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Flyers and Sharks taking a look at Comrie.

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Old
11-04-2003, 07:45 PM
  #151
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I could handle a deal involving Handzus or Williams, but Gagne is very over-rated IMO. He can skate like the wind, but he's got stone hands, kinda like a bigger Marchant.

I'm not sure about Wowyitka (sp?) but if we were going to deal for a prospect I would prefer a deal involving Mike Richards who seems to have great character even if his skills don't translate to the NHL.

Other than those Flyer players, the best fit mentioned in the thread is Marleau from an Oilers perspective. Sturm would be a great pickup as well. I think he had a 5 point night a few years ago in Edmonton and he has size.

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11-04-2003, 07:51 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
While I agree that Comrie has great talent, his demand for a 4 mil dollar paycheck seriously lowers his trade value. Edmonton is trying to dump salary in a league where budgets are tight everywhere (and the Flyers are no exception), and there is a possible lock out next year. Perhaps the only team that could afford to take on his salary right now is Toronto, and they need defensemen, not another center.

In a salary dump, you will not get full value. period. Handzus, who makes about 1.5 mil a year has considerably higher value because of this. He is not quite as good offensively (but still a solid 25 goal scorer), and of course everyone knows all about his great defensive play, so in terms of their contribution to their team, it might be a wash. Same goes for Gagne. About as good, but younger and cheaper. You will not get either of these players unless you are going to give up a young prospect, or pay some salary, or take on one of our vet D-men like Therien (none of which seems likely).

If you dont like it, then dont trade. We certainly don't need the deal that badly on the Flyers side, since at least our players are all playing.

oh yeah, here are Pitkanens 2 goals:
http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/si...031029/1465.rm

http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/si...031018/1442.rm
He isn't asking for $4 mil...

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11-04-2003, 08:02 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces
I wasn't aware that anybody here was claiming to be an expert...

I just don't see any way that both sides could be satisfied by a Comrie for Philly trade. Comrie for Gagne is a lateral move from a Flyers perspective. Lastly, Comrie, as skilled as he may be, is not worth Pitkanen's potential
Was replying mainly to the post that was originally above and others like it. You've had pretty good analysis toonces, and haven't done what I said some are doin.

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11-04-2003, 08:12 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!


BUSTED!

Anyways, the point still stands. Pitkanen>>>>>>Brewer is = crackfumes>>>>>>>oxygen
If you don't take Gagne, Pitkanen for Comrie, Brewer, I think that is a mistake. I tend to believe you haven't followed Pitkanen at all.

Gagne >>Comrie(Especially because he isn't playing right now)
Brewer > Pitkanen

in two years

Pitkanen >>>> Brewer.

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11-04-2003, 08:38 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vb
I could handle a deal involving Handzus or Williams, but Gagne is very over-rated IMO. He can skate like the wind, but he's got stone hands, kinda like a bigger Marchant.
.

I guess you have not watch him then Because Gagnes hands are not the problem, he has great soft hands, hes just been hurt.


Theres no way the Flyers give up Williams or Gagne for Comrie and any mention of Pitkanen is a joke. Pitkanen has been the Flyers best defensemen so far at the age of 20 and thats on a deep defense, Clarke would be killed. The most I see the Flyers given up is Handzus one for one and even than I don't see the Flyers doing it.

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11-04-2003, 10:12 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
If you don't take Gagne, Pitkanen for Comrie, Brewer, I think that is a mistake. I tend to believe you haven't followed Pitkanen at all.

Gagne >>Comrie(Especially because he isn't playing right now)
Brewer > Pitkanen

in two years

Pitkanen >>>> Brewer.
I never said I wouldn't do it, I just said that the Joni/Eric comparison was way out of whack.

Lots of kids have had good junior careers and world junior tourneys and never even become regular nhl'ers, Bonk dominated the IHL at 17 years old and he just became a good top 6 forward in the past couple of seasons. Besides that, the guy has had shoulder and knee surgery already.

Personally I think that if we were able to pick up yet another "untouchable" prospect there are safer bets out there than Pitk with just as much upside.

And in all honesty, that's not a trade I'd make right now. Our d is shaky enough as it is, this season is a write off if we trade away a veteran d-man for an injury prone rookie.

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11-05-2003, 08:50 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
I never said I wouldn't do it, I just said that the Joni/Eric comparison was way out of whack.

Lots of kids have had good junior careers and world junior tourneys and never even become regular nhl'ers, Bonk dominated the IHL at 17 years old and he just became a good top 6 forward in the past couple of seasons. Besides that, the guy has had shoulder and knee surgery already.

Personally I think that if we were able to pick up yet another "untouchable" prospect there are safer bets out there than Pitk with just as much upside.

