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Flyers and Sharks taking a look at Comrie.

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Old
11-04-2003, 08:08 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
a trade between these two teams is possible because:

1 Clarke is like Milbury. Anything is possible. I think he is a pretty good gm (except for his gaoltending ineptitude, same as burke)

2 The Flyers have everything except a pure, high end skill guy. The fact is that they didn't have a 30 goal scorer in either of the last two years.

3 it has been widely rumoured that gagne and hitch/clarke are not on the same page. That doesn't make hitch or simon bad, just sometimes coaches don't get allong with a player. A good example is savard in calgary. he was a useless lazy slug in cowtown who flourished after a trade.

4 the flyers can afford to trade a woywitka without decimating their defense. Clarke has done a good job of getting a few very high end talents and can part with a kid or two.


comrie + rita for gagne +woywitka

Good analysis and I agree (except that Gagne scored 33 2 years ago -same as MC) but I would try to substitute Chimera and a 3rd rounder instead of Rita.

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11-04-2003, 08:09 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
I think I'm a bit outta of the loop here. Whats so great about Pitkanen? I haven't heard much about him, but he must be a player if the general consensus is that Comrie straight up for him won't work. Can anyone give me abreakdown on him?
Thanks
Well he is loaded with potential, and that is all there is to it, plus he's had a decent start to the season. Potential is very overrated on these boards, however I think Pitkanen will be very good in the future.

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11-04-2003, 08:23 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
I think I'm a bit outta of the loop here. Whats so great about Pitkanen? I haven't heard much about him, but he must be a player if the general consensus is that Comrie straight up for him won't work. Can anyone give me abreakdown on him?
Thanks
If there was one player I wanted the Oilers to trade up to get last year it was this guy.(More than Nash, J-Bo and Lehtonen) Cool in his zone, great passing skills, jumps in the play, can skate well enough to get back into the defensive zone. Averaging 18 minutes of ice a game in his rookie season. Also averages 4:09 of Powerplay ice per game on a team that has Johnsson, Desjardins on it and is so good that two good blueliners for the Flyers last year got sent to the Phantoms in Seidenberg and Vandermeer.(Although I think Vandermeer got called up.)

In less than two seasons his value will be superior to Eric Brewer. He was described in the THN draft preview issue as Phil Housley with size and a bit of a mean streak. He is to blueline prospects what Spezza is to forwards and what Lehtonen is to goalies.

So he is um....pretty good.

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11-04-2003, 08:27 AM
  #54
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hey, if this was a week ago, I'd say Gagne for Comrie looks possible. However, Gagne has caught fire lately so I don't know if it'll happen now. And there's no way Pitkanen gets traded away...not since they traded Fedotenko for him

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11-04-2003, 08:27 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
If there was one player I wanted the Oilers to trade up to get last year it was this guy.(More than Nash, J-Bo and Lehtonen) Cool in his zone, great passing skills, jumps in the play, can skate well enough to get back into the defensive zone. Averaging 18 minutes of ice a game in his rookie season. Also averages 4:09 of Powerplay ice per game on a team that has Johnsson, Desjardins on it and is so good that two good blueliners for the Flyers last year got sent to the Phantoms in Seidenberg and Vandermeer.(Although I think Vandermeer got called up.)

In less than two seasons his value will be superior to Eric Brewer. He was described in the THN draft preview issue as Phil Housley with size and a bit of a mean streak. He is to blueline prospects what Spezza is to forwards and what Lehtonen is to goalies.

So he is um....pretty good.
Wow. Thanks. Where was he drafted overall and did Philly have the choice to begin with or did they trade up?

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11-04-2003, 08:29 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
I think I'm a bit outta of the loop here. Whats so great about Pitkanen? I haven't heard much about him, but he must be a player if the general consensus is that Comrie straight up for him won't work. Can anyone give me abreakdown on him?
Thanks
6'3" 202 pound dman who was a 4th overall pick.

by all accounts he COULD be the next lidstrom... i've watched two flyers games this year and, frankly, i was EXTREMELY impressed with him in both games. great poise, great speed, great positional play, great passing, great vision, etc...

my prediction for the calder this year...

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11-04-2003, 08:30 AM
  #57
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frankly, I would only like to see gagne or pitkanen come.

If it was Williams and possibly Wyowitka, not a fat chance.

