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A few Bruce Graham questions

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Old
05-11-2006, 10:45 PM
  #1
Marc the Habs Fan
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A few Bruce Graham questions

I own him in a keeper league and I am wondering if you guys can answer some questions I have on this giant center from the maritimes...

a: Do you guys think he has a NHL future?

b: What type of player can he? Does he use his size effectively ?(i.e. potential power forward or solid checker with physical touch) How good are his hands ? (potential offensive player?)

c: How many more years will he need in the minors before we can make the proper call on his potential ? At least 1? 2?

d: With his size can he pull a Dustin Penner and emerge as a force once he hits 23-24 years old?

e: How high are the Rangers on him? Is it safe to say he is waaaaaaay behind centers like Immonen and Dubinsky on the depth chart?

Thank you.

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05-12-2006, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan
I own him in a keeper league and I am wondering if you guys can answer some questions I have on this giant center from the maritimes...

a: Do you guys think he has a NHL future?

b: What type of player can he? Does he use his size effectively ?(i.e. potential power forward or solid checker with physical touch) How good are his hands ? (potential offensive player?)

c: How many more years will he need in the minors before we can make the proper call on his potential ? At least 1? 2?

d: With his size can he pull a Dustin Penner and emerge as a force once he hits 23-24 years old?

e: How high are the Rangers on him? Is it safe to say he is waaaaaaay behind centers like Immonen and Dubinsky on the depth chart?

Thank you.

I think a less skilled Viktor Kozlov.

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05-12-2006, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41
I think a less skilled Viktor Kozlov.
scary

I haven't seen enough of him, but I'd say that e is yes

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05-12-2006, 01:07 AM
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Saw him once live against Binghamton this year.

a. Did not have that great a season and shuffled between ECHL and AHL. Is really young and very skinny for his height. He needs to put on some pounds and then we'll see more of what he can do.

b. From the one time he was ineffective in the hitting game. More shoving than anything else. He has good hands.

c. He's at best two more full seasons in the minors from what I saw. He hasn't established himself as an AHL player yet. He's certainly behind Jessiman who didn't have a great year either although Bruce is a couple years younger.

d. Hopefully.

e. The Rangers are high on him IMO but he is a long range project for now. Right now we have 3 centers with a legit shot at making the club next year. Immonen, Helminen and a longer shot (though he's 3-4 years younger) Dubinsky.

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05-12-2006, 01:12 AM
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He's one of those "project" type players.

He needs to pull a lot of things together to make the NHL and still more to be a success once he gets there. Love the size and the raw skill. Just too early to tell with this one.

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05-12-2006, 01:56 AM
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Wasn't the knock on Graham suposed to be his skating?

If it was a question mark in 2004 then it's even more of one now in the faster, post lockout NHL.


Last edited by xander: 05-12-2006 at 02:12 AM.
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05-12-2006, 04:12 AM
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I dont think he will make it, didnt impress me at all on the 3-4 times i have seen Pack games. He is tall but looks a bit skinny and didnt have anything special for me, there is some potential but i dont think he has enough nasty edge or physicallity to get by as a checker, his offence isnt very good.

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05-12-2006, 04:47 AM
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Bruce is a great kid, a good hockey but was hurt allot by the new rules. Size got less important, and speed more important.

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05-12-2006, 04:48 AM
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Leslie Treff
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As the year went along, Graham looked more and more like a project, at best. He looked very good in camp, hard to move away from the crease, but then went downhill against competition (even ECHL level competition). Graham is behind Jessiman and is a long shot to make it to the NHL.

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05-12-2006, 06:31 AM
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Graham had a viral infection which ruined his season.It was the type of infection which couldn't be treated with antibiotics.He had to wait until the infection left his body

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05-12-2006, 10:07 AM
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When I first saw Graham, I thought he'd be a Keith Primeau type player over time. Size, skill, good hands, solid offensively, sound, but still could use improvement defensively,and decent on faceoffs. The scouting reports had "project" written all over him.

