HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Minnesota Wild
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rookies on roster next year?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-18-2006, 05:50 PM
  #1
CronoX
Registered User
 
CronoX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hockeytown, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 834
vCash: 500
Rookies on roster next year?

Minnesota has a lot of impressive prospects in their system. What rookies do you think will play for them next year? Harding will probably be the primary backup. Will O'Sullivan be given significant playing time? Anyone else coming up the system? Voloshenko?

CronoX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2006, 07:49 PM
  #2
firstroundbust
lacks explosiveness
 
firstroundbust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Parts Unknown
Country: United States
Posts: 5,641
vCash: 500
Harding is a lock

O'Sullivan is everything but...
Matt Foy will get a good hard look, he made the team last year, and was one of the last cuts in the previous training camp...
and perhaps Erik Reitz on D, altho Clayton Stoner, Shawn Belle, and Ryan Stokes will probably get a look.

firstroundbust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2006, 10:18 PM
  #3
sushinsky4tsar
Registered User
 
sushinsky4tsar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Edina, MN
Posts: 789
vCash: 500
^^^^What he said.

Harding- 20 games

O'Sullivan- I'm betting on 30-40 points, JL won't let him just play to his strength, he's going to be all over him, he'll put 2 stiffs on his line for most of the year, standard JL grooming the younguns stuff

Foy- I'm pretty sure he will start the year here. Whether he finishes will depend on his progress and our chances of making the playoffs.

Voloshenko- good chance of a mid-season callup

Pouliot- 20% chance he takes an NHL shift. Should spend the season in the A.

sushinsky4tsar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2006, 11:05 AM
  #4
Surly Furious
Registered User
 
Surly Furious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: frozen north
Posts: 6,954
vCash: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by sushinsky4tsar
^^^^What he said.

Harding- 20 games

O'Sullivan- I'm betting on 30-40 points, JL won't let him just play to his strength, he's going to be all over him, he'll put 2 stiffs on his line for most of the year, standard JL grooming the younguns stuff

Foy- I'm pretty sure he will start the year here. Whether he finishes will depend on his progress and our chances of making the playoffs.

Voloshenko- good chance of a mid-season callup

Pouliot- 20% chance he takes an NHL shift. Should spend the season in the A.
Don't you think O'Sullivan would get significant power play time though?

Surly Furious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2006, 02:13 PM
  #5
DWP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 80
vCash: 500
Despite the offensive production that O'Sullivan produced in the AHL, I do ne think he has matured his complete game enough to become a significant contributor to the Wild next year.

But, I concede I could be wrong. Look at PMB. He was basically on cruise control here in Houston for most of 2004-2005 season. And I found fault with his toughness and intensity. I made comments about how he was too soft to fit into Lemaire's systems oriented game. And for the most part, I think I was proved wrong based on PMB's progress last season with the Wild.

So, perhaps O'Sullivan will pick up his game when he is pushed.

But here's the deal. The AHL is full of prospects that bust their *** every shift every night mostly trying to prove to the "powers that be" that they should be given a shot. This intensity exhibited by most of the players really is what makes the AHL special (BTW, I'm comparing the AHL to the old IHL regarding this particular observation). So it really irks me when I see players with huge potential come to the AHL and only put out what they have to in order to please the front office.

I'm not a big fan players that only play the offensive end of the rink. O' Sullivan, until proven otherwise, has not exhibited any real interest in becoming a more complete player.

Sorry, but that's the way I see it down here below the Red River,

And also, Harding stunk up the ice during the Milwaukee series. But he wasn't alone.

DWP

DWP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2006, 04:18 PM
  #6
The Big E
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 807
vCash: 500
DWP,

I see your perspective about the AHL. For many guys, you're right, they are doing absolutely everything they can to show they can play in the NHL. However, I would suggest that Wild fans consider O'Sullivan's learning curve. I think he's on a steeper curve than your average AHLer.