WE NEED QUALITY NOT QUANTITY HERE FOLKS!!!!

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11-04-2003, 08:40 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
6'3" 202 pound dman who was a 4th overall pick.

by all accounts he COULD be the next lidstrom... i've watched two flyers games this year and, frankly, i was EXTREMELY impressed with him in both games. great poise, great speed, great positional play, great passing, great vision, etc...

my prediction for the calder this year...
The only guy two guys that could even be close is Fleury if he keeps it up and possibly Staal if he gets very hot. Other than that...I don't see anyone.

K-Lo tried to trade up...forget what he was offering but if it would have been say a player of decent calibre and two 2nds like Philly got him for...I would have been ecstatic.

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11-04-2003, 08:49 AM
  #59
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this really hurts me to say it, but I watched a flyer game last week and Pitkanen was very impressive. Lowe said on that draft day that he tried to trade up to pick him.

(keep this quiet thoough because flyer fans get big heads whenever someone says something nice about them)

Right now, I would do a brewer for pitkanen trade straight up. He is that good.

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11-04-2003, 09:22 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
If there was one player I wanted the Oilers to trade up to get last year it was this guy.(More than Nash, J-Bo and Lehtonen) Cool in his zone, great passing skills, jumps in the play, can skate well enough to get back into the defensive zone. Averaging 18 minutes of ice a game in his rookie season. Also averages 4:09 of Powerplay ice per game on a team that has Johnsson, Desjardins on it and is so good that two good blueliners for the Flyers last year got sent to the Phantoms in Seidenberg and Vandermeer.(Although I think Vandermeer got called up.)

In less than two seasons his value will be superior to Eric Brewer. He was described in the THN draft preview issue as Phil Housley with size and a bit of a mean streak. He is to blueline prospects what Spezza is to forwards and what Lehtonen is to goalies.

So he is um....pretty good.
I couldn't agree more, not to sound like a homer, but this guy is the real deal and he looks like the #1 DMAN for Philly right now. One thing that strikes out is the fact that he is amazingly calm with the puck even when he is pressured, I've seen him fake out several players already including Sundin and Nolan on the same rush. He has Calder and a hint of Norris written all over him, and he is in his first year. What makes him untouchable is the fact that he is a defenceman, not a forward, therefore less expendable than anyone else. #1 Defensive prospects are like diamonds in the rough, forwards come and go.

I just don't see this trade with Comrie happening for 2 reasons.

1. Lowe would want players we don't want to give up
2. We have our top 3 centers and aren't in real need of another one

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11-04-2003, 09:30 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teezax
I couldn't agree more, not to sound like a homer, but this guy is the real deal and he looks like the #1 DMAN for Philly right now. One thing that strikes out is the fact that he is amazingly calm with the puck even when he is pressured, I've seen him fake out several players already including Sundin and Nolan on the same rush. He has Calder and a hint of Norris written all over him, and he is in his first year. What makes him untouchable is the fact that he is a defenceman, not a forward, therefore less expendable than anyone else. #1 Defensive prospects are like diamonds in the rough, forwards come and go.

I just don't see this trade with Comrie happening for 2 reasons.

1. Lowe would want players we don't want to give up
2. We have our top 3 centers and aren't in real need of another one
i can't dispute your pitkanen points. all very true and i don't think anyone was suggesting that the oilers could land him straight-up for comrie (i included brewer in any pitkanen suggestions).

with regard to having no need for another center:

- how many more years will roenick play? bad knees and age will catch up with him within 2-3 seasons.

- do you expect Primeau to accept his 3rd line role when he becomes a Free Agent after this season? he didn't like it when he was with Detroit and i'd wager he doesn't like it much now... just speculation of course.

my point is that it's not always about "now" (although with clarke it often seems like it is). especially when you can land a 23 year old 30 goal scoring centerman. just food for thought...

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11-04-2003, 09:35 AM
  #62
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I think Handzus is more of a possibility than Williams.
Look at the Flyers down the middle: Roenick, Primeau, Handzus and Lapointe. One can make a case that Primeau and Handzus are excellent 3rd line centers but don't put up great offensive numbers. So they can afford to lose Handzus and put Primeau on the 3rd line and Comrie on the second. Comrie - Gagne - Leclair could be a terrific second line.

