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Old
11-03-2003, 09:06 AM
  #1
MarleuFan
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Trade leverage

Hi, this is my first post here by the way.

San Jose actually has quite a bit of assets.

1) Kipprusoff
2) Harvey
3) Korolyuk
4) Damphousse

because Damphousse is quite expandable at this point.

Also, if you count Rathje, McClaren, Stewart, Hannah as our top 4, then
Fahey, Davison, Erhoff and Preising are 8 defensemen.

The Sharks can safely trade one(not Rathje). Maybe teams would be interested in Jim Fahey or Rob Davison. I would prefer trading Davison, so

5) Davison
But perhaps it is best to only trade the first 4 on my list for now.

Since Comrie is of intrest, how about Damphousse + Harvey for Comrie?

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11-03-2003, 09:33 AM
  #2
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Harvey, Korolyuk, and Kipper have little trade value so the Sharks wouldn't be able to get much from them. Damphousse could get the Sharks a little more, despite being a UFA after this year, but it still wouldn't be much more than a pick or prospect.
As for the Dmen, I think Davison could develop into a good 5 or 6th Dman who can bring an intense style of play.
I don't think Comrie for Damphousse and Harvey would work for Edmonton. Comrie could get them much more from other teams, like Patrick Stefan or Mike Cammalleri. Plus, Comrie wants 4mil a year which is rediculous. Gaborik only got 3+mil.
I saw somewhere that the Sharks and a lot of other teams are scouting the Capitals. I dont think the Sharks would want Bondra, Jagr, Lang, or Gonchar given the diretion they are headed in, so who could they be looking at?

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Old
11-03-2003, 09:44 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiiHockeyFan
Harvey, Korolyuk, and Kipper have little trade value so the Sharks wouldn't be able to get much from them. Damphousse could get the Sharks a little more, despite being a UFA after this year, but it still wouldn't be much more than a pick or prospect.
As for the Dmen, I think Davison could develop into a good 5 or 6th Dman who can bring an intense style of play.
I don't think Comrie for Damphousse and Harvey would work for Edmonton. Comrie could get them much more from other teams, like Patrick Stefan or Mike Cammalleri. Plus, Comrie wants 4mil a year which is rediculous. Gaborik only got 3+mil.
I saw somewhere that the Sharks and a lot of other teams are scouting the Capitals. I dont think the Sharks would want Bondra, Jagr, Lang, or Gonchar given the diretion they are headed in, so who could they be looking at?
You will be surprised about Kiprosoff's trade value right now. Yes there are many teams carrying 3 goalies and looking to trade one right now, but they are mostly expensive goalies like CuJo or Dafoe. As far as cheap backup goalies, which is what quite a few teams are lookin for, Kiprusoff makes some sence.

Also, I think they Gonchar will not be traded by Washington and besides him, there is no one the Sharks will take from their NHL roster. And whom would they want from San Jose?

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11-03-2003, 09:44 AM
  #4
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I would completly disagree, actually san jose does NOT have tradeable assets:

Kippursof: hasen't played all year, bascily nearly every team has a kippusroff already and he never has been able to proves he is ready for the #1 spot. Trade value is probably a 5th rounder at best. DW would LOVE to move him I betting he has found no takers.

Harvey: overpaid unproductive vet, perhaps some team close to the trading deadline will pick him up but really do you want to have a 4th liner making 1.3mil? Sharks will likely fetch a low level prospect, something to shore up the AHL squad for him. DW has wanted to move him since training camp, he cleared waivers I belive already; IE nobody wants that contract.

Korolyuk: early on but this looks like DW's first blunder as GM. He is taking a roster spot and is completly unproductive, dispite been giving 1st line action ealy on. He might turn something around but right now he looks worse than before he left for russia. DW would love some other GM to take this off his hands, again no takers. I bet there is actually no market for him as of now.

Damphousse has a no trade clause and used it last year, he wants to stay and I don't think any other team wants Vinnie at 4mil a year.

The rest of the assets are too young to trade, Rathje might be interesting but I think the team wants some stability still at the blue line. McLaren might just continue to play into a trade. Probably the best canidate is Ricci, who could really help a contender and the sharks still value his leadership so much they will probably be able to hold out until a "wow" offer comes along. I would not be suprised at all if something comes down in Feb/Mar and reech is gone.