He joined a team in the Q, Mississauga, that was awful. He had a good to great season his first year, all things considered. They were then able to build a good team around him. He picked up his game to new level every year. He was instrumental in the US Team winning the U18 World Championship over Canada. All of this despite not having a supportive family; his Dad is a psycho and Patty disowned him while playing for Mississauga. He then brought his game up another level and proved he was the scoring machine we hoped he'd be at the AHL level. He's showed he can adapt and that he shows up when it matters.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I think he'll put up 40 points next year in the NHL.

And, yes, Bookman, I think he'll get some power play time. That'll help him get his 40 points.

Harding is our backup goalie and Foy has a good chance of making the team as a replacement for Wanvig. Voloshenko might not make the team. If he doesn't he'll be the first call up. Pouliot learns how to bring his game every night down in Houston.

The Big E

The Big E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2006, 09:07 PM
  #7
jumptheshark
the burn out
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 52,797
vCash: 1850
I think enless Sullivan has a very bad camp--he is going to be on the team

jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2006, 11:19 AM
  #8
DWP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 80
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big E
He then brought his game up another level and proved he was the scoring machine we hoped he'd be at the AHL level. He's showed he can adapt and that he shows up when it matters.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I think he'll put up 40 points next year in the NHL.
Let's say your right and O' Sullivan does put up 40 points next year for the Wild. Is this the only measure you look at as far as being a success? I concede in Lemaire's systems, getting 40 points would be very difficult to do if you consistently only put out in the offensive zone. So, I take this to mean that you project that O'Sullivan will do something to convince the coaches that he will play both ends of the rink. Am I right about this presumption?

If so, this is where I think you are on thin ice (excuse the pun). I can't speak for O'Sullivan's junior career or his time playing at the international level as a junior. but I can point to his lack of effort at the AHL on the defensive end.

I will agree with you about a steep learning curve at the AHL level. And from a offensive standpoint he picked his game up quickly. But I submit to you that given his inherant offensive abilities and his penchant for cherry picking while his team mates are playing at the defensive end of the ice, he maximized his scoring chances.

It's my opinion that had O'Sullivan played a little tougher along the boards and in front of the net he would have had as many points as Kirby Law had this season.

But for me, the big question mark for O'Sullivan is: Can he raise his game to at least be adequate on the defensive side of the game? I think he has the ability. I think he will be pushed. But I'm not sure if he has the grit.

DWP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2006, 11:52 AM
  #9
LadyByngJeanRatelle
Registered User
 
LadyByngJeanRatelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big E

He joined a team in the Q, Mississauga, that was awful.



The Big E
Mississauga plays in the OHL.

LadyByngJeanRatelle

LadyByngJeanRatelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2006, 12:39 PM
  #10
The Big E
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 807
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyByngJeanRatelle
Mississauga plays in the OHL.
Oops. Duh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWP
Let's say your right and O' Sullivan does put up 40 points next year for the Wild. Is this the only measure you look at as far as being a success? I concede in Lemaire's systems, getting 40 points would be very difficult to do if you consistently only put out in the offensive zone. So, I take this to mean that you project that O'Sullivan will do something to convince the coaches that he will play both ends of the rink. Am I right about this presumption?

If so, this is where I think you are on thin ice (excuse the pun). I can't speak for O'Sullivan's junior career or his time playing at the international level as a junior. but I can point to his lack of effort at the AHL on the defensive end.
[crack] ... [crackle] ... well ... before I slip into the depths of Lake Harriet ...
First (and as I've pointed out) I think that O'Sullivan has stepped up his game at every level. How much would playing great defense in Houston done for him or the organization? Obviously, he's shown he's a scoring threat after a great rookie season in the AHL. I think its clear that Lemaire can teach anyone to play defense. He taught the Daigle Baigle after all. Why not Patty? The reason I think he'll only score 40 is he'll struggle early on defensively. Once he shows improvement, Lemaire will play him more. After overcoming what he did disowning his father, I think this guy has the cajones and will to learn to play enough defense to satisfy Lemaire.