And in all honesty, that's not a trade I'd make right now. Our d is shaky enough as it is, this season is a write off if we trade away a veteran d-man for an injury prone rookie.
Oi'll say!, you haven't followed Pitkanen much, so best not into a debate about how good or not good you think he is. And if you are not totally knowledgeable about the seriousness of each injury then how can you call him injury prone. I know that he had season ending knee surgery..well so did Dvorak a couple seasons ago and now he has a bad wrist, and then Smitty has bad shoulders, and York has bad wrists and Smith has bad shoulders and Hemsky has had a concussion and the list can continue forever.

If you can name a couple of safer bets than Pitkanen I would love to hear them.

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11-05-2003, 09:08 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Oi'll say!, you haven't followed Pitkanen much, so best not into a debate about how good or not good you think he is. And if you are not totally knowledgeable about the seriousness of each injury then how can you call him injury prone. I know that he had season ending knee surgery..well so did Dvorak a couple seasons ago and now he has a bad wrist, and then Smitty has bad shoulders, and York has bad wrists and Smith has bad shoulders and Hemsky has had a concussion and the list can continue forever.

If you can name a couple of safer bets than Pitkanen I would love to hear them.
Jaybo is a safer pick, but I can't think of too many myself.

I wouldn't give up Brewer for Pitkanen right now, as Brewer has proven a lot more so far. We will see how much Pitkanen develops in the near future.

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11-05-2003, 09:38 AM
  #159
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Okay, let's look beyond the hype-machines here a second:

Brewer, Bouwmeester, and Pitkanen are all good young defensemen, but they have one thing in common - they all make rookie mistakes, and they all aren't at their peak. While it's easy to come here and say Brewer will be the next Jovo, Bouwmeester the next Lidstrom, and Pitkanen the next Gonchar, I think it's a bit much to suggest it for now.

I would say out of the three, I think Pitkanen will be the best of the three (I'm partial to offense-defensemen). But I don't think any of them are going to win Norris trophies. Nor do I think they will be the best defensemen in the league at any point, either.

Let's not forget, about 7 years ago, people were saying:

Jovo = The next Stevens, Phillips = The next Rod Langway, and Berard = The next Leetch.

Out of those three, only one really became a great player in this league (Jovanovski).

This is not to say Brewer, Bouwmeester, and Pitkanen are no good. Just that while some may think that they have great futures, their trade value should never include 'future Norris winner' as a footnote.

(PS: Just got an E-mail this morning from a buddy. He tells me he hears the Flyers rumours are bunk, but the Yotes rumours could be very true! Not sure if they involve Comrie, though)

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11-05-2003, 10:11 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthFlyer82
I guess you have not watch him then Because Gagnes hands are not the problem, he has great soft hands, hes just been hurt.
Just a difference of opinion...you think he has great hands, I think they're very average. I've seen him plenty, in the world juniors, with the flyers, in the olympics.

His speed is elite, but I don't think he has skill or the offensive instincts that I'd want Lowe to get in return for Comrie.

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11-05-2003, 10:13 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
(PS: Just got an E-mail this morning from a buddy. He tells me he hears the Flyers rumours are bunk, but the Yotes rumours could be very true! Not sure if they involve Comrie, though)
Didn't the Yotes trade Briere because he was too small or did they just really want Gratton?

I can see the Gretzky - Comrie connection, but hope we get a lot more than Kolanos.

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11-05-2003, 10:16 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vb
Didn't the Yotes trade Briere because he was too small or did they just really want Gratton?

I can see the Gretzky - Comrie connection, but hope we get a lot more than Kolanos.
If you notice the fine print, the Coyotes trade "may not involve Comrie"...that makes a Kolanos deal more likely, where we trade one of our lesser players or prospects for a guy like Kolanos.

Bart

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11-05-2003, 12:49 PM
  #163
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Pitkanen

This talk from the Flyers fans about Pitkanen being untouchable is laughable. (maybe look up the definition for untouchable in the dictionary) That or you just have very short memory. Do you remember the last stud d-man that Flyers developed? Do you remember how Bobby Clarke said this same d-man would anchor the flyers for years? In his rookie year he was said to be compared to Lidstrom, only more physical. This dman now plays for the NYIslanders after stopping in Edmonton on the way. Please give your head a shake. If Bobby Clarke had the opportunity to acquire Eric Brewer(who he has an incredible hard-on for) don't think he wouldn't part with Pitkanen. Remember, the Flyers are about now, not the future and Eric Brewer will be a better d-man this season than Pitkanen.

