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Old
05-16-2006, 03:57 AM
  #26
TOPGUN
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Alfredsson is a great player and he brings a lot of skill and leadership.

But what! He is 34 years old and makes $5 million. Both is too much. I don't think we need one/two big name players, I think we need several "key" players on offense and defense.

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05-16-2006, 08:46 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
You need to watch Alfredsson because he plays absolutely nothing like Lang.
I wasn't claiming they play alike, becasue I know they are vastly different (Lang actually shows up for the playoffs ). However, they do share some similar qualities - overpaid, on the downside of their careers, and in the dog house of their respective fanbase. Given that Alfie has 15m remaining on his contract and his age, I've got zero interest in him. If we didn't already have Lang, Lidstrom, Schneider, Draper and a few others then I might be inclined to listen. But the last thing we need is another "veteran leader".

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05-16-2006, 08:53 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
No kidding!

Alfredsson is a faster stronger Zetterberg.
And 10 years older and double the salary. No thx.

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05-16-2006, 09:26 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
To get Alfredsson the Wings would have to give up much more than Lang, Hudler and a pick. Remember what Ottawa was giving up to get Yzerman in '95? Detroit would have to give up a similar package to get Alfie.
and at that point I'd lose interest entirely. I figured a Lang-Alfie swap would be a figment of imagination, but I'm still holding out hope the Wings can find a way to get Grigorenko over here, too. Once a dreamer, always a dreamer.

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05-16-2006, 09:39 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
and at that point I'd lose interest entirely. I figured a Lang-Alfie swap would be a figment of imagination, but I'm still holding out hope the Wings can find a way to get Grigorenko over here, too. Once a dreamer, always a dreamer.
I wouldn't even do Lang for Alfie. Robert's contract is for 1 million less dollars and it's off the books after one more year. Nothing short of Havlat or Heatley along with Alfie for Lang + (maybe Lang and Pavel) would even tempt me to consider such a swap. There's no real chance of such a trade so I know I'm dreaming too.

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05-16-2006, 09:41 AM
  #31
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I would trade any Wing not named Zetterberg for Alfredsson and throw in Hudler to boot.

(Altho I'm hedgeing a bit on whether or not I'd put Kronvall in the "don't trade, he'll be great one day" category)

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05-16-2006, 09:44 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
I wouldn't even do Lang for Alfie. Robert's contract is for 1 million less dollars and it's off the books after one more year. Nothing short of Havlat or Heatley along with Alfie for Lang + (maybe Lang and Pavel) would even tempt me to consider such a swap. There's no real chance of such a trade so I know I'm dreaming too.
Are you joking Alfredson is as good or possibly better than Zetterberg. You wouldn't give up Lang because of the expense?

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05-16-2006, 09:49 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi
Are you joking Alfredson is as good or possibly better than Zetterberg. You wouldn't give up Lang because of the expense?
I'm as serious as a heart attack. 5 million probably won't be too much to pay for Alfie next season, but he's got two more years at that amount. By the end of the contract I expect he'll be way, way overpaid. See Sergei Fedorov as a prime example of how a player's value sinks as they get older. Feds is making 6m and isn't worth half that much. 34-35 years old is typically when forwards see a sharp decline in production.

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Old
05-16-2006, 11:44 AM
  #34
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I would trade Datsyuk for Alfredsson and not bat an eye.

As for the getting old and slowing down, there might be a point there if he were not steadily improving in play and production over each of the past 5-6 seasons. He's peaking and the next three years I bet he'll continue to put up 80+ points with solid two-way play. I don't see Pavel ever being as good/valuable as Alfredsson is now. Even with the 6 extra years, as I highly doubt those 6 are going to be played in Detroit.

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Old
05-16-2006, 12:07 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
I would trade Datsyuk for Alfredsson and not bat an eye.

As for the getting old and slowing down, there might be a point there if he were not steadily improving in play and production over each of the past 5-6 seasons. He's peaking and the next three years I bet he'll continue to put up 80+ points with solid two-way play. I don't see Pavel ever being as good/valuable as Alfredsson is now. Even with the 6 extra years, as I highly doubt those 6 are going to be played in Detroit.
Now you've got me thinking...

