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Vancouver-Calgary thought

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Old
11-03-2003, 06:07 PM
  #26
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon71
I consider this a personal attack based upon Saku K.'s defninition of such.
How is that a personal attack? Did I call you a name?

Quote:
He played with Ohlund on and off last season. Ohlund is about the only defenceman on the Canucks roster that Sopel actually can play with without being a complete and total defensive liability (where the ice-time comes from). And that's only because Ohlund is so solid in his own end that he does most of the grudge work while Sopel remains his useless self. When he was played with more offensively minded defenceman like Jovo -- oh man did Sopel ever look bad.
Sopel played about 85% of his 5-on-5 ice-time last season with Ohlund, the only time he didn't play with Matty 5-on-5 was when Ohlund was injured. Don't try to tell me that they played "on and off", they didn't, they were the Canucks most consistent pairing. Yes Sopel plays his best with Ohlund, but why shouldn't he? That's a pretty lame argument. Sopel is more of an offensive d-man so when pairing him with another offensive guy in Jovo and of course his play is going to suffer.

Anyway, if you think that Sopel is a useless player, well, then any ammount of me arguing isn't going to change your oppinion...

Quote:
Yes Sopel had good offensive numbers last season. But his defensive limitations when not playing with Ohlund are just too darn scary to even consider trading for him.
Sopel looked decent when paired briefly with Malik and Allen last year, players who are not even close to Ohlund in terms of overall play.

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Old
11-04-2003, 01:00 AM
  #27
cyrisweb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtra
I
Sopel +4th
for
Gauthier +2nd
If Vancouver didn't have Allen then I would most likely accept that trade. But at this point in time there is not room on the Canucks for Allen AND Gauthier.

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Old
11-04-2003, 04:59 AM
  #28
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon71
And yet you adamantly claim that he was not paired with Ohlund on and off? I don't follow. He was either with Ohlund or he wasn't, if he was with him for only part of the year then that fits the definition of "on and off". What purpose is there in arguing that point anyway?
actually the way I read it, when you say that he plays "on and off" with a player, it seems like he partners with other players, while his usual partner is still playing.

Fact is that the *only* time that Sopel didn't play with Ohlund for the last 2 years (and so far this year), has been when Ohlund is out of the lineup - otherwise he's *always* playing with Ohlund.

It's like saying that Iginla plays on and off with Conroy - and I don't watch every Flames game, but from the ones I've seen he's always out there with him, unless one of the two has been injured.

I do agree to a point about Sopel's defensive play though... he certainly does need to improve there... great thing is that he's so far doing just that, and when you combine it with his awesome defensive play of two seasons ago (believe he was a +21?) it still leaves a lot of hope that last season was just an off season for him - and our best dmen, like Jovo and Ohlund have had their off seasons too, especially when they were carrying the same amount of experience in the NHL overall as Sopel was last year.

This year, so far at least, we've all seen a much better Sopel... his offense is still there, but so far he's been better defensively (after the first couple games at least)... still making the odd turnovers, but he'll have games like last night, when you don't even notice him out there - which is exactly what you want from him in the defensive zone.

As for trading... why would the Canucks even bother right now?? with all the holes and concerns that other fans seem to think we have, guys like Sopel (and everyone else) are still part of the great chemistry we have... teams playing like we are right now don't make trades - and for good reason!

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Old
11-04-2003, 07:57 AM
  #29
ginner classic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon71
Mizral, take this for what it's worth:

Gauthier over the last three seasons: +17 (with a team with a -42 goal differential last year)
Malik over the last three seasons: +24 (+20 of that with a team with a +56 goal differential last year)

Does that put it into a little bit better perspective?
That analysis is just shy of useless. You cannot use team goal differential as a comparative to plus minus without mentioning that the stat is misleading. If you are scored against while on the PK you do not collect a -....opposite is true for the PP. So if you want to know the team's true +/- you have to net out PP goals for and PP goals against first. I think you will find the Canucks were probably barely a + team last year. +/- only comes into play during even strength or if a shorthanded goal is scored.

EDIT: The canucks had 25 more PP goals for than against...so subtract 25 and you get a +31 not + 56.

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Old
11-04-2003, 02:06 PM
  #30
Matty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon71
He played with Ohlund on and off last season. Ohlund is about the only defenceman on the Canucks roster that Sopel actually can play with without being a complete and total defensive liability (where the ice-time comes from). And that's only because Ohlund is so solid in his own end that he does most of the grudge work while Sopel remains his useless self. When he was played with more offensively minded defenceman like Jovo -- oh man did Sopel ever look bad.

Yes Sopel had good offensive numbers last season. But his defensive limitations when not playing with Ohlund are just too darn scary to even consider trading for him.
LOL. Sopel's worst NHL stretch came last season when Jovo was out. Both Sopel and Ohlund were pretty bad but Sopel especially. However, they still played together.

In fact, when Sopel didn't play with Ohlund (and only because Matty was injured), he looked fine. He was generally paired with Allen or Malik during that stretch.

As for him being terrible defensively...that point is highly exaggerated on these boards. In 232 NHL games played he is a +22. In fact, last season was his only minus time in the NHL. And the majority of that minus came while playing with Ohlund while Jovo was out...so I'm not sure where you get "he can only play well with Ohlund'.

He ain't no stay-at-home stud but he is not the one dimensional defensman people make him out to be.

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