With the new rules, it's kind of hard to see him making the NHL, it basically makes a guy like him pointless, especially with his foot speed problems, and that's why Jarkko Immonen's stock has dropped IMO, although according to scouts, with his near point per game season in Hartford, it's risen.

I just hope we can nab a center in this year's draft....

P.S.: What's the scoop on Latendresse? I heard the hype about this guy and I heard how good of a training camp and start of a season he had and didn't make the team. I'll take him if you guys won't give him a shot, hehe.

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05-12-2006, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99
P.S.: What's the scoop on Latendresse? I heard the hype about this guy and I heard how good of a training camp and start of a season he had and didn't make the team. I'll take him if you guys won't give him a shot, hehe.
The Habs are one of the most conservative teams when it comes to getting young players into the NHL fulltime. If Latendresse is drafted by several other teams teams and plays like he did in camp here for those teams, they keep him for the first 9 games to see if he can stick around for the rest of the season.

The Habs simply deemed that he wasn't ready to the point where he could play in a top 3 line role, plus we had 3 other rookie forwards in Higgins, Plekanec and Perezhogin who were older and had nothing to learn in the AHL. They weren't going to waste a year of service time by keeping him on the 4th line. After searching for a talented power forward (and a local one!) for such a long time, the Habs will keep him thank you very much.

Thanks for the answers on Graham ...looks like I will continue to try and trade him.

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Old
05-12-2006, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
Graham had a viral infection which ruined his season.It was the type of infection which couldn't be treated with antibiotics.He had to wait until the infection left his body
Most viral infections can't be treated with antibiotics... like all of them.

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05-12-2006, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
Most viral infections can't be treated with antibiotics... like all of them.
He meant there was no anti-viral meds for it.

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Old
05-13-2006, 09:45 AM
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Is that true about the viral infection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
Graham had a viral infection which ruined his season.It was the type of infection which couldn't be treated with antibiotics.He had to wait until the infection left his body
If so, I can certainly see how his game could go south. My own son this year came down with a unidentified viral infection. At first they thought it was Strep Throat, then they thought it was Asthma because he had trouble breathing, then Mono. He was tested 3 times for Mono and each time, negative. In fact every test they did came up negative. Slowing he lost all his strength, no stamina. He couldn't be up for any length of time let alone play. Finally we took him home from school and brought him to a specialist in Atlanta and they did a slew of blood test. He tested positive for a previous episode of Epstein Barr Syndrome, but that wasn't what he had now. EBS is very serious and can turn into some serious diseases. They had no idea what the infection was and still don't. There were no meds, just plenty of rest and wait until your body rebounded from it. It wiped out his whole season, had to withdraw from all his classes, and now 8 months later is just now slowly regaining his strength and stamina. The doctor told us that somewhere in the next few years the Center for Disease Control will have identified the viral infection, name it and start to research ways to combat it with drugs.

So if Graham ended up having something very similar I would not be so quick to make a judgement off of this season. My son is about Graham's size, 6'4" 195lbs, and it was sad watching him get pushed off of plays when he always used his size and strength to his advantage. I think people lose sight of how young some of these guys are. Graham when drafted was looked at as a project and that he was going to take time. The other thing that I have seen is that the bigger guy sometimes take a little bit longer to grow into his body. I am still of the opinion that another 2 years needs to be allocated to Graham's development. After that I think we will be in a better position to ascertain whether he is a solid prospect or not and has a future as an NHLer.

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05-13-2006, 12:14 PM
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I will get more information on Graham and report back in the next few days.

I am sorry about your son's illness. As someone who had a viral infection for a couple of years that was never definitively identified, I understand how these things can take all your energy. However, I never would have been able to be on the ice at all while I had it.

Let me get more info on Graham, before we jump to any further conclusions.

