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The Messier Trade

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Old
05-19-2006, 03:12 PM
  #1
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The Messier Trade

Sorry if it's covered elsewhere in this thread, but I was thinking the other day about how much you hear of the big Gretzky trade from Edmonton and everyone knows a lot of what happened there. I have never heard so much from the Messier trade. Why was Messier traded from the Oilers? Any history for that time period would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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05-19-2006, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Converse
Sorry if it's covered elsewhere in this thread, but I was thinking the other day about how much you hear of the big Gretzky trade from Edmonton and everyone knows a lot of what happened there. I have never heard so much from the Messier trade. Why was Messier traded from the Oilers? Any history for that time period would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Salary dump. After the Gretzky trade it was expected. The owner, Peter Pocklington was a cheap SOB and everybody knew he would sell off all of the talent.

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05-19-2006, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Converse
Sorry if it's covered elsewhere in this thread, but I was thinking the other day about how much you hear of the big Gretzky trade from Edmonton and everyone knows a lot of what happened there. I have never heard so much from the Messier trade. Why was Messier traded from the Oilers? Any history for that time period would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Mess wanted a raise from the Oilers, but he also wanted Edmonton to have a "new" commitment to winning. The saga played out over the summer of 1991. By the time the Canada Cup tourney came around in August, the situation had boiled over. Mess came out and said he no longer wanted to play in Edmonton.

The Rangers, looking to then end "The Curse," swung for the fences and acquired Mess and future considerations (which ended up being Jeff Buekeboom) in October of 1991 for, among others, Bernie Nichols, Louie DeBrusk and Steven Rice.

That's the short version, but I think that may give you an idea of how/why Mess was traded to the Rangers.

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05-19-2006, 03:38 PM
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From what I had heard through the grapevine that off-season, Messier had wanted out. Don't know why, he just wanted out. It showed on the ice, too, during his last season in Edmonton. He missed a considerable part of the season due to injuries, but even when he played, he was not the dominant power forward that won the Hart and Pearson in 1990, and had dominated many years before. He had 15 points in 18 playoff games in 1991 - the worst production pace since his third year in the league.

I don't think Messier even showed up for Oiler training camp in 1991. (Murphy2, Bucky or Ogopogo, can you confirm that for me?)

The Oilers received Bernie Nichols, Steven Rice and Louie Debrusk in exchange. Nichols was, of course, the centre piece. Rice was a young guy a lot of teams liked, a projected second line power forward (think Shayne Corson) or, at worst, a third line grinder. He didn't even develop into that. Debrusk became the fourth line tough guy everyone expected him to be.

To make matters worse, though, Nichols balked at reporting to Edmonton. He liked New York, and didn't want to go to Edmonton. Also, his wife was expecting a child in a couple months. Eventually, he did report, but only after the birth of their child. While he wasn't thrilled to be in Edmonton, Nichols did actually have a pretty good playoff in 1992, centring the Oilers "Pipe Line" with Vincent Damphousse and Joe Murphy. (Murphy likely played the best hockey of his career in the 1992 playoffs). The Oilers made it all the way to the Campbell Conference Final with a relatively young team (I've long maintained that the 1991-92 Oilers could have won multiple Stanley Cups), but were swept by Chicago. All three members of the Pipe Line were gone by the end of the 1992-93 season (Nichols was traded to New Jersey for Zdeno Ciger and Kevin Todd), as was two-way threat Esa Tikannen.

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05-19-2006, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
From what I had heard through the grapevine that off-season, Messier had wanted out. Don't know why, he just wanted out. .
Messier wanted out because Pocklington was a ***** to his players and he was dismantling the team to finance his other businesses. Messier didn't want to play for a jackass, for less money than he could get elsewhere on a team that was being driven in to the ground because its best players were being sold off.

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05-19-2006, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
From what I had heard through the grapevine that off-season, Messier had wanted out. Don't know why, he just wanted out. It showed on the ice, too, during his last season in Edmonton. He missed a considerable part of the season due to injuries, but even when he played, he was not the dominant power forward that won the Hart and Pearson in 1990, and had dominated many years before. He had 15 points in 18 playoff games in 1991 - the worst production pace since his third year in the league.

I don't think Messier even showed up for Oiler training camp in 1991. (Murphy2, Bucky or Ogopogo, can you confirm that for me?)

The Oilers received Bernie Nichols, Steven Rice and Louie Debrusk in exchange. Nichols was, of course, the centre piece. Rice was a young guy a lot of teams liked, a projected second line power forward (think Shayne Corson) or, at worst, a third line grinder. He didn't even develop into that. Debrusk became the fourth line tough guy everyone expected him to be.

