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Old
11-05-2003, 05:43 PM
  #1
No Quarter
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Comrie Question

Just out of curiousity, what would it take from the Pens to get Comrie in a deal?
Seriously, excluding Whitney, Koltsov, Welch and Orpik.

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11-05-2003, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy page
Just out of curiousity, what would it take from the Pens to get Comrie in a deal?
Seriously, excluding Whitney, Koltsov, Welch and Orpik.
well, why should we give you Comrie if you won't give us any of those guys? I mean, he's better than all those combined. But seriously, mabye Kraft because he's a centerman, and probably Fata or Orpik.

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11-05-2003, 05:48 PM
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Your first round pick this year, of course ;-)

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Old
11-05-2003, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiler94
well, why should we give you Comrie if you won't give us any of those guys? I mean, he's better than all those combined. But seriously, mabye Kraft because he's a centerman, and probably Fata or Orpik.
Kraft sucks. From pittsburgh if you weren't including any of your good prospects, we would expect your #1 simple as that.

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11-05-2003, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Kraft sucks. From pittsburgh if you weren't including any of your good prospects, we would expect your #1 simple as that.

I'd do that unless we get a top 5 pick.
Also what kinda money is he looking for? Better yet what would he settle for?

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11-05-2003, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy page
I'd do that unless we get a top 5 pick.
Also what kinda money is he looking for? Better yet what would he settle for?
See, that's the money question...nobody really knows for sure. There's been speculation all over the place. If I had to speculate, I'd say anywhere from 3 to 4 million/yr.

I concur with the others, if your team's 1st round pick isn't involved then I'm not interested.

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Old
11-05-2003, 06:42 PM
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ramzi abid +++

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Old
11-05-2003, 06:45 PM
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Comrie better than Whitney, Koltsov, Welch and Orpik combined???

You wouldn't deal with the Pens unless it was for a shot at Ovechkin??

This board is rapidly turning into a very large board of Comrie homers. You guys are really setting yourselves up to be disappointed with this deal.

Granted, Comrie is young and skilled, and 30 goal scorers don't grow on trees. But he is also under-sized, a defensive liability and this holdout has brought out some serious character issues.

While I don't feel that we will be getting a return like the Savard deal, I can guarantee we won't get half of what some of the locals here are asking for.

This board will not be a fun place for you guys immediately following the Comrie deal, because this board will be full of posters from other boards stopping by to say "I told you so. Comrie didn't end up being worth half as much as you homers thought."

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11-05-2003, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
Comrie better than Whitney, Koltsov, Welch and Orpik combined???

You wouldn't deal with the Pens unless it was for a shot at Ovechkin??

This board is rapidly turning into a very large board of Comrie homers. You guys are really setting yourselves up to be disappointed with this deal.

Granted, Comrie is young and skilled, and 30 goal scorers don't grow on trees. But he is also under-sized, a defensive liability and this holdout has brought out some serious character issues.

While I don't feel that we will be getting a return like the Savard deal, I can guarantee we won't get half of what some of the locals here are asking for.

This board will not be a fun place for you guys immediately following the Comrie deal, because this board will be full of posters from other boards stopping by to say "I told you so. Comrie didn't end up being worth half as much as you homers thought."
You don't deal something unless it's worth your while in return. If Lowe gives Comrie away, he's doing serious harm here. There are certain things we expect in return, and if we can't get em, we shouldn't deal. I'd close with what's becoming my trademark line on anything Comrie, but you've probably all read it already.

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Old
11-05-2003, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
You don't deal something unless it's worth your while in return. If Lowe gives Comrie away, he's doing serious harm here. There are certain things we expect in return, and if we can't get em, we shouldn't deal. I'd close with what's becoming my trademark line on anything Comrie, but you've probably all read it already.
Boondock is 100% right here.

While Comrie is going to give you guys a good return, it's going to be a good return IE: Alexei Frolov or Patrick Stefan & a 'meh' prospect. It's not going to be the Pens 1st round pick, nor will it be Simon Gagne, Nik Antropov, Henrik Zetterberg, or Richard Zednik however.

Why? Well, Comrie as a signed player, playing well during a season could bring back a Gagne-type. However, an unsigned Comrie loses value. Plus, consider the 'other' problems that have propped up. More value lossed. His $4 million dollar money demands - way more value lost. So many mitigating factors will result in 'lost value' when it comes to a Comrie trade. Does this mean Lowe is screwed? No. But he can easily screw himself.