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Old
11-03-2003, 10:04 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekrul
I would completly disagree, actually san jose does NOT have tradeable assets:

Kippursof: hasen't played all year, bascily nearly every team has a kippusroff already and he never has been able to proves he is ready for the #1 spot. Trade value is probably a 5th rounder at best. DW would LOVE to move him I betting he has found no takers.

Harvey: overpaid unproductive vet, perhaps some team close to the trading deadline will pick him up but really do you want to have a 4th liner making 1.3mil? Sharks will likely fetch a low level prospect, something to shore up the AHL squad for him. DW has wanted to move him since training camp, he cleared waivers I belive already; IE nobody wants that contract.

Korolyuk: early on but this looks like DW's first blunder as GM. He is taking a roster spot and is completly unproductive, dispite been giving 1st line action ealy on. He might turn something around but right now he looks worse than before he left for russia. DW would love some other GM to take this off his hands, again no takers. I bet there is actually no market for him as of now.

Damphousse has a no trade clause and used it last year, he wants to stay and I don't think any other team wants Vinnie at 4mil a year.

The rest of the assets are too young to trade, Rathje might be interesting but I think the team wants some stability still at the blue line. McLaren might just continue to play into a trade. Probably the best canidate is Ricci, who could really help a contender and the sharks still value his leadership so much they will probably be able to hold out until a "wow" offer comes along. I would not be suprised at all if something comes down in Feb/Mar and reech is gone.

Well, if you trade Harvey, you add some cash. And if you do add cash, many playoff-bound teams will want him for at least some toughness.

Korky - I agree, he blows. But Wilson was puting him on the power play to get some trade value out of him and when 3-4 teams will be riddled with injuries, we may get a late pick in return for him, not to mention that he can be an addition to a deal, not the main guy.

Damphousse (we'd also have to add cash) - I think he will agree to waive his no trade clause if the right offer is on the table.

Ricci - I would hate to see him go. I agree with what you said - he sould only be traded if another team makes a great offer.

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Old
11-03-2003, 11:41 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarleuFan
Well, if you trade Harvey, you add some cash. And if you do add cash, many playoff-bound teams will want him for at least some toughness.

Korky - I agree, he blows. But Wilson was puting him on the power play to get some trade value out of him and when 3-4 teams will be riddled with injuries, we may get a late pick in return for him, not to mention that he can be an addition to a deal, not the main guy.

Damphousse (we'd also have to add cash) - I think he will agree to waive his no trade clause if the right offer is on the table.

Ricci - I would hate to see him go. I agree with what you said - he sould only be traded if another team makes a great offer.
I also don't see the Sharks as having many tradable assets at this point.

the players mentioned though - for the most part - are vets that may be attractive closer to the deadline... with Harvey, Damphouse and Ricci on the last years of their deal, it's unlikely that the Sharks would have to take on any cash in moving them, since most of their salaries would have been paid out by the deadline anyways - but still, they likely aren't going to get you too much back.

if the Sharks are rebuilding though, it doesn't make much sense for them not to move these guys, for whatever they can get... even Ricci - he could walk to a contender in the offseason anyways - and at his age, wouldn't he rather be part of a contender now, than a rebuilding process in San Jose?

as for trade value - I'd guess it's comparitive to other soon to be UFAs at the deadline ... one example that IMO is a good comparison is from last year's deadline - Smolinski for Gleason... Smoke and Ricci are probably pretty comparitive in overall value... while one is more versatile, and a better fit on a top 6, the other is grittier and brings a better defensive game.

Gleason was a soon to be UFA if he couldn't sign with Ottawa - so his worth was that of at least a 2nd round pick (which would be compensation for LA should they not be able to sign him after the deal).

a soon to be UFA player won't get you much more than that IMO.

Thornton should also get some interest around the deadline (isn't he also a UFA after this season?).... and if things are going really bad - well the Avs might be interested in Nabakov...

the goaltending market though is really weak right now.