Quote:
I will agree with you about a steep learning curve at the AHL level. And from a offensive standpoint he picked his game up quickly. But I submit to you that given his inherant offensive abilities and his penchant for cherry picking while his team mates are playing at the defensive end of the ice, he maximized his scoring chances.
I personally think we need a another cherry-picker. Gaborik and Bouchard are our two main ... uh ... culprits. We're desperately in need of more offense. Maybe a better way to say it is pair O'Sullivan with a defensively responsible center and give him some latitude to 'cheat' from time to time and keep the opposing defensemen honest. With Gaborik on the ice, breakouts were easier because opposing D knew Gabbie was always floating trying to catch them too far up -- it caused gaps which the Wild could exploit and breakout easier. Maybe a good combo will be Koivu?

Quote:
It's my opinion that had O'Sullivan played a little tougher along the boards and in front of the net he would have had as many points as Kirby Law had this season.
I would rather find the right pairing for him than force him to play a role he's not suited. Joe Thornton is the perfect example. In Boston, they wanted him to be the second-coming of Cam Neely. In San Jose, he doesn't hit anybody! I'd say he's more effective in SJ than Beantown. What I'm trying to get at is let's find a defensively responsible center (Koivu?) and a banger on the other wing (UFA? Foy, Pouliot, Irmen, Bailey?) to allow Patty to play his kind of game.

Quote:
But for me, the big question mark for O'Sullivan is: Can he raise his game to at least be adequate on the defensive side of the game? I think he has the ability. I think he will be pushed. But I'm not sure if he has the grit.
I think he has what the talent to succeed in the NHL. Obviously, we'll find out starting next season and especially when/if we make the '07 playoffs.

Excellent points, DWP.

The Big E

The Big E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2006, 01:31 PM
  #11
Double O Soul
Registered User
 
Double O Soul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 662
vCash: 500
what do you guys think of Olvecky?

Im pretty sure hes pegged for at least another year in the A, but do you guys see any NHL potential in him?

thanks

Double O Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2006, 02:43 PM
  #12
DWP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 80
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonstomper
what do you guys think of Olvecky?

Im pretty sure hes pegged for at least another year in the A, but do you guys see any NHL potential in him?

thanks
I would like to answer your question by comparing Olvecky's game to O'Sullivan's.
Big E responded to one of my points by making a Joe Thornton pre and post trade comparison. When I state that O'Sullivan plays a very soft sort of game and state that he could have produced even more had he played with a little more determination when in the scrums, I'm not suggesting that he become a banger. Olvecky plays with some determination. He does not shy away from the physical side of the game. He does not give up on loose pucks behind the net just because an opponent if within spiting distance. He finishes his checks. He has skills. He can handle the puck. And he plays both ends of the rink. You put Olvecky's complete approach to the game with O'Sullivan's offensive talents and you have a future NHL allstar.

Olvecky is a sleeper for the Wild. I think he can become a go to guy in the Wild's system. From what I have seen of him with the Aeros, he will be a star for the Aeros unless he works himself on to the Wild roster in preseason.

DWP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2006, 02:53 PM
  #13
Double O Soul
Registered User
 
Double O Soul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 662
vCash: 500
thanks a ton

Im in a league with "red shirts" and Im gonna have to make a decision soon on whether to put him on my roster or let him go to the waiver pool

Double O Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2006, 08:04 PM
  #14
JeSuisReine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 95
vCash: 500
O'Sullivan is so irresponsible on defense Daum often had him killing 5 on 3s. Shows what little confidence Daum had in him.

O'Sullivan is never going to be a Wes Walz type of defensive player, that isn't how he would be most valuable for the wild. He's good at what he does, why take that away? why want him to play a type of game that he isn't suited for?


One thing I don't understand, is why people want defensmen who are offensive and forwards who are defensive...whats wrong with having defensemen that play defense, and forwards who play offense as their priority.