We need more than Handzus or Primeau from philly for a deal to make sense IMO.

Pitkanen.....0% chance.

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11-04-2003, 09:38 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
i can't dispute your pitkanen points. all very true and i don't think anyone was suggesting that the oilers could land him straight-up for comrie (i included brewer in any pitkanen suggestions).

with regard to having no need for another center:

- how many more years will roenick play? bad knees and age will catch up with him within 2-3 seasons.

- do you expect Primeau to accept his 3rd line role when he becomes a Free Agent after this season? he didn't like it when he was with Detroit and i'd wager he doesn't like it much now... just speculation of course.

my point is that it's not always about "now" (although with clarke it often seems like it is). especially when you can land a 23 year old 30 goal scoring centerman. just food for thought...
I agree with you, but I just don't see it happening right now, maybe at the deadline. Primeau is happy with his new checking role and I doubt he wants to leave Philly. If he does, go right ahead, and thanks for the 5 mill we save. I don't think they will resign him at the end of the year but we will need him to get through the season...I think Philly won't make a move until either one of an injury happens (knock on wood) or a big slump. Right now we are the third highest scoring team in the league and aren't really in need of more offensive production. Come the trade deadline, who knows what the Flyers' standpoint will be.

And to argue the center position point you made, we drafted Jeff Carter and Mike Richards in the 1st round last draft and we have high hopes for them. We're counting on them to be our go to guys in the future. They look good so far.

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11-04-2003, 09:50 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
i can't dispute your pitkanen points. all very true and i don't think anyone was suggesting that the oilers could land him straight-up for comrie (i included brewer in any pitkanen suggestions).

with regard to having no need for another center:

- how many more years will roenick play? bad knees and age will catch up with him within 2-3 seasons.

- do you expect Primeau to accept his 3rd line role when he becomes a Free Agent after this season? he didn't like it when he was with Detroit and i'd wager he doesn't like it much now... just speculation of course.

my point is that it's not always about "now" (although with clarke it often seems like it is). especially when you can land a 23 year old 30 goal scoring centerman. just food for thought...
A couple of thoughts:

I see Primeau as redundant in the Flyers line up. Handzus is a younger and cheaper version of KP. I think Comrie fits well as the Flyers second line center....fast, fiesty, and creative. Primeau could be dealt elsewhere.....possibly at the deadline. I can't see the Flyers signing him to a new contract. Not at his current salary....not with a new CBA coming.

Comrie and Chimera and 3rd round pick for Gagne and Woywitka

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11-04-2003, 10:03 AM
  #65
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There is only one forward worth getting in a Philly deal, and that's Simon Gagne. If he isn't included, no dice. I like Justin Williams, but he's not good enough to warrant the trade.

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11-04-2003, 10:06 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
Yes'a! Dey'sa should be'sa dissin Jar Jar!

But anyways- I Primeau would be an absolutely completely PERFECT fit in Edmonton! I mean he's BIG up the middle which is a winner there by itself! He can dominate games offensively and defensively. I doubt that this will happen as the Flyers would need to buck up for approx. half of the salary, and I can't see that happening any time soon!
Dude, you seriously overestimate Primeaus' offensive ability. The guy has hands of stone and the Oil already have a big guy who can't score.

Isbister.

Getting a big centre would be great, but what's the point if he can't score?

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11-04-2003, 10:25 AM
  #67
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Over the summer and as the hold out continued, I was very interested in Mike Comrie. I didn't believe that the Flyers had a true number 2 center and so I was willing to deal Handzus and Vandermeer for Mike. My feelings have changed. I now believe that Handzus is the real deal and a very good two-way #2 center in the league. I would not deal Gagne, Pitkanen, Handzus, or Williams straight up for Comrie. Edmonton fans might question why I wouldn't trade Willy for Comrie, probably because they haven't seen Williams play very often. Williams stats might not look as good as Comrie's, hell they might not ever look as good as Comrie's, but I don't care. Williams is the type of player that will do anything to win. He honestly is the best forechecker i've seen in the entire NHL, and always seems to be the first forward back in the defensive zone. His offensive skills are very good, a future 70 point player, imo. Comrie is very gifted offensively, but his two way game is lacking. I don't think he'd fit in Hitch's system and I no longer believe the flyers need an offensive center. Also, Gagne is beginning to regain his touch and has looked very good since coming back from his injury. I would probably deal him for Brewer, but not Comrie. Also, a question for Edmonton fans, did you consider the reason that the flyers didn't have a 30 goal scorer last year? Might have had something to do with injuries and hitch.