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05-13-2006, 08:05 PM
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There was some kind of mystery virus going around the Pack earlier this season. Graham, Montoya, and Sparre all missed time, and all of them lost a lot of weight.

Graham was also the youngest player to play in the ECHL this season, and was one of the youngest players in the AHL this season.

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05-14-2006, 05:57 AM
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Graham couldn't take Levaquin which is a strong antibiotic-as an example

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05-15-2006, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
If so, I can certainly see how his game could go south. My own son this year came down with a unidentified viral infection. At first they thought it was Strep Throat, then they thought it was Asthma because he had trouble breathing, then Mono. He was tested 3 times for Mono and each time, negative. In fact every test they did came up negative. Slowing he lost all his strength, no stamina. He couldn't be up for any length of time let alone play. Finally we took him home from school and brought him to a specialist in Atlanta and they did a slew of blood test. He tested positive for a previous episode of Epstein Barr Syndrome, but that wasn't what he had now. EBS is very serious and can turn into some serious diseases. They had no idea what the infection was and still don't. There were no meds, just plenty of rest and wait until your body rebounded from it. It wiped out his whole season, had to withdraw from all his classes, and now 8 months later is just now slowly regaining his strength and stamina. The doctor told us that somewhere in the next few years the Center for Disease Control will have identified the viral infection, name it and start to research ways to combat it with drugs.

So if Graham ended up having something very similar I would not be so quick to make a judgement off of this season. My son is about Graham's size, 6'4" 195lbs, and it was sad watching him get pushed off of plays when he always used his size and strength to his advantage. I think people lose sight of how young some of these guys are. Graham when drafted was looked at as a project and that he was going to take time. The other thing that I have seen is that the bigger guy sometimes take a little bit longer to grow into his body. I am still of the opinion that another 2 years needs to be allocated to Graham's development. After that I think we will be in a better position to ascertain whether he is a solid prospect or not and has a future as an NHLer.
I hope your son is doing well. More important than hockey.

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05-15-2006, 02:34 PM
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Another season shot for him

Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
I hope your son is doing well. More important than hockey.
He lost his previous season to surgery, regained his form, regained a starting position and bam, within4 games on his back and out for the year. He's slowly coming around. Pushed it a bit too much running 3-5 miles every other day and then on the in between days hit the weights. He probably started too early and had some releapses, but he is now about 80-90%.

He hopes to play in a summer league which will lead into their fall season. which should get him back in the shape he demands of himself. He had a very similar thing happen to him at 15-16. He played a whopping 100 minutes one year due to injury and the fact that he grew 5 1/2 inches that year. He needed a whole year to catch up to his body. He went from about 5'6" to 5'11 1/2". His shoe went from an 8 1/2 to a 10-11. When you go through something like that you at least of a point of reference and know that you can get back to where you were, or want to be.

Thanks for asking.

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05-15-2006, 04:20 PM
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Atlanta: Us older guys need to stick together and provide Ranger history lessons for the younger posters.

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05-15-2006, 05:03 PM
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I agree 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
Atlanta: Us older guys need to stick together and provide Ranger history lessons for the younger posters.
Some of the stuff is very short cited. I am amazed at the number of players that we've drafted, traded for, that are in the organization and have a good chance of making the NHL. This has to be the best this organization has looked in many a year.

While I would agree that you would want as many of your players NHL ready at 21, there is nothing wrong with have some players develop later. What surprises me is that all want a rebuild, but many have not the patience for what really is involved. This year has been a real blessing for the organization. It put to bed the no playoff thing. It gave the organization a valuable year to let players continue on their development without rushing anybody.

If players like Jessiman and Graham and Falardeau can turn the corner and develop we could be really singing a happy tune. What I like is the attitude of the players they have drafted or traded for. We definately need to be a bit more gritter, but that will come. We have players from within that can fill that void. The next couple of years are going to be fun.