JeSuisReine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2006, 09:40 PM
  #15
ceber
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wyoming, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,500
vCash: 500
I sometimes worry that the defensive mindedness of our head coach is starting to permeate this organization from top to bottom, ushers to players to fans, and it will be a long time before we break out of it (which I hope to see). Not really related to this thread, just something that came to mind with JSR's post.

ceber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2006, 11:02 PM
  #16
Wild Bill
Registered User
 
Wild Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeSuisReine
O'Sullivan is so irresponsible on defense Daum often had him killing 5 on 3s. Shows what little confidence Daum had in him.

O'Sullivan is never going to be a Wes Walz type of defensive player, that isn't how he would be most valuable for the wild. He's good at what he does, why take that away? why want him to play a type of game that he isn't suited for?


One thing I don't understand, is why people want defensmen who are offensive and forwards who are defensive...whats wrong with having defensemen that play defense, and forwards who play offense as their priority.
Great post and I agree 100%. Too many people look at offensive players and label them lazy without taking into account what really is being asked of them by their coaches. Most players need to do both to be effective in the league when they can't do one or the other exceptionally. A guy like O'Sully will be up and stay up if he scores and makes plays, not because he can do both OK. He'll be asked to score and everything else will be secondary.

If he was lazy this year in Houston, I hope he stays that way up here.

Wild Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2006, 12:17 PM
  #17
DWP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 80
vCash: 500
I'm going to make a couple of comments and please do not think they are aimed at any particular player.

Ceber comments about his concerns regarding a defensive mindedness permeating throughout the organization and even affecting the fans.

Velvet E. Sax comments basically making the point that some players, because of their unique offensive skills, can get a pass on being responsible defensively.

This long time hockey fan didn't need the Wild nor Lemaire to come along to appreciate the talents and determination it takes to be a complete hockey player.
I submit that if a player has enough talent to excel at the offensive end of the ice, they have enough talent to play a decent defensive game if they only put out the effort. Defense is nothing but playing smart and determined hockey often without much glory. Gauging a player solely on his offensive production, which is done all to frequently by pundits and fans, ignores the contribution that hard-nosed effort plays in a teams win/lose ratio.

When I watch hockey, I'm seldom interested in individual effort. I'm much more interested in watching the ability of a team, as a whole, to put out the effort needed to succeed. Now, some may make a leap and assume that I want to see a bunch of 2-1 hockey games. That is also not an accurate perspective. What I love to see is a team pulling together, every player and every shift putting out maximum effort both offensively and defensively to push the team forward.

The truth is: If there we no tabulation of individual points to players, I believe I could live with that. Team wins and losses and accumulated points in the standings are the only statistics I'm truly interested in.

Players that don't put out full effort do not appeal to me. Players that only seek glory through individual performance are not players I hold in high esteem. And I don't think, as a rule, teams succeed when they have too many of these sorts of players.

This is what has driven me to write these posts.

DWP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2006, 12:42 PM
  #18
ceber
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wyoming, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,500
vCash: 500
I agree with that. I'm just reaching the point where I'm getting tired of our system. I understand the arguments about talent, but I think we had enough last season to be more aggressive offensively. I don't think defense-first equates to team play any more than offense-first equates to individual play. Just in case there was confusion on that point..

ceber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2006, 02:01 PM
  #19
The Big E
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 807
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceber
I agree with that. I'm just reaching the point where I'm getting tired of our system. I understand the arguments about talent, but I think we had enough last season to be more aggressive offensively. I don't think defense-first equates to team play any more than offense-first equates to individual play. Just in case there was confusion on that point..
I gotta disagree with you that we had enough talent to be a more offensively oriented team. Watching

> Chouinard either miss or go six hole all season long from the alot
> Daigle pass from a good shooting position
> Dupuis melting the aluminium shaft of the stick gripping it so hard
> Wanvig, Foy, Koivu and Vielleux just not making the right decisions offensively

I just think that we didn't have enough talent offensively. We could cycle the puck for minutes it seemed, yet not create any scoring chances. Opponents let these guys have a little more space than they might have given a more offensively talented player because they knew these guys weren't likely to score.