I am expecting something similar to the Weight deal. Probobly two players that are good youngers, but probobly not top 6 forwards or top 4 defensemen. Or maybe one player who is somewhat borderline top 6 (Frolov & Stefan as I mentioned) and a later round draft pick. I think Boondock, along with most around the league feel that's around the value Comrie has right now in a trade.

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11-05-2003, 07:15 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
Comrie better than Whitney, Koltsov, Welch and Orpik combined???

You wouldn't deal with the Pens unless it was for a shot at Ovechkin??

This board is rapidly turning into a very large board of Comrie homers. You guys are really setting yourselves up to be disappointed with this deal.

Granted, Comrie is young and skilled, and 30 goal scorers don't grow on trees. But he is also under-sized, a defensive liability and this holdout has brought out some serious character issues.

While I don't feel that we will be getting a return like the Savard deal, I can guarantee we won't get half of what some of the locals here are asking for.

This board will not be a fun place for you guys immediately following the Comrie deal, because this board will be full of posters from other boards stopping by to say "I told you so. Comrie didn't end up being worth half as much as you homers thought."
Homers? What would you take from Pittsburgh if they weren't offering and decent prospects or a good draft pick? Not like they have much talent on their team. Morozov, and Straka wouldn't be coming back, so the trade would be pointless.

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11-05-2003, 07:57 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
His $4 million dollar money demands - way more value lost.
I keep hearing people throw this 4 Million dollar demand around fast and loose...could some PLEASE point me to where either Comrie or Winter have stated this? As far as I know, NOBODY knows for sure what Comrie wants for salary. The only thing we do know for sure is that he doesn't want what Lowe is offering.

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11-05-2003, 08:04 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
I keep hearing people throw this 4 Million dollar demand around fast and loose...could some PLEASE point me to where either Comrie or Winter have stated this? As far as I know, NOBODY knows for sure what Comrie wants for salary. The only thing we do know for sure is that he doesn't want what Lowe is offering.
It popped up first in a Florida newspaper on Oct. 26 (from Spector's):

FT. LAUDERDALE SUN-SENTINEL: Michael Russo reports of speculation Mike Comrie could be dealt to the Atlanta Thrashers, however, he correctly notes the club is having no trouble scoring thus far and doubts he'll wind up there. Russo also disputes reports of Comrie going to the Florida Panthers, citing the fact the centre is believed seeking over $4 million per season, too rich for the Panthers blood. He believes the New Jersey Devils might be a good fit.

The next day Joanne Ireland used it in the Journal, and since then I think the journalists have been using each other as sources, assuming the local reporter knew what she was talking about. The Comrie camp is yet to mention any number at all.

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11-05-2003, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan
It popped up first in a Florida newspaper on Oct. 26 (from Spector's):

FT. LAUDERDALE SUN-SENTINEL: Michael Russo reports of speculation Mike Comrie could be dealt to the Atlanta Thrashers, however, he correctly notes the club is having no trouble scoring thus far and doubts he'll wind up there. Russo also disputes reports of Comrie going to the Florida Panthers, citing the fact the centre is believed seeking over $4 million per season, too rich for the Panthers blood. He believes the New Jersey Devils might be a good fit.

The next day Joanne Ireland used it in the Journal, and since then I think the journalists have been using each other as sources, assuming the local reporter knew what she was talking about. The Comrie camp is yet to mention any number at all.
Yeah, that's kinda how I thought it started. Thanks for the info Allan.

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Old
11-05-2003, 08:10 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan
It popped up first in a Florida newspaper on Oct. 26 (from Spector's):

FT. LAUDERDALE SUN-SENTINEL: Michael Russo reports of speculation Mike Comrie could be dealt to the Atlanta Thrashers, however, he correctly notes the club is having no trouble scoring thus far and doubts he'll wind up there. Russo also disputes reports of Comrie going to the Florida Panthers, citing the fact the centre is believed seeking over $4 million per season, too rich for the Panthers blood. He believes the New Jersey Devils might be a good fit.

The next day Joanne Ireland used it in the Journal, and since then I think the journalists have been using each other as sources, assuming the local reporter knew what she was talking about. The Comrie camp is yet to mention any number at all.
Joanne Ireland is by far the worst Sports Journalist in Edmonton. She has mistakes in her columns every single day and never has her info right.

