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Greatest Defenceman of All Time #4

View Poll Results: Who is the greatest defencemen of all time? #4
Denis Potvin 26 27.66%
Ray Bourque 51 54.26%
Red Kelly 1 1.06%
Larry Robinson 4 4.26%
Chris Chelios 0 0%
Paul Coffey 2 2.13%
Nick Lidstrom 6 6.38%
Scott Stevens 0 0%
Slava Fetisov 3 3.19%
Brad Park 1 1.06%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-11-2006, 02:13 PM
  #1
canucksfan
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Greatest Defenceman of All Time #4

Since Harvey is winning by a lot of votes I am going to start this poll now. Harvey won with 45 votes and Brad Park will be added next. I am going to vote for Denis Potvin and add Pierre Pilote.

#1.Orr(89.26%)
#2.Shore(37.00%)
#3.Harvey(52.33%)

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Old
05-11-2006, 02:16 PM
  #2
Murphy
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Voted Brad Park, he never gets the respect. That and I met him a couple months ago.

Add Pierre Pilote

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Old
05-11-2006, 02:23 PM
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Bourque, add Park.

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05-11-2006, 02:26 PM
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God Bless Canada
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Smart move, canucksfan. When the results are that lopsided, it's only sensical to end it early and move on.

Add Pierre Pilote. Three Norris Trophies. Five straight years a first-team all-star. Three more times a second-team all-star. The only thing missing is a couple more Cup rings. (I believe he only won one). Not just a transitional defenceman from Harvey to Orr. I think it was #66 who compared Pilote to Potvin in the all-time draft forum.

Let the Bourque vs. Potvin debate begin. I'm going to pick Bourque. but it's not a cinch. He was an all-star every year from 1980 to 1996. A first-teamer for five straight years, and a first-teamer in every year in which he played 70 games from 1987 to 1996.

His performance in 1990, when he should have won the Hart, is the best I've seen from a defenceman in 20 years of watching the game. Doesn't have Potvin's playoff record, but Bourque was never a slouch in the playoffs either, and he did win a Cup, and lost to the Oilers dynasty twice.

The clincher for Bourque: not only was he a fine offensive defenceman, with a hard and incredibly accurate shot, and all-time great smarts, but he was fantastic defensively, too. Considered by many to be the best defensive defenceman in the league in the early 1990s. His endurance was incredible.

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05-11-2006, 02:33 PM
  #5
pappyline
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Vote Bourque, add Earl siebert

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05-11-2006, 02:34 PM
  #6
Double-Shift Lassé
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I went with Potvin, but it's a pick 'em race as I see it with Bourque. They are the next 2.

add Pilote

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05-11-2006, 02:43 PM
  #7
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I voted for Potvin...although I'll admit I am very biased. Potvin was so solid in all areas and played with an edge that I never saw in Bourque. I also feel that although the Islanders were a dominant team during his prime they never got the respect that they truly deserved and their star players suffer because of it. Bourque played most of his career on an original 6 team and never lacked for exposure.

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05-11-2006, 02:52 PM
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Ray Bourque and add Pierre Pilote

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05-11-2006, 02:58 PM
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I have Bourque and Potvin clearly above the rest in spots 4 & 5, certainly the two best post-Orr defenseman.

I think Potvin's peak was just a bit higher than Bourque's peak, but in the end the extra 600 games of excellence that Bourque gave trumps the slightly higher peak that Potvin had.

Ray Bourque by a smidge.

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05-11-2006, 03:12 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
Let the Bourque vs. Potvin debate begin. I'm going to pick Bourque. but it's not a cinch. He was an all-star every year from 1980 to 1996. A first-teamer for five straight years, and a first-teamer in every year in which he played 70 games from 1987 to 1996.
Don't forget the 4 Norris trophies in 5 years, 5 total. One of three players with 4 or more Norris trophies. Appeared in the playoffs every year except one, 17 straight years, 21 of 22 years. 1579 points in 1612 games.

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Old
05-12-2006, 06:26 AM
  #11
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Add Salming

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Old
05-12-2006, 09:30 AM
  #12
pickett04
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i voted Bourque.add pierre pilote.

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05-12-2006, 09:56 AM
  #13
doublejack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dafoomie
Don't forget the 4 Norris trophies in 5 years, 5 total. One of three players with 4 or more Norris trophies. Appeared in the playoffs every year except one, 17 straight years, 21 of 22 years. 1579 points in 1612 games.
That's soon to become four players with 4 or more Norris trophies, after Lidstrom wins it next month.

I'm quite shocked by the results of the poll so far. Ray was a great d-man, but top 4 all time? I don't see it. Personally I think he's neck-and-neck with Lidstrom. Definitely top 10, but not top 4.

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05-12-2006, 11:08 AM
  #14
dafoomie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
That's soon to become four players with 4 or more Norris trophies, after Lidstrom wins it next month.

I'm quite shocked by the results of the poll so far. Ray was a great d-man, but top 4 all time? I don't see it. Personally I think he's neck-and-neck with Lidstrom. Definitely top 10, but not top 4.
Name the 6 guys that are better than Bourque. Of an era of great defensemen (Potvin, Murphy, Chelios, Robinson, Leetch, Coffey, Housley, Wilson, Stevens, MacInnis), Bourque was the best of them all.