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Old
11-03-2003, 12:15 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
as for trade value - I'd guess it's comparitive to other soon to be UFAs at the deadline ... one example that IMO is a good comparison is from last year's deadline - Smolinski for Gleason... Smoke and Ricci are probably pretty comparitive in overall value... while one is more versatile, and a better fit on a top 6, the other is grittier and brings a better defensive game.

Gleason was a soon to be UFA if he couldn't sign with Ottawa - so his worth was that of at least a 2nd round pick (which would be compensation for LA should they not be able to sign him after the deal).
Trying to make a case for an Umberger for Ricci trade at the deadline?

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Old
11-03-2003, 12:35 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Trying to make a case for an Umberger for Ricci trade at the deadline?
YES! it makes too much sense for me not too!!

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11-03-2003, 01:12 PM
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I can't help but wonder if Marleu (Yes, I've misspelled that on purpose, as it is presented) is somebody's alter ego.

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11-03-2003, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Wey
I can't help but wonder if Marleu (Yes, I've misspelled that on purpose, as it is presented) is somebody's alter ego.

What do you mean Kevin? :-)

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Old
11-03-2003, 05:18 PM
  #11
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Damphousse and Harvey won't get you guys much. Edmonton wants a young player(s) for Comrie.

Damphousse could get you a prospect or a draft pick at the trade deadline. I wouldn't expect anything major, like a Comrie deal.

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11-03-2003, 05:38 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDonald19
Damphousse and Harvey won't get you guys much. Edmonton wants a young player(s) for Comrie.

Damphousse could get you a prospect or a draft pick at the trade deadline. I wouldn't expect anything major, like a Comrie deal.

Ok, so if
1) Damphousse for a 1st rounder late in the season
2) Harvey for 5th round pick
3) Kipprusoff for 3rd rounder

add to that a second round pick for losing Selanne
add to that a second round pick for losing the rights to Mark Messier (I guess we had rights to him for a couple of days)

and the Sharks will have
2 first round picks
3 second round picks
2 third round picks
1 fourth round pick
2 fifth round picks

Even without trading Ricci away, this sounds like the makings of a very interesting first day of the 2004 draft.

Also, which one of our 8 defensemen do you guys think will be traded?

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11-03-2003, 05:41 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarleuFan
Ok, so if
1) Damphousse for a 1st rounder late in the season
2) Harvey for 5th round pick
3) Kipprusoff for 3rd rounder

add to that a second round pick for losing Selanne
add to that a second round pick for losing the rights to Mark Messier (I guess we had rights to him for a couple of days)

and the Sharks will have
2 first round picks
3 second round picks
2 third round picks
1 fourth round pick
2 fifth round picks

Even without trading Ricci away, this sounds like the makings of a very interesting first day of the 2004 draft.

Also, which one of our 8 defensemen do you guys think will be traded?
I can't imagine a team giving up a first round pick just to have Damphousse for a playoff run. That seems like a bit much. But he might get you your fourth 2nd round pick.

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11-03-2003, 05:45 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDonald19
I can't imagine a team giving up a first round pick just to have Damphousse for a playoff run. That seems like a bit much. But he might get you your fourth 2nd round pick.
I was thinking that if Nolan brought in as mich as he did, is Damphousse that much of a drop off from Nolan?

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11-03-2003, 05:52 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarleuFan
I was thinking that if Nolan brought in as mich as he did, is Damphousse that much of a drop off from Nolan?
Whats Damphousse's contract status? I was thinking he was a UFA. If he has another year or two after this on a contract then a first round pick is more possible. If he is going to be a UFA then you can't get that much. He will only be helping a team for a month and then playoffs.

Last trade deadline UFA Steve Thomas to Anaheim was for a 5th round pick.

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11-03-2003, 05:58 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDonald19
Whats Damphousse's contract status? I was thinking he was a UFA. If he has another year or two after this on a contract then a first round pick is more possible. If he is going to be a UFA then you can't get that much. He will only be helping a team for a month and then playoffs.

Last trade deadline UFA Steve Thomas to Anaheim was for a 5th round pick.