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Old
11-05-2003, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Boondock is 100% right here.

While Comrie is going to give you guys a good return, it's going to be a good return IE: Alexei Frolov or Patrick Stefan & a 'meh' prospect. It's not going to be the Pens 1st round pick, nor will it be Simon Gagne, Nik Antropov, Henrik Zetterberg, or Richard Zednik however.

Why? Well, Comrie as a signed player, playing well during a season could bring back a Gagne-type. However, an unsigned Comrie loses value. Plus, consider the 'other' problems that have propped up. More value lossed. His $4 million dollar money demands - way more value lost. So many mitigating factors will result in 'lost value' when it comes to a Comrie trade. Does this mean Lowe is screwed? No. But he can easily screw himself.

I am expecting something similar to the Weight deal. Probobly two players that are good youngers, but probobly not top 6 forwards or top 4 defensemen. Or maybe one player who is somewhat borderline top 6 (Frolov & Stefan as I mentioned) and a later round draft pick. I think Boondock, along with most around the league feel that's around the value Comrie has right now in a trade.
What kind of software do you use to detect all the "comrie is not all that" posts? Im fairly new to this place, but on more than one occasion Ive noticed you popping up Out of nowhere to agree with someone on "hes actually not that good", "he wont fetch that much", ... and so on.
I agree that he is getting over-hyped, but some of these proposals are getting ridiculous. How is he going to fetch a Weight type return? What kind of a gun does KLowe have to his head concerning this trade? Is the team 2-9? Are the fans screaming bloody murder because of what goes on the ice every game?
Not really. (Although they are no where near the Gold-like Canucks....)

In fact, most fans are behind letting him sit as long as he wants (or someone overpays.)
Diminishing asset? But if we get crap for him (Or close to crap), how good of an asset was he to begin with?

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11-05-2003, 09:11 PM
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Ive been posting Pittsburg/ Edmonton trades the past 3 months. This si a trade that I think helps both sides.

To Edmonton
LW-Ramzi Abid ($450,000)
C-Milan Kraft ($850,000)
C-Kris Beech (???)
D-Dick Tarnstrom ($1,100,000)
1st Rounder

To Pittsburg
C-Mike Comrie (?$2,000,000?)
LW-Jason Chimera ($500,000)
RW-Georges Laraque ($1,275,000)
D-Jason Smith ($2,300,00)

Why it works for Edmonton-
Ramzi Abid is a big LW who likes to get in front of the net, he doesn't have Chimera's speed, but Chimera doesn't have Abid's consistency.

Milan Kraft is a low liability centre that we can use on our second line, might be the guy we've been looking for, but if he doesnt work out then he doesnt break the bank (see Jiri Dopita).

Kris Beech can be used in the farm right now until he finishes developing, he's been labelled a bust, but might just need a new atmosphere to help him find his stride.

Dick Tarndstrom is a puck moving PP specialist who'd free up some money in our blueline, this would also be a pre-emptive move, as Jason Smith will most likely be lost to free agency in the summer.

1st Rounder can turn out to be a high pick, possibly a lottery pick.

Why it works for Pittsburg-
Mike Comrie will be a perfect protege for Mario Lemieux, possesses speed, scoring and a great smile for the Pittsburg fans.

Jason Chimera would give Pittsburg the 2 fastest skaters in the league (Konstantin Koltsov), Chimera would be a horse on the left side taking Abid's spot, and maybe even getting sometime with Super Mario.

Georges Laraque will provide a dominant physical presence on an otherwise very soft and small Penguin squad, dominates the boards down low, and I personally think that if we was put on a line with Lemiuex that he could do all the work down low and get to a consistent 50 point level.

Jason Smith would automatically jump into the number 1 Dman spot in Pittsburg, very reliable defensively, something that Pittsburg is lacking as they regularly get outshot by large margins.

They get a 30 goal guy, the leagues top enforcer, a solid defenseman and a speedy winger with tons of potential.

We get the second line C we've been looking for, an upgrade in 2nd line left winger, a PP specialist, a C prospect, and a draft pick that may possibly, and I stress possibly turn out to be Mr. Ovechkin.

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Old
11-05-2003, 09:26 PM
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Well done there mowzie, a very well thought out and really entertaining 'what if' scenario. Blockbuster trades like this are ridiculously difficult to pull off though. I still think we get Comrie signed for a reasonable sum, and then deal him straight-up for a younger top 4 defensemen. Hopefully, my 2 bits doesn't take a byte out of your creative deal proposal.

