able to net Smolinski at the deadline last season - and this was before a sign and trade took place - the Kings took the risk of losing him and receiving the 2nd rounder, if they couldn't sign him.

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Old
11-03-2003, 12:46 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakin' Saprykin
Why would people hate Sopel he's such a cutey!

Yeah, I guess "hate" was too strong of a word. Could anyone really hate a face like this?






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Old
11-03-2003, 12:47 PM
  #12
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Haven't the Canucks and the Flames ever only made a deal once? Stern for Murzyn?

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing Sopel go for Denis Gauthier, more salary or not. A Gauthier or Witt type defender--who's a likeable locker room guy that plays a hard-nosed style on the ice--is what the Vancouver blueline needs. However, Sopel + Umberger is too much to pay, agreed.

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11-03-2003, 12:48 PM
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I take the first offer and run like mad from the second.

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Old
11-03-2003, 01:23 PM
  #14
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I don't take either offer. The fact that a lot of idiot fans in Vancouver don't like Sopel does not diminish his value, or does it carry any bearing whatsoever. He is a young defenseman, learning in the best way possible. Playing on the top defensive pairing on the best team in the league. By this time in two years people will call for a death by stoning for making that proposal.

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Old
11-03-2003, 01:30 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StilesBC
Playing on the top defensive pairing on the best team in the league.
No he's still a canuck

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11-03-2003, 04:51 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
No he's still a canuck
The only thing worse than a tree hugger is a leaf hugger.

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11-03-2003, 04:59 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtra
Now i am not 100% on this but supposedly Clagary is looking for a puck moving dman(Berard Rumors) and well the Canucks need a strong Crease Clearing dman so i thought that this would make them good partners apart from the Divison Crap. but since divison trades do happen(cal-col 2yrs ago) i figured why not see what everyone thinks of this idea


To Van: Denis Gauthier

to CAL: Brent Sopel + R.J. Umberger.


i think that this is close to fair maybe even overpaying on the nucks part but this should be a good building block for a trade. maybe with picks being tossed in from either side.
Dennis G would be the 5th or 6th d-man on the nucks

This is the only place I know that seems to think Dennis G is of great importance and of great skill. I have seen him play about a houndred times and I am not imrpessed.

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Old
11-03-2003, 05:12 PM
  #18
jumptheshark
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I like my nickname

I know the nucks are not getting him, theey would have no use for him. The point I was trying to make is that I feal asthough certain people have Den(one n) G a little overratted

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Old
11-03-2003, 05:24 PM
  #19
Mizral
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Cannon,

Weren't you the Flames Fan who staunchly boasted that Denis Gauthier was better than Marek Malik?

Malik is now a +14, by the way

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Old
11-03-2003, 05:30 PM
  #20
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Brent Sopel is garbage. The Canucks can keep him, as far as I'm concerned.

He has decent offensive skills and instincts but is possibly the worst and most unreliable defenseman in his own zone in the entire league.

Umberger is a marginal prospect who is being a contract *****. No go there.

Just a whole lot of blah.

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Old
11-03-2003, 05:44 PM
  #21
Mizral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon71
How fair of you! You take a comment of mine from when Malik was a 'Cane castaway for Druken and company. Malik has turned things around with the Canucks, there's no doubt about that. But he hasn't yet played a full season's worth of games with the Canucks, so judgement is still premature. Plus/minus stat alone is deceiving, though he has been playing well. Gauthier would probably have a very good +/- if he were on a more offensively talented and minded team like the Canucks -- with the Flames he's still one of the better if not the best +/- on the team.

That being said, Malik seems to do well with winning teams -- he did the same with Carolina when they made it deep into the playoffs (+8).
Just trying to point that, like all of us, we can be accused of being homers. Maybe you like Gauthier more than a more unbiased fan would?

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Old
11-03-2003, 05:47 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StilesBC
The only thing worse than a tree hugger is a leaf hugger.
You should hug a leaf sometime,you'll never go back to those big slimey overgrown goldfish again. :moon:

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11-03-2003, 05:51 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon71


As far as I am concerned, Sopel doesn't play for the Canucks. He plays for the 29 other teams in the NHL since he continually passes to them and coughs the puck up to them every chance he gets. Sopel is far more useful to the Flames (and every other team in the NHL) as a "Canuck".

NO DEAL.

Sopel does suffer from brain cramps in his own zone, but to say that he helps out the opposition more than he helps out his own team is ignorant. Sopel is a key contributer on the PP and routinely plays around 20 min/game on the top pairing with Ohlund against the top players in the league. If Sopel was such a liability as you make him out to be, he wouldn't be getting the type of ice-time that he does. Aside from his giveaways(which are usually a result of him trying to do too much, hopefully he'll grow out of this like Jovo has), he isn't that bad of a defensmen. He's usually in good position, will use his size(although he could definitely be more physical) and usually knows what to do when he gets the puck. His giveaways are scrutinized far too closely on these boards IMO. I mean, nobody downplayed Sergei Zubov when he lead the league in giveaways two seasons ago, hardly anyone even mentioned it...

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Old
11-03-2003, 05:52 PM
  #24
Patty Roy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Umberger is a pretty valuable throw in!
Strange...you didn't think much of throwing Tomas Plekanec into a proposal last week...

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Old
11-03-2003, 06:57 PM
  #25
Shin Pad
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At the moment, why would the Canucks want to make any kind of a move. They are sailing along just fine - why fix it if it ain't broke?

As for the Flames, they aren't doing badly either. There is no panic to make any kind of a move yet.

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