I just had an idea. See what you think...if Bondra will get traded to a Western Conference team, the pressure will be on for other playoff-contending teams to pick up an offensive player. That said, we should trade Damphousse to a Western conference team instead of an Eastern Conference team. Why? Because he is very unlikely to come back to bite us in a serious way + he retires soon. But San Jose will take some of the future(prospect) from a Western Conference rival.

Sharks should be sneaky like that :-)

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11-03-2003, 06:25 PM
  #17
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If were in any hint of playoff contention down the stretch. Damphouse should stay. He is underated. I dont know why he's the center of trade talks every time. Yes he's 35 but if were doing good why ditch him? He has looked good this year. Yes I agree if were in the bottom of the barrel move him for a pick or prospect. Mabey a 2nd rounder, a high 1st rounder and three 2nd rounders gives a interesting day on the draft. We could move up mabey and steal Malkin for Crazed, Or my man Barker. Olesz would look great in teal as well.

If there wasnt a CBA coming next year I would jump on Bondra. Two years ago I was hoping the Sharks would move Ricci for Bondra.

Vinny and Kippersauf for Bondra = ME But it aint going to happen.

Heck Kippersauf could be moved for simply future considerations. Harvey I hope gets moved cheep. I think he well before the playoffs, for a team in need of a quick fix and a physical big hearted guy.

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11-04-2003, 07:26 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarleuFan
Ok, so if
1) Damphousse for a 1st rounder late in the season
2) Harvey for 5th round pick
3) Kipprusoff for 3rd rounder

add to that a second round pick for losing Selanne
add to that a second round pick for losing the rights to Mark Messier (I guess we had rights to him for a couple of days)

and the Sharks will have
2 first round picks
3 second round picks
2 third round picks
1 fourth round pick
2 fifth round picks

Even without trading Ricci away, this sounds like the makings of a very interesting first day of the 2004 draft.

Also, which one of our 8 defensemen do you guys think will be traded?
I don't think that Mark Messier's rights are going to get you a 2nd round pick... maybe a 4th rounder or 5th rounder is more likely.

comp picks start at #11 in the 2nd round, and then are given in order of asset value - 1) based on the player status - so first any 1st round pick not signed in the 2001 draft will either go back into the draft or be a UFA and the compensation is the same spot the pick was originally taken in the 1st round, to be given in the 2nd round... then 2) UFAs that left, but this all works on a scale based on points - and the points are reflective off various things, including salary, production and awards...

at the stage where Messier is at right now, he won't net much of a comp. pick back... his salary went down, and his production is also lower now... overall, my guess would be a 5th round pick.

Selanne should get a low 2nd, but that could go down to a 3rd rounder... Fedorov (higher salary more production) and Hatcher (Norris votes) should be higher comp. picks...

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11-04-2003, 07:50 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarleuFan
I was thinking that if Nolan brought in as mich as he did, is Damphousse that much of a drop off from Nolan?
Are you serious? Nolan is a powerforward...Damphousse is a setup man...Damphousse is like 4 times slower and about 4 or 5 years older as well.

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11-04-2003, 12:47 PM
  #20
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If they trade all these Guy's who will they put on the ice?

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11-04-2003, 01:07 PM
  #21
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Damphouse wouldve landed us Vaclav Neoderost from the Avs last year I heard. He does alot for us here in SJ. Much like Rathje, he's a guy who is always target as a guy to trade. I dont think we'll move him if were having a good year!

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11-04-2003, 01:23 PM
  #22
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I don't know if Damphousse does so much for the Sharks anymore. He has zero goals and I think if not now then definately towards the end of the season McCauley or Boyes (most likely MCCauley) could center that second line

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11-04-2003, 01:46 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDonald19
Whats Damphousse's contract status? I was thinking he was a UFA. If he has another year or two after this on a contract then a first round pick is more possible. If he is going to be a UFA then you can't get that much. He will only be helping a team for a month and then playoffs.
If Vinnie had another year or two left on his contract you wouldn't be able to give him away. Teams are going to shy away from older players with long-term deals. They don't want to be saddled with it counting against an eventual salary cap. Fortunately, Vinnie's a pending UFA, as is Ricci. Rent-a-players will have terrific value this season. The Sharks did well to unload Nolan last season. I don't think they'd get close to that value this year even if he had remained healthy, due to the remaining years on his contract.

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