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11-04-2003, 10:28 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMenace
Dude, you seriously overestimate Primeaus' offensive ability. The guy has hands of stone and the Oil already have a big guy who can't score.

Isbister.

Getting a big centre would be great, but what's the point if he can't score?

I agree completely. Bringing in an aging $5 million Primeau is ridiculous. Unless, of course, someone has a way of making him $4 million cheaper and 8 years younger. Just checking.

Gagne would be great in Edmonton. Good speed, size, and finishing ability. Plus, his mullet might rival Smythy's. We may have to make all of our LW'ers grow matching mullets.

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11-04-2003, 10:29 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
i can't dispute your pitkanen points. all very true and i don't think anyone was suggesting that the oilers could land him straight-up for comrie (i included brewer in any pitkanen suggestions).

with regard to having no need for another center:

- how many more years will roenick play? bad knees and age will catch up with him within 2-3 seasons.

- do you expect Primeau to accept his 3rd line role when he becomes a Free Agent after this season? he didn't like it when he was with Detroit and i'd wager he doesn't like it much now... just speculation of course.

my point is that it's not always about "now" (although with clarke it often seems like it is). especially when you can land a 23 year old 30 goal scoring centerman. just food for thought...
I'll go through your questions one by one

1) Roenick will probably play another 3 years, minimum. That's why the flyers picked two centers in the first round this year. For the future, they have Carter, Richards, Handzus, Sharpe, and other decent prospects at center.

2) Primeau is very happy with his role. He has been excelling in that spot and they have began contract talks.

So no, I don't believe the Flyers have a need a center for now or the future. At wing? yes, not center.

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11-04-2003, 10:32 AM
  #70
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Ok this thread is WAY too large for me to read every post. But, as a Flyers fan from the Philadelphia area who watches every single game and who reads local articles on a daily basis, let me just inform as to the availability of most of the players who i've seen thrown around this thread in rumors. .... ZERO PERCENT!!

First of all, Pitkanen... are you guys nuts? Clarke is not this trade-happy fool that the media (everywhere but philly) makes him out to be. The Flyers DO have a budget, even if it is a fairly large one. That aside, Clarke would not trade Joni Pitkanen for the entire Edmonton Oilers team right now. That isn't meant as an insult to your hockey club, simply a statement about Pitkanen's potential. Although he makes a rookie mistake now and then, he is ALREADY our best defenseman- at least when it comes to puckhandling and powerplay quarterback ability. Young stud d-men are like a precious gem in this league: you don't trade them- PERIOD! ...Not if you're smart anyway. Eric Brewer, while very, very good, is not on the same level as the type of player that the Flyers expect Pitkanen to be. Hockey experts around the country are lauding this guy as a larger, physical Nik Lidstrom. He's not going anywhere for a very long time if ever.

Justin Williams... Hitchcock has said, repeatedly, that Justin Williams has been our BEST forward thus far this season. There is no way he gets traded this year especially if he continues this level of play. I'd bet money on it.

Gagne... there may come a time in the future when, if it appears that Gagne will never regain form, that the Flyers might part with him. Unfortunately, if that day ever comes, you probably won't want him nearly as much as you do right now. The earliest that this guy gets traded would be the trade deadline, but i still doubt it. He still has time to turn it around and i think he will.

Woywitka... similar to what i said about Pitkanen regarding stud dman potential, but to a much lesser degree. They are just too high on him and the team is playing well right now so why give up prospects for a player that we just don't need?

Handzus... leads the team in goals right now. His line has been our BEST line thus far this season. Why would the Flyers mess with that? The answer is: they won't.

Can we please end this ridiculous thread?

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11-04-2003, 10:32 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
a trade between these two teams is possible because:

1 Clarke is like Milbury. Anything is possible. I think he is a pretty good gm (except for his gaoltending ineptitude, same as burke)

2 The Flyers have everything except a pure, high end skill guy. The fact is that they didn't have a 30 goal scorer in either of the last two years.

