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When Pilar comes back

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Old
11-03-2003, 12:05 PM
  #26
BlueAndWhite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army

Listen, I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Jackman because I like the guy and I think he has tons of potential to improve his game. But in my eyes he has been unquestionably our shakiest defenceman so far.

I agree with you completely.

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Old
11-03-2003, 12:14 PM
  #27
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pilar looked great on sunday
best defenseman in st.johns' easily

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Old
11-03-2003, 12:14 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
It's funny. No one was complaining about Marchment when he was paired with Kaberle in the preseason or Berg to start the regular season.

Meanwhile Kaberle was accused of having a slow start when he was paired with Jackman.

Listen, I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Jackman because I like the guy and I think he has tons of potential to improve his game. But in my eyes he has been unquestionably our shakiest defenceman so far.
Marchment's defencive zone covarage has been suspect since the pre-season even when he was pared with Kaberle. personally I think the parings should go as such..
Kaberle and McCabe
Jackman and Klee
Marchment and Berg.

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Old
11-03-2003, 12:27 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey24
Marchment's defencive zone covarage has been suspect since the pre-season even when he was pared with Kaberle. personally I think the parings should go as such..
Kaberle and McCabe
Jackman and Klee
Marchment and Berg.
I wouldn't mess with the Kaberle-Klee combo. Offense first with defense first. McCabe can be a physical defenseman but he's just not as defensively responsible as Klee who can cover for Kaberle when he often joins the rush, whereas McCabe also likes to rush. Once Pilar returns, unless a move is made either by trade or player assignments I believe the d will look like this:
Kaberle-Klee
McCabe-Pilar
Berg-Marchment/Jackman rotated with Jackman obviously spending the most time looking down.

Ideally I'd like to see Berg+ moved for something in return and allow Jackman the time to play (no way he'd clear waivers if sent down to develop) "OR" send a package of two defensemen for one better in return from a team looking to shed payroll.

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11-03-2003, 01:36 PM
  #30
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ERA - If you have a bad pitcher with a good defense behind him his ERA can be very low, he may give up hits, but if his defense is bailing him out of the trouble he gets into his ERA won't be as high as it should be. Now ever the best pitchers give up hits, if a great pitcher has a weak defense behind him those few hits he gives up could turn into more runs. ERA, GAA and +/- are stats that a WHOLE TEAM earns and aren't the ways to measure how well a player can play. And like I said, by your logic you would have to argue that Berg is the Leafs best defenseman and has been since last years playoffs.

Your not going to get a very good return for Berg or Marchment, and Jackman is just starting to pay off as a good defense, why trade any of them. And as for moving Kaberle or Jackman up. Kaberle has MUCH better offensive skills then Jackman. If the Leafs offense was a little soft I could see moving Jackman up, but what they need is more offensive production and Kaberle ist he guy to give them that.

Plus look at how this would affect the team in 2-5 years (assuming Kaberle adapts to the Winger position and does well there). The Leafs will still have Pilar, Jackman and maybe McCabe and/or Klee on the team (I can't see them keeping Berg or Marchment). Colaiacovo, Bell, Kondratiev and Harrison are all going to be ready to join the team within 2 years and a couple years after that White and Dohery will hopefully/probably be ready to step up as well, another log jam on defense. At the same time they are light on offensive prospects and only Stajan, Antropov (china doll), Sundin, Nolan and Tucker will undercontract in 2 years - so you have another log jam on defense and your a little light on offense, if you move Kaberle to winger the log jam won't be as bad, and he can help fill the holes that will be left on the offense.

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11-03-2003, 01:56 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
Plus look at how this would affect the team in 2-5 years (assuming Kaberle adapts to the Winger position and does well there). The Leafs will still have Pilar, Jackman and maybe McCabe and/or Klee on the team (I can't see them keeping Berg or Marchment). Colaiacovo, Bell, Kondratiev and Harrison are all going to be ready to join the team within 2 years and a couple years after that White and Dohery will hopefully/probably be ready to step up as well, another log jam on defense. At the same time they are light on offensive prospects and only Stajan, Antropov (china doll), Sundin, Nolan and Tucker will undercontract in 2 years - so you have another log jam on defense and your a little light on offense, if you move Kaberle to winger the log jam won't be as bad, and he can help fill the holes that will be left on the offense.
One thing you're overlooking is that Kaberle is 26 yrs old and is a very good defenseman. It's quite a gamble to think that he'd be able to shift his game and become a forward at this stage. If someone is going to be switched to up front it should rightly be one of the 19yr old prospects. Much easier to adapt to a new position earlier in your career.