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11-05-2003, 01:04 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barto
If you notice the fine print, the Coyotes trade "may not involve Comrie"...that makes a Kolanos deal more likely, where we trade one of our lesser players or prospects for a guy like Kolanos.

Bart
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11-05-2003, 01:16 PM
  #165
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Just to fuel the speculation, the Flyers just recalled a center from the farm and I don't recall them having any injuries.

Is this a pre-curser?

If they do go after Comrie, it's doubtful he is in the line up immediately.

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11-05-2003, 05:37 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky01
This talk from the Flyers fans about Pitkanen being untouchable is laughable. (maybe look up the definition for untouchable in the dictionary) That or you just have very short memory. Do you remember the last stud d-man that Flyers developed? Do you remember how Bobby Clarke said this same d-man would anchor the flyers for years? In his rookie year he was said to be compared to Lidstrom, only more physical. This dman now plays for the NYIslanders after stopping in Edmonton on the way. Please give your head a shake. If Bobby Clarke had the opportunity to acquire Eric Brewer(who he has an incredible hard-on for) don't think he wouldn't part with Pitkanen. Remember, the Flyers are about now, not the future and Eric Brewer will be a better d-man this season than Pitkanen.
Actually they said the young guys would get more IT this season. Anybody who's watched a Flyers game knows how good this kid is. The past is the past. Pitkanen isn't moving. What's laughable is something that happened almost 10 years ago would lead you to believe this kid is available.

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11-05-2003, 05:38 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
Just to fuel the speculation, the Flyers just recalled a center from the farm and I don't recall them having any injuries.

Is this a pre-curser?

If they do go after Comrie, it's doubtful he is in the line up immediately.
Desjardins has back spasms.

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11-05-2003, 06:21 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
Actually they said the young guys would get more IT this season. Anybody who's watched a Flyers game knows how good this kid is. The past is the past. Pitkanen isn't moving. What's laughable is something that happened almost 10 years ago would lead you to believe this kid is available.
If I remember right, the flyers said the same thing last season and then traded for Kapenen, Amonte and maybe I'm forgetting someone. I didn't say he was availible, I just said he wasn't untouchable.(same situation as Brewer) And yeah, after 10 years, a lot of things change, especially your GM who runs the team and makes the trades(Oh wait, isn't Clarke still the GM). And you seem to be Family or something with Clarke to know that Pitkanen isn't moving. Unlucky Guy, although your opinions show the famiily thinking.

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11-05-2003, 10:01 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Oi'll say!, you haven't followed Pitkanen much, so best not into a debate about how good or not good you think he is. And if you are not totally knowledgeable about the seriousness of each injury then how can you call him injury prone. I know that he had season ending knee surgery..well so did Dvorak a couple seasons ago and now he has a bad wrist, and then Smitty has bad shoulders, and York has bad wrists and Smith has bad shoulders and Hemsky has had a concussion and the list can continue forever.

If you can name a couple of safer bets than Pitkanen I would love to hear them.
Who in North America has seen so much of JP's play Slats? Have you?

This big debate is foolish.

No prospect with two surgeries under his belt is worth a young proven veteran with elite international experience. That's a sucker's bet.

Trading Carter away for Dvorak wasn't risky because Carter was the Oilers' BJ MacDonald of the past decade - a one-trick pony with bloated stats from playing with good linemates. Hence the trade for a sniper with some question marks of his own.

Safer bets than Pitk?

Any highly ranked prospect with less than one major surgery, eg Komisarek, Hamhuis, Woywitka, Suter, Phaneuf, Jbo, Grebeshkov, Coburn... Most of them have less top end potential, but they are all healthy. That's just the list of d-men, there are still forwards and goalies to choose from.

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11-05-2003, 11:00 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
Safer bets than Pitk?

Any highly ranked prospect with less than one major surgery, eg Komisarek, Hamhuis, Woywitka, Suter, Phaneuf, Jbo, Grebeshkov, Coburn... Most of them have less top end potential, but they are all healthy. That's just the list of d-men, there are still forwards and goalies to choose from.
You'd have a hard time finding a lot of people who would take any one of those guys besides JBo before Pitk.....

After seeing a handful of Flyer games this year, I would rank him right up there with JBo as one of the future PREMIER d-men in this league.