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Old
05-16-2006, 12:14 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
Now you've got me thinking...
Doubly so if you take into account that that gap in salary will shrink (if not go the other way) with Datsyuk's next contract.

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Old
05-16-2006, 12:22 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
I would trade Datsyuk for Alfredsson and not bat an eye.

As for the getting old and slowing down, there might be a point there if he were not steadily improving in play and production over each of the past 5-6 seasons. He's peaking and the next three years I bet he'll continue to put up 80+ points with solid two-way play. I don't see Pavel ever being as good/valuable as Alfredsson is now. Even with the 6 extra years, as I highly doubt those 6 are going to be played in Detroit.
So essentially you kill your center depth to get a big name winger who's 34 years old? The Sens themselves are looking for another center to compliment Spezza, because as great as the Heatley/Spezza/Alfie line was Murray knew he had little scoring depth after that, so he broke them up. You trade Datsyuk for Alfie and Detroit ends up like Ottawa...and I'm not cool with relying on a 36 year old Lang to provide that big time #2 center play Datsyuk provides.

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05-16-2006, 12:32 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
So essentially you kill your center depth to get a big name winger who's 34 years old? The Sens themselves are looking for another center to compliment Spezza, because as great as the Heatley/Spezza/Alfie line was Murray knew he had little scoring depth after that, so he broke them up. You trade Datsyuk for Alfie and Detroit ends up like Ottawa...and I'm not cool with relying on a 36 year old Lang to provide that big time #2 center play Datsyuk provides.
We have too many centers and not enough quality wingers. The Sens have the opposite problem.

We'd still have Zetterberg, Lang, Draper, Franzen down the middle. Solid top 2 and great bottom 2.

If Shanny re-signs cheap he can play on a line with Lang and Alfie on a line with Zetterberg. Give Hank a bit more talent on his wings and Shanny a center he actually exhibited chemistry with in the past. The may be old and slow but they can still play and being big allows them to at the very least not get pushed around, even if they decide to not do any pushing of their own.

Oh and added bonus, Alfredsson is infinitely better on the point as a right-handed shot than Willy! Pomminville goal notwithstanding.

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Old
05-16-2006, 12:33 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
So essentially you kill your center depth to get a big name winger who's 34 years old? The Sens themselves are looking for another center to compliment Spezza, because as great as the Heatley/Spezza/Alfie line was Murray knew he had little scoring depth after that, so he broke them up. You trade Datsyuk for Alfie and Detroit ends up like Ottawa...and I'm not cool with relying on a 36 year old Lang to provide that big time #2 center play Datsyuk provides.
The Wings are too deep at center. They really need to deal a center for a scoring winger. This would fit the bill. I'd rather deal Lang than Datsyuk though - I don't want to see Pavel with Heatley and/or Havlat.

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Old
05-16-2006, 12:39 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
The Wings are too deep at center. They really need to deal a center for a scoring winger. This would fit the bill. I'd rather deal Lang than Datsyuk though - I don't want to see Pavel with Heatley and/or Havlat.
Lang won't get it done, and honestly Pavel might not either.

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Old
05-16-2006, 12:42 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
I wasn't claiming they play alike, becasue I know they are vastly different (Lang actually shows up for the playoffs ). However, they do share some similar qualities - overpaid, on the downside of their careers, and in the dog house of their respective fanbase.
Wow, you are wrong on all three... I think that is called a strikeout.

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Old
05-16-2006, 12:47 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamboner
Wow, you are wrong on all three... I think that is called a strikeout.
You're so right
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=251820

Quote:
I'm going to be part of the minority here, but I want him to stay.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=251869

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Old
05-16-2006, 12:53 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
The Wings are too deep at center. They really need to deal a center for a scoring winger. This would fit the bill. I'd rather deal Lang than Datsyuk though - I don't want to see Pavel with Heatley and/or Havlat.
There's a difference between being deep at center, and being deep with QUALITY centers. Going by the hypothetical of Datsyuk traded for Alfie, Detroit would be left with two proven skilled centers...one young star and an aging, PP specialist. Then you're left with an aging Draper and Franzen. Detroit definitely has a glut of centers, but in terms of true depth it's not that great.