3 it has been widely rumoured that gagne and hitch/clarke are not on the same page. That doesn't make hitch or simon bad, just sometimes coaches don't get allong with a player. A good example is savard in calgary. he was a useless lazy slug in cowtown who flourished after a trade.

4 the flyers can afford to trade a woywitka without decimating their defense. Clarke has done a good job of getting a few very high end talents and can part with a kid or two.


comrie + rita for gagne +woywitka
1) Clarke is nothing like Milbury, he made one bad move in a panic deal after losing his top 2 centers the night before the deadline.

2) The flyers do have a pure, high end skill guy, his name is Simon Gagne. And yes, he did score 30 goals 2 years ago. Also, I highly doubt Comrie would score 30 in Hitch's system.

3)I've never seen anything that said Hitch and Gags weren't on the same page. I have, however, heard Hitch say that Gagne is the best offensive and defensive forward on the team and reminds him a lot of a young Modano.

4) Yes, the flyers can afford to trade Woywitka, in the right deal. However, the deal you proposed was not the right deal, imo. In that deal, the Oilers are getting the better current player and the better prospect, imo.

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11-04-2003, 10:38 AM
  #72
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Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm not interested in Handzus at all. Or Primeau, Vandermeer, Seidenberg, or Therien for that matter. I just don't see a deal with Philly out there. They wouldn't offer enough to get him.

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11-04-2003, 10:42 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel
Ok this thread is WAY too large for me to read every post. But, as a Flyers fan from the Philadelphia area who watches every single game and who reads local articles on a daily basis, let me just inform as to the availability of most of the players who i've seen thrown around this thread in rumors. .... ZERO PERCENT!!

First of all, Pitkanen... are you guys nuts? Clarke is not this trade-happy fool that the media (everywhere but philly) makes him out to be. The Flyers DO have a budget, even if it is a fairly large one. That aside, Clarke would not trade Joni Pitkanen for the entire Edmonton Oilers team right now. That isn't meant as an insult to your hockey club, simply a statement about Pitkanen's potential. Although he makes a rookie mistake now and then, he is ALREADY our best defenseman- at least when it comes to puckhandling and powerplay quarterback ability. Young stud d-men are like a precious gem in this league: you don't trade them- PERIOD! ...Not if you're smart anyway. Eric Brewer, while very, very good, is not on the same level as the type of player that the Flyers expect Pitkanen to be. Hockey experts around the country are lauding this guy as a larger, physical Nik Lidstrom. He's not going anywhere for a very long time if ever.

Justin Williams... Hitchcock has said, repeatedly, that Justin Williams has been our BEST forward thus far this season. There is no way he gets traded this year especially if he continues this level of play. I'd bet money on it.

Gagne... there may come a time in the future when, if it appears that Gagne will never regain form, that the Flyers might part with him. Unfortunately, if that day ever comes, you probably won't want him nearly as much as you do right now. The earliest that this guy gets traded would be the trade deadline, but i still doubt it. He still has time to turn it around and i think he will.

Woywitka... similar to what i said about Pitkanen regarding stud dman potential, but to a much lesser degree. They are just too high on him and the team is playing well right now so why give up prospects for a player that we just don't need?

Handzus... leads the team in goals right now. His line has been our BEST line thus far this season. Why would the Flyers mess with that? The answer is: they won't.

Can we please end this ridiculous thread?
It's only ridiculous because you object to trading any of your players whatsoever, but to us it isn't ridiculous, and if sources are correct, it isn't to Clarke either.

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11-04-2003, 10:46 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm not interested in Handzus at all. Or Primeau, Vandermeer, Seidenberg, or Therien for that matter. I just don't see a deal with Philly out there. They wouldn't offer enough to get him.
Good, i'm glad you're not interested in Handzus, because he's probably not going to Edmonton. If you watch him play enough, you would probably realize that he's a much better all around player than Mike Comrie.

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11-04-2003, 10:51 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
It's only ridiculous because you object to trading any of your players whatsoever, but to us it isn't ridiculous, and if sources are correct, it isn't to Clarke either.
Your "sources" are in Edmonton.

In any case, i'm not saying that you're asking too much for Comrie. I'm saying that the Flyers don't want him enough to give up what you're asking. I'm not opposed to trading ANY of the Flyers players, just the ones that it would take to get Comrie. I promise you this deal won't happen. Take it to the bank.

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