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11-05-2003, 09:44 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
Ive been posting Pittsburg/ Edmonton trades the past 3 months. This si a trade that I think helps both sides.

To Edmonton
LW-Ramzi Abid ($450,000)
C-Milan Kraft ($850,000)
C-Kris Beech (???)
D-Dick Tarnstrom ($1,100,000)
1st Rounder

To Pittsburg
C-Mike Comrie (?$2,000,000?)
LW-Jason Chimera ($500,000)
RW-Georges Laraque ($1,275,000)
D-Jason Smith ($2,300,00)

Why it works for Edmonton-
Ramzi Abid is a big LW who likes to get in front of the net, he doesn't have Chimera's speed, but Chimera doesn't have Abid's consistency.

Milan Kraft is a low liability centre that we can use on our second line, might be the guy we've been looking for, but if he doesnt work out then he doesnt break the bank (see Jiri Dopita).

Kris Beech can be used in the farm right now until he finishes developing, he's been labelled a bust, but might just need a new atmosphere to help him find his stride.

Dick Tarndstrom is a puck moving PP specialist who'd free up some money in our blueline, this would also be a pre-emptive move, as Jason Smith will most likely be lost to free agency in the summer.

1st Rounder can turn out to be a high pick, possibly a lottery pick.

Why it works for Pittsburg-
Mike Comrie will be a perfect protege for Mario Lemieux, possesses speed, scoring and a great smile for the Pittsburg fans.

Jason Chimera would give Pittsburg the 2 fastest skaters in the league (Konstantin Koltsov), Chimera would be a horse on the left side taking Abid's spot, and maybe even getting sometime with Super Mario.

Georges Laraque will provide a dominant physical presence on an otherwise very soft and small Penguin squad, dominates the boards down low, and I personally think that if we was put on a line with Lemiuex that he could do all the work down low and get to a consistent 50 point level.

Jason Smith would automatically jump into the number 1 Dman spot in Pittsburg, very reliable defensively, something that Pittsburg is lacking as they regularly get outshot by large margins.

They get a 30 goal guy, the leagues top enforcer, a solid defenseman and a speedy winger with tons of potential.

We get the second line C we've been looking for, an upgrade in 2nd line left winger, a PP specialist, a C prospect, and a draft pick that may possibly, and I stress possibly, Mr. Ovechkin.

Other than losing our Captain, the toughest guy in the league, an Edmonton boy who scored 14 goals in his rookie year And comrie for
Abid, who could be another Moreau, Milan, who comes from the Cant Miss rookie class of Pavel Brendl, Sheldon Keefee and Patrick Stefan,
Beech, who you say may need a change of atmosphere (which is always a good sign), a 28 year old swedish defenceman who has 123 games to his name, one offensively good year, and a habit of overcommitting on a play at the worst possible times of a game.. And a possible shot at Ovechkin..........

there are alot of "What If's" in there....
If anything, if this monstrosity went through our guys would improve Pittsburg enough to make their 1st rounder not even in the top 5.


and in the end.... wouldnt we like at least a little quality coming back our way in a Comrie deal?

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Old
11-05-2003, 09:55 PM
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Mowzie
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mmmmm...windowlicker, what do you put in your humble pie, it tastes really, really good.

Your perspective is the half empty approach, and i took the half full approach.

Some factors that played out in my mind were that the Oilers will likely lose Jason Smith or Steve Staios after this year for nothing, so why not trade Smith, get a good and cheaper return, and use the money we save to sign Staios.

I think we'll both agree that Abid is an upgrade from Chimera.

Kraft and Beech are both gambles I agree.

I am one of thousands that feel that Laraque's negatives outweigh the positives.

Here is a more modest trade proposal though.

Abid
Kraft
Tarnstrom

FOR

Comrie
Chimera
Option to flip-flop 1st Rounders.

does that make more sense?

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11-05-2003, 10:17 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
mmmmm...windowlicker, what do you put in your humble pie, it tastes really, really good.

Your perspective is the half empty approach, and i took the half full approach.

Some factors that played out in my mind were that the Oilers will likely lose Jason Smith or Steve Staios after this year for nothing, so why not trade Smith, get a good and cheaper return, and use the money we save to sign Staios.

I think we'll both agree that Abid is an upgrade from Chimera.

Kraft and Beech are both gambles I agree.