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Old
05-16-2006, 12:59 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
There's a difference between being deep at center, and being deep with QUALITY centers. Going by the hypothetical of Datsyuk traded for Alfie, Detroit would be left with two proven skilled centers...one young star and an aging, PP specialist. Then you're left with an aging Draper and Franzen. Detroit definitely has a glut of centers, but in terms of true depth it's not that great.
Still better than 20-25 teams out there. Zetterberg, Lang, Draper, Franzen is pretty much the best than you could hope for in a cap era. We backed into the cap with a ton of quality centers. And real light on the wings. Centers without quality wingers are going to be at a disadvantage if they don't have the ability to carry scrubs along, turning 2nd/3rd liners into 1st liners.

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Old
05-16-2006, 01:04 PM
  #45
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And we have Filppula and Oullahan at GR (Hudler if you want to move him off the wing), plus Cleary can slide over to center. And McGrath is in the pipeline, so losing a young center may not be as much of a hurt as it appears.

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05-16-2006, 01:07 PM
  #46
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Well, the next questions - do we want Alfie or Havlat? The Sens are in a real salary crunch it appears, and Havlat seems to be available.

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05-16-2006, 01:07 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Still better than 20-25 teams out there. Zetterberg, Lang, Draper, Franzen is pretty much the best than you could hope for in a cap era. We backed into the cap with a ton of quality centers. And real light on the wings. Centers without quality wingers are going to be at a disadvantage if they don't have the ability to carry scrubs along, turning 2nd/3rd liners into 1st liners.
We can agree to disagree, but if Spezza, Fisher, Smoke and Vermette arent good enough for the Sens, I dont see how Zetterberg, Lang, Draper and Franzen is any better...(actually it's worse). Also consider getting Alfredsson kills any chance for Detroit to address the situation on the back end, in goal, and depth at wing and trading for Alfie really doesnt add up. Alfredsson doesnt make Detroit viable a Cup contender IMO.

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05-16-2006, 01:08 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
Well, the next questions - do we want Alfie or Havlat? The Sens are in a real salary crunch it appears, and Havlat seems to be available.
One is attainable with our tradeable assets. The other not so much.

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Old
05-16-2006, 01:11 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
We can agree to disagree, but if Spezza, Fisher, Smoke and Vermette arent good enough for the Sens, I dont see how Zetterberg, Lang, Draper and Franzen is any better...(actually it's worse). Also consider getting Alfredsson kills any chance for Detroit to address the situation on the back end, in goal, and depth at wing and trading for Alfie really doesnt add up. Alfredsson doesnt make Detroit viable a Cup contender IMO.
We don't need depth at wing. We need QUALITY at wing. We have tons of depth guys for wingers and not enough of the good ones. Alfredsson would improve our team defense. And we were not going to be in the market for a high-end goalie anyway.

A Datsyuk for Alfredsson swap in and of itself will improve this team. One move does not dictate all other moves. Plenty of places to tinker with the team.

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Old
05-16-2006, 01:15 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
And we have Filppula and Oullahan at GR (Hudler if you want to move him off the wing), plus Cleary can slide over to center. And McGrath is in the pipeline, so losing a young center may not be as much of a hurt as it appears.
Out of all the center combos left in the playoffs, tell me which one Detroit is better than if they trade Datsyuk...Briere/Drury? Nope. Thornton/Marleau? Nope. Stahl/Weight? Nope. Horcoff/Peca? Nope. The point is, having a 1-2 punch at center is just as important now as it was when Detroit won 3 Cups. Holland has repeated this several times over the past few weeks. A center combo like Hank and Datsyuk is something you build around.

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