Or if I may suggest, it would make a heck of alot more sense to just trade a defenseman for a forward? Prospect for prospect, or player for player. I mean, what is the point of turning Kaberle into a forward when you could probably just trade him to Edmonton for Comrie??

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Old
11-03-2003, 02:10 PM
  #32
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Quote:
when you could probably just trade him to Edmonton for Comrie??
Bite your tongue. Ugh.

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Old
11-03-2003, 02:15 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveshack2
I mean, what is the point of turning Kaberle into a forward when you could probably just trade him to Edmonton for Comrie??
I'm sure you are joshing.

That would be because smurf, selfish, disappearing forwards are so much more valuable than 24 minute a game defenders.

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11-03-2003, 02:56 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I'm sure you are joshing.

That would be because smurf, selfish, disappearing forwards are so much more valuable than 24 minute a game defenders.
Well I am joking in the sense that I consider the whole notion of turning Kaberle into a forward to be a joke.

I consider Kaberle much more valuable than Comrie. But I would never play him as a forward. I would sooner trade him for an *actual* forward than do that.

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Old
11-03-2003, 03:40 PM
  #35
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"It's quite a gamble to think that he'd be able to shift his game and become a forward at this stage"

If its very clear in practices or his first couple games that hes not taking to the new position just move him back. If you trade him for comrie and Comrie doesn't work out you can't switch back.

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11-03-2003, 03:50 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
"It's quite a gamble to think that he'd be able to shift his game and become a forward at this stage"

If its very clear in practices or his first couple games that hes not taking to the new position just move him back. If you trade him for comrie and Comrie doesn't work out you can't switch back.
But it's more likely that a forward that has scored 30goals to be a better forward than a defenseman that hasn't played up front in likely 10+ years. I'm not saying trading for Comrie is a good idea, but with our defense as it is, trading Kaberle for Pilar and Comrie is a pretty poor decision.

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Old
11-03-2003, 03:56 PM
  #37
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I agree, if they could get Comrie (maybe the Oilers would take Antropov for him and Bell or Kondratiev for him) he'd be a better guy to get, but if they don't (and probably won't, though it would be nice and really help Fergusons case as the new GM) moving Kaberle up wouldn't be a terrible idea IF he can adapt to playing foward.

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Old
11-03-2003, 04:00 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
I agree, if they could get Comrie (maybe the Oilers would take Antropov for him and Bell or Kondratiev for him) he'd be a better guy to get, but if they don't (and probably won't, though it would be nice and really help Fergusons case as the new GM) moving Kaberle up wouldn't be a terrible idea IF he can adapt to playing foward.
But our defense is not so hot and moving Kaberle for Pilar is a downgrade. Kaberle would likely bring in a nice young forward, likely one capable of doing more than the best expectations I'd have for a switch. Just doesn't make sense, IMO.

Another question, why is everyone so quick to clear a spot for Pilar? Other than 8-10 games in the playoffs, he hasn't shown me he's an NHL'er let alone one worth clearing space for. I'll certainly give him a shot considering that state of our blueline, but my hopes aren't that high

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Old
11-03-2003, 04:36 PM
  #39
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If Pilar comes back & is steady then it just helps the defence out more than anything else. I don't see why you would move a defender to forward if one guy comes back & plays good.It should just leave you with another good defender,a better blueline & rotating Jackman & Marchment as the sixth guy.

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Old
11-03-2003, 05:37 PM
  #40
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You can rotate, but then when you get a playing well you don't want to take him out, and when oyu finally put hte other back in, hes cold.

Depending on how Kaberle plays on the wing, and how Pilar plays on defense, that could be the solution that helps both the defense and the offense

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