If we can continue to draft well we will have a very good team and a very solid foundation for years to come, for what I think, the 1st time in NYRs history. If you look back at the Cat teams, they had a core, Ratelle, Gilbert, Park, Neilson, Villemure, Giacomin, Tkaczuk, Fairbairn, but some many more were parts added via trades. In 2-3 years this whole team could very well be home grown. That is exciting. Slowly, behind the scenes, we've done what fans like you and I could never understand why we, as an organization have never been able to do, build from within on a consistant basis.

Actually Hartford maybe more fun to watch next year. They should have a very young team. Then if you stop and think about his time next May, there will be several more promising players that will need to be signed.

Where I get P.O. is when people, even "experts" try and pigeon hole players at a very early stage in their pro development. We have both seen our fair share of players who were suppose to be the next sure thing to never fulfill that promise. We've also seen our fair share of career 3rd and 4th liners or 5th or 6th dmen, or backup goalies, prove them wrong. I let the player determine what they end up being.

Either way this is going to be another good off season. I am more inclined than not to pass on Chara. I don't like a player who doesn't perform under the pressure of the spot light. I don't know if he could make it here. I think we might be better off investing our UFA dollars on a under the radar type player. More bang for the buck.
You can keep all the glitz of the regular season, give me a playoff performer any day. Commodore on Carolina has really impressed me these past 2 playoffs. Here was a player whose skating killed him. He improved his skating and bam, he's becoming a stud. He's a bigger guy like Jessiman, Graham, Falardeau, Taylor, etc. This guy bounced around since 99 when he was drafted. That is what I mean about understanding players and allowing them to develop at their pace. Not everyone develops according to a set time table.

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05-16-2006, 01:04 AM
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Hartford should be very interesting Atlanta as I see them being almost all first and second year players. A couple 3 year players (Liffiton, Taylor and maybe Pock but Liffiton is still very young). Don't necessarily agree with you on Chara. Instead of giving extra ice time to Roszival we'd be better off giving it to a guy that can handle it. Chara would bring us a physical dimension we're lacking and lacking badly. Ozo might not be around for a while or at all. With Tyutin, Kaspar, Malik and Roszival that would give us 3 openings and I don't think we have 3 currently in our system ready to fill those vacancies. Zdeno can take a ton of ice time--that would give us more flexibility. Comparing him to Commodore is a little whacky to me--what the Flames and Hurricanes expect from him is to just stay at home and use his size. He is not an all purpose player. He's proven to be a good player but he's been playing in good systems.

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05-16-2006, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones
Hartford should be very interesting Atlanta as I see them being almost all first and second year players. A couple 3 year players (Liffiton, Taylor and maybe Pock but Liffiton is still very young). Don't necessarily agree with you on Chara. Instead of giving extra ice time to Roszival we'd be better off giving it to a guy that can handle it. Chara would bring us a physical dimension we're lacking and lacking badly. Ozo might not be around for a while or at all. With Tyutin, Kaspar, Malik and Roszival that would give us 3 openings and I don't think we have 3 currently in our system ready to fill those vacancies. Zdeno can take a ton of ice time--that would give us more flexibility. Comparing him to Commodore is a little whacky to me--what the Flames and Hurricanes expect from him is to just stay at home and use his size. He is not an all purpose player. He's proven to be a good player but he's been playing in good systems.

Id rather have Jovo and Malik than Rozsival and Malik next year. Id also like Kubina, Mitchell or Skrastins. Those are my top 4 dman i want.

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05-16-2006, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41
Id rather have Jovo and Malik than Rozsival and Malik next year. Id also like Kubina, Mitchell or Skrastins. Those are my top 4 dman i want.
At most we can afford two good UFA's at D or one excellent one (Chara)--at least the way I see it. On Roszival I am not a big fan but tell that to the Ranger brass as they seem to like him a lot and that is why I automatically type him here into my lineup because (whether you or I or someone else likes it or not) I do believe he will be coming back. He's not terrible to me. He is a 5-6 the way I see it. He is upgradable. Life will go on with him or without him.

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