I am one of thousands that feel that Laraque's negatives outweigh the positives.

Here is a more modest trade proposal though.

Abid
Kraft
Tarnstrom

FOR

Comrie
Chimera
Option to flip-flop 1st Rounders.

does that make more sense?
I guess the thing that scares me about the original proposal was the amount of forwards exchanged. We dont need forwards, we need good D. (to offset when Smith and/or Staios leave....or are indeed traded)
I agree that right now I wouldnt mind seeing Tarnstrom here, but hes just a temporary solution. Abid is an upgrade over Chimera of course, but after that things get murky. Kraft has the tools, but what will he do with them? The 1st round pick flip is good (and the thought of it would help on the nights either we or Pittsburg gets wasted)

In the end though.... they get someone like Comrie, and we get some projects (as a longtime Oiler fan, Im sick of projects, I want the real deal).

(Though moves of this nature would definetaly open the space up for guys like Rita, Salmo,... Sarno even. And that would be good)

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11-06-2003, 07:24 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
What kind of software do you use to detect all the "comrie is not all that" posts? Im fairly new to this place, but on more than one occasion Ive noticed you popping up Out of nowhere to agree with someone on "hes actually not that good", "he wont fetch that much", ... and so on.
I agree that he is getting over-hyped, but some of these proposals are getting ridiculous. How is he going to fetch a Weight type return? What kind of a gun does KLowe have to his head concerning this trade? Is the team 2-9? Are the fans screaming bloody murder because of what goes on the ice every game?
Not really. (Although they are no where near the Gold-like Canucks....)

In fact, most fans are behind letting him sit as long as he wants (or someone overpays.)
Diminishing asset? But if we get crap for him (Or close to crap), how good of an asset was he to begin with?
First off, when I say 'Weight Trade', I don't mean '1 bust, and 2 muckers'. But I mean a couple players with 'potential' but not a lot else. I am not sure Lowe will get an established played in return for Comrie, unless it's like a Stefan, a guy who's been around for a few years, but hasn't done a lot yet.

As for a 'gun to K-Lowe's head' - let's not forget, Rich Winter a few weeks ago said that they would use their salary demands to attempt to determine where Comrie will be traded too. In other words, they will use their salary demands as a sort of crude form of a 'No Trade Clause'. Furthermore, the Oilers, while not doing *terrible*, are not doing well either.

I think that we (fans in general) need to look at Comrie's value as good, but not great, or not exceptionally poor either.

By the way, in regards to the Pens trade there.. value looks okay, but I don't think the Penguins can afford to add payroll like that.

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11-06-2003, 07:42 AM
  #23
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I also don't think the Pens would really want to take on a guy like Jason Smith (who, as you said, would likely be lost to free agency anyway) AND give up their first-round pick. With Fleury already playing regularly, I'm sure they'd like to get another high pick to build on in the future, since the future will certainly not include Mario anyway.

If they needed to make the playoffs NOW, then the trade makes more sense, but I don't see the Pens in that situation.

Bart
(see - this is why I never post trade proposals...even schlubs like me would be taking shots at it!)

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Old
11-06-2003, 11:08 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
mmmmm...windowlicker, what do you put in your humble pie, it tastes really, really good.

Your perspective is the half empty approach, and i took the half full approach.

Some factors that played out in my mind were that the Oilers will likely lose Jason Smith or Steve Staios after this year for nothing, so why not trade Smith, get a good and cheaper return, and use the money we save to sign Staios.

I think we'll both agree that Abid is an upgrade from Chimera.

Kraft and Beech are both gambles I agree.

I am one of thousands that feel that Laraque's negatives outweigh the positives.

Here is a more modest trade proposal though.

Abid
Kraft
Tarnstrom

FOR

Comrie
Chimera
Option to flip-flop 1st Rounders.

does that make more sense?
Blech still bad. We need another left winger like a sore thumb. Who is Abid going to play ahead of? Smyth is a first line LW. Moreau is the third. Torres and Isbister are alternatively second and fourth line LW. I can't see Abid improving that mix or bettering any of them.

Kraft is a 1st round BUST. Let's put it this way. If Pittsburgh who is bleeding for proven talent isn't happy with Kraft, what does that say? I"ve heard that he has the ability but not the work ethic. That certainly doesn't fit in with the Oiler game plans.

Tarnstrom would help, but he is certainly not worth Comrie. He's 28 years old!!!

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