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11-06-2003, 01:55 AM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemsky01
If I remember right, the flyers said the same thing last season and then traded for Kapenen, Amonte and maybe I'm forgetting someone. I didn't say he was availible, I just said he wasn't untouchable.(same situation as Brewer) And yeah, after 10 years, a lot of things change, especially your GM who runs the team and makes the trades(Oh wait, isn't Clarke still the GM). And you seem to be Family or something with Clarke to know that Pitkanen isn't moving. Unlucky Guy, although your opinions show the famiily thinking.
I don't remember the Flyers saying anything about playing younger players last season. Maybe something about giving Brendl a chance. Kapanen and Amonte were salary dumps by the Canes and Yotes. Kapanen plays on the 3rd line against the other team's top line and the point on the PP. Amonte's on the first line now and played very well when he came over. I'd take Kap-Amonte over Brendl-Lefebrve anyday.
I hope you're not trying to imply either was a bad trade or that they gave up anything decent for them.

Why would Pitkanen move? If there are no untouchables then he's as close to untouchable as a player can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
Who in North America has seen so much of JP's play Slats? Have you?

No prospect with two surgeries under his belt is worth a young proven veteran with elite international experience. That's a sucker's bet.

Safer bets than Pitk?

Any highly ranked prospect with less than one major surgery, eg Komisarek, Hamhuis, Woywitka, Suter, Phaneuf, Jbo, Grebeshkov, Coburn... Most of them have less top end potential, but they are all healthy. That's just the list of d-men, there are still forwards and goalies to choose from.
I've seen every game he's played so far. He's simply amazing. He's one of the best puck handlers on the team. Pinches at the right time and has become the Flyers best offensive dman already. The Flyers PP working so well this season has a lot to do with him. He's only played 10 games but as long as he doesn't hit a wall 40-50 points isn't out of the question. Pitkanen's health isn't a concern I don't know what information you've been fed.

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11-06-2003, 04:18 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky01
If I remember right, the flyers said the same thing last season and then traded for Kapenen, Amonte and maybe I'm forgetting someone. I didn't say he was availible, I just said he wasn't untouchable.(same situation as Brewer) And yeah, after 10 years, a lot of things change, especially your GM who runs the team and makes the trades(Oh wait, isn't Clarke still the GM). And you seem to be Family or something with Clarke to know that Pitkanen isn't moving. Unlucky Guy, although your opinions show the famiily thinking.
We gave up almost nothing for Kapanen and Amonte. A few picks and a bunch of guys who were on their way out anyways.

Pitkanen isn't moving. He arguably is already the #3 d-man on the team. Creating offense, doing a lot of things no Flyer defenseman has done in years, espically on the power play.

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11-06-2003, 08:42 AM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
I wonder what San Jose would be offering? As with the Kings, it would have to be something significant to make trading Comrie in-conference worthwhile.


I've had the feeling that the Sharks wouldn't part with Marleau, but given his slow start, the Sharks overall problems, and their move towards a rebuilding mode (aren't they? they ought to be...) maybe Marleau is a possibility.

Marleau is actually only a year older than Comrie, so it's not that they need to move *him* for younger talent... but they do need to bring younger talent into their organization. Given the Oilers abundance of young forwards, maybe something could be done.

How about something along the lines of

Comrie + Rita + one of Horcoff, Chimera, Isbister

for

Marleau + one of Toskala or Kiprusoff

I don't think the Sharks are ready to give up Marleau yet. What about Brad Stuart? You'd be trading a possible injury prone player for one with a possible character/attitude problem. The Sharks are already "stacked" (haha) at center. Can this guy play the wing? Whats his face off percentage like? We definitely need scoring, and I hear from the posts you guys need some D. Doesnt' seem like that bad of a trade to me.

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11-06-2003, 08:46 AM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
foxsports huh? isn't that the same outfit that created the laser puck so americans could follow the game... seems like a reliable, unbiased source to me.

that being said, i think that it is a fairly accurate rating. i'd further suggest that pitkanen alone outweighs everything the oilers have in their system (combined). however, take pitkanen out of the equation and the flyers are not looking so good...
Why must people always bring up the "American" equation. If it wasn't for America, there would be no NHL. I always thought the Canadians I have met were good people. Slowly my opinion is being changed. We are not all a bunch of whinning liberals or war hungry conservatives. Some of us are just people who don't need a laser puck to follow hockey. And obviously, Americans didn't like that either.

Please keep your anti-American sentiments to yourself.

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11-06-2003, 09:05 AM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMosher
I don't think the Sharks are ready to give up Marleau yet. What about Brad Stuart? You'd be trading a possible injury prone player for one with a possible character/attitude problem. The Sharks are already "stacked" (haha) at center. Can this guy play the wing? Whats his face off percentage like? We definitely need scoring, and I hear from the posts you guys need some D. Doesnt' seem like that bad of a trade to me.
I think the Oilers would definitely be interested in Brad Stuart. However, I'm really starting to believe that the Oilers need a center to play in between Smyth and Hemsky. I would be surprised if an NHL center isn't coming back in the deal.

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