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05-12-2006, 11:24 AM
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Darth Milbury
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Actually, I'd rate Bourque well below both Potvin and Robinson. Potvin and Robinson could both dominate a game physically, and both were among the best defensive dmen of their eras.

Bourque was the best offensive dman of his time, but there were better defensive players and he never had the hitting game of Denis Potvin or Larry R.

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05-12-2006, 11:51 AM
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Psycho Papa Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Actually, I'd rate Bourque well below both Potvin and Robinson. Potvin and Robinson could both dominate a game physically, and both were among the best defensive dmen of their eras.

Bourque was the best offensive dman of his time, but there were better defensive players and he never had the hitting game of Denis Potvin or Larry R.
Ditto. I voted Potvin because he has a better chance of beating Bourque in this poll, but for me it would be a difficult decision between Robinson and Potvin as to who I would put at #4. Both excelled at every aspect of the game like no two players I have ever witnessed. Potvin had better offensive #'s, but Robinson has the best all-time +/-, including a season where he was +120 and in addition was never a minus player. On the other hand Potvin likely had more natural talent and had a nasty side to him that Robinson lacked.

Add Pilote.

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05-12-2006, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
I have Bourque and Potvin clearly above the rest in spots 4 & 5, certainly the two best post-Orr defenseman.

I think Potvin's peak was just a bit higher than Bourque's peak, but in the end the extra 600 games of excellence that Bourque gave trumps the slightly higher peak that Potvin had.

Ray Bourque by a smidge.
I agree with that. At their best Potvin may have been a little better, but Bourque was so great for so long.

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05-12-2006, 03:18 PM
  #18
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What about Leetch?

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05-12-2006, 03:40 PM
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Bluesfan1981
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Originally Posted by charlio lemieux
What about Leetch?
It's still a little early for Leetch

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05-12-2006, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Actually, I'd rate Bourque well below both Potvin and Robinson. Potvin and Robinson could both dominate a game physically, and both were among the best defensive dmen of their eras.

Bourque was the best offensive dman of his time, but there were better defensive players and he never had the hitting game of Denis Potvin or Larry R.
2nded on all accounts.

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05-12-2006, 04:31 PM
  #21
Kesler Kills Kommies
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Chris Pronger

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05-12-2006, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesfan1981
It's still a little early for Leetch
Over 1000 pts in his carreer.
5 x 20+ goals.
10 x 40+ assists.
1 x 100+ points.

'89 Calder Trophy
'92, '97 Norris Trophy
'94 Conn Smythe Trophy.

Leetch never gets any respect.

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05-12-2006, 04:39 PM
  #23
God Bless Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlio lemieux
Over 1000 pts in his carreer.
5 x 20+ goals.
10 x 40+ assists.
1 x 100+ points.

'89 Calder Trophy
'92, '97 Norris Trophy
'94 Conn Smythe Trophy.

Leetch never gets any respect.
He'll be added eventually. But guys like Pilote (about to be added), Seibert, Horton, Clapper and Clancy deserve it more. Those five should be added before MacInnis, too.

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05-12-2006, 05:12 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
He'll be added eventually. But guys like Pilote (about to be added), Seibert, Horton, Clapper and Clancy deserve it more. Those five should be added before MacInnis, too.
That is your oppinion.

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Old
05-12-2006, 06:02 PM
  #25
Hockey Outsider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
He'll be added eventually. But guys like Pilote (about to be added), Seibert, Horton, Clapper and Clancy deserve it more. Those five should be added before MacInnis, too.
Add Pilote for the next round.

I agree that those five are better than Leetch (who had a truly great career... but there were some defensemen who were even better). They dominated their position and the league as a whole to a greater extent.

- Pilote won three Norris trophies and was runner-up three times, was an 8-time all-star, led defensemen in scoring five times, has a Conn Smythe (awarded retroactively by the HHOF), was an aggressive physical player, and was outstanding defensively. Very good playoff performer too (led league in points in 1961). Hmm... profile is VERY similar to Lidstrom, but their style of play is different.
- Seibert was an all-star 10 years in a row and probably would have 2-5 Norris trophies had they been around back then. Key reason Chicago won Cup in 1938.
- Horton is arguably the greatest defensive defenseman ever. 6-time all-star, runner up for the Norris twice. Huge playoff run in 1962. Best defenseman (and arguably the best player) on Toronto semi-dynatsy in the 60's.
- Clapper is debatable... but he was a 4-time all-star on defense, probably would have won the Norris in 1940 and 1941. Hard to say because he was a forward for so long.
- Clancy was a Hart finalist five times in eight years (and we don't have any data about 1932 aside from the fact that Morenz won). No Norris's back then, but it's safe to say Clancy was a perennial all-star. Was a four-time all-star and they didn't even have those until the 10th year of his career! Led defensemen in scoring three times, runner-up three times. Excellent skating and puck control, strong defense.


Last edited by Hockey Outsider: 05-12-2006 at 06:08 PM.
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