We need more legit scoring threats than Rolston, Gabbie and Bouchard. We need more second-tier scoring than White and Robitaille. Walz shouldn't be as high up the scoring chart as he was. We need at least 4 guys ahead of him. Daigle and Dupuis let us down and Wanvig, Foy, Koivu and Vielleux didn't produce like we'd hoped.

The Big E

The Big E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2006, 02:10 PM
  #20
ceber
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wyoming, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,500
vCash: 500
I guess I'm thinking more of attacking the puck than attacking with the puck. There were times, believe it or not, when we actually had more than one guy forechecking and we didn't look too bad. Rather than playing the passive 1-2-2 that we nearly always used, I think we had the right guys to be more aggressive. I'm hoping that we see more aggression next season, but I'm fairly certain we won't. And yet I just renewed my season tickets.

ceber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2006, 02:54 PM
  #21
Surly Furious
Registered User
 
Surly Furious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: frozen north
Posts: 6,954
vCash: 528
I would think you'd want your team's philosophy to permeate the organization, so that players in the minors are ready to step in when called upon. If the Wild played run and gun hockey, this would seem like a good thing; but really, from an organizational perspective, it's a strength.

Surly Furious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2006, 03:30 PM
  #22
DWP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 80
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceber
I guess I'm thinking more of attacking the puck than attacking with the puck. There were times, believe it or not, when we actually had more than one guy forechecking and we didn't look too bad. Rather than playing the passive 1-2-2 that we nearly always used, I think we had the right guys to be more aggressive. I'm hoping that we see more aggression next season, but I'm fairly certain we won't. And yet I just renewed my season tickets.
On this we certainly can agree. The Wild do have the sorts of players that could adjust well to an emphasis on forchecking as a means to produce offensive scoring opportunities. They have a very fast team overall. They have some very hard nosed sort of grinders that could really put pressure in the offnesive zone. And they have speed enough to get back into the play when odd man opportunities arise when their opponents successfully get the puck up the ice. And as a group, their defensemen tend to stay at home.

Wonder what a team that can play either a trapping system and a forechecking system alternating at an irregular unpredictable frequency would be like? Seems to me it would be very confusing on the players. But if done effectively could really be hard for the opponent to adjust to. Don't think I have ever really seen a team use this strategy.

any thoughts?

DWP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2006, 07:44 PM
  #23
The Big E
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 807
vCash: 500
Yes, we certainly do have the team speed to aggressively forecheck. We're also really dangerous sitting back ... when we're on our game. Our counter attacks after mid-ice turnovers are dangerous ... when we're on our game. The problem I hope we address is getting at least one guy (Mark Parrish) will play in front of the net AND score from there.

What would the Wild look like if we could switch at will between an aggressive forecheck and the passive trap? The Red Wings in their prime. It's how Scotty Bowman had the Wings playing. Our a modern version of the mid-70s Canadians.

Returning back to rookies on the roster next year, is if we have more snipers in the line-up, aggressive forechecking would work better than it did last season when we occasionally did it. O'Sullivan and Voloshenko are inexpensive potential snipers and imagine them looking for dead spots coming off the cycle with Pouliot, Irmen or Bailey digging the puck out and getting it on their sticks.

The Big E

The Big E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2006, 08:30 PM
  #24
MePutPuckInNet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,385
vCash: 500
I'm not trying to be a jerk.....but, it seems to me that you're making quite a few assumptions about O'Sullivan, DWP. I know you said you've seen him play for the Aeros this season. And obviously you have your viewpoint and opinion and that's all well and good. I've seen him play, too. And, although I don't agree with a few of your comments, I don't think you're entirely off either. [Not that you'd care what I think, and I'm not assuming that you do ]

But anyway.....goal scorers have always gotten more attention than many of their teammates. It's inherent with what they do. They are FORwards, afterall. Assuming that someone may be "seeking glory through individual performance" seems like a reach. How could you possibly know what motivates a player or players, unless you know them personally?

MePutPuckInNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2006, 11:17 PM
  #25
Phousse
Registered User
 
Phousse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,549
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyByngJeanRatelle
Mississauga plays in the OHL.

Phousse is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.