To make matters worse, though, Nichols balked at reporting to Edmonton. He liked New York, and didn't want to go to Edmonton. Also, his wife was expecting a child in a couple months. Eventually, he did report, but only after the birth of their child. While he wasn't thrilled to be in Edmonton, Nichols did actually have a pretty good playoff in 1992, centring the Oilers "Pipe Line" with Vincent Damphousse and Joe Murphy. (Murphy likely played the best hockey of his career in the 1992 playoffs). The Oilers made it all the way to the Campbell Conference Final with a relatively young team (I've long maintained that the 1991-92 Oilers could have won multiple Stanley Cups), but were swept by Chicago. All three members of the Pipe Line were gone by the end of the 1992-93 season (Nichols was traded to New Jersey for Zdeno Ciger and Kevin Todd), as was two-way threat Esa Tikannen.
I don't think he did show for the 1992 camp but, again, it was a function of Pocklington being an ***. Everybody knew the deal was coming so there was no shock or surprise.

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05-19-2006, 04:05 PM
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I can't remember if Messier was a no-show at camp or not but I doubt he was there. By the time camp rolled around it was a given that Messier would be traded.

I've also heard through the grapevine that Messier soured big time on the organization and wouldn't or rarely signed anything Oiler related? Reading between the lines I would think he soured on Pocklington. Sather I think, traded Messier to a team he wanted to go to. He was strongly rumoured to come back here for one last hurrah so I think he's still pretty tight with Lowe.

Just think, Messier could have been in the role of Rem Murray had he given it one more kick at the can....

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05-19-2006, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
I don't think he did show for the 1992 camp but, again, it was a function of Pocklington being an ***. Everybody knew the deal was coming so there was no shock or surprise.
Ogo,

Let me just say I hope you never see Pocklington crossing the street when you are driving a vehicle. I enjoy your work too much, and I don't want you to wind up in the big house for vehicular homicide.

Thanks for the info. Like I said before, I remembered reading in the early summer of 1991 that Messier might not be back. Makes sense that a contract dispute/Pocklington's frugality would be involved. Even in the 1990-91 season, you could tell something was wrong beyond just the injuries that forced him to chunks of time early in the season. (Very similar to another player who had a stellar season in 1989-90: Pat LaFontaine. By the time the second half of the 90-91 season rolled around, you could tell just by watching LaFontaine play that he wanted out).

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05-19-2006, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
Ogo,

Let me just say I hope you never see Pocklington crossing the street when you are driving a vehicle. I enjoy your work too much, and I don't want you to wind up in the big house for vehicular homicide.

Thanks for the info. Like I said before, I remembered reading in the early summer of 1991 that Messier might not be back. Makes sense that a contract dispute/Pocklington's frugality would be involved. Even in the 1990-91 season, you could tell something was wrong beyond just the injuries that forced him to chunks of time early in the season. (Very similar to another player who had a stellar season in 1989-90: Pat LaFontaine. By the time the second half of the 90-91 season rolled around, you could tell just by watching LaFontaine play that he wanted out).
I am quite sure that Pocklington's life would be in jeopardy if he ever set foot in Edmonton again. Many people are pissed off at him for destroying the team that dominated the 80s.

I think he hides out in Phoenix these days.

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05-19-2006, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
I think he hides out in Phoenix these days.
So does Sonny Barger.

Messier was the Oilers and always will be - there ought to be a statute of him outside Northlands Arena. Every Oiler who came after him played in the spirit of Mess.

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05-20-2006, 06:43 AM
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Messier was also involved in a paternity suite in the NY state area and it was not in the top ten reasons why---

By heading to NYC it cost him less money and it hurt the case of his model-girlfriend in the money she was asking for at the time.

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05-20-2006, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark
Messier was also involved in a paternity suite in the NY state area and it was not in the top ten reasons why---

By heading to NYC it cost him less money and it hurt the case of his model-girlfriend in the money she was asking for at the time.
so dark the con of mess

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05-21-2006, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
The Oilers made it all the way to the Campbell Conference Final with a relatively young team (I've long maintained that the 1991-92 Oilers could have won multiple Stanley Cups)
How many Stanley Cups can you win in one year?

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05-21-2006, 04:51 PM
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3.

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05-21-2006, 05:33 PM
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It was probably the most upset I've ever been as an Oilers fan. PLUS the other part of the trade was Beukeboom going and some mutt coming back and we lost Graves in September I believe for jack diddly aw dammit what a horrible time.

Honestly, it is the most distasteful thing to hit a sports page that didn't involve Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich.

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05-21-2006, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide
It was probably the most upset I've ever been as an Oilers fan. PLUS the other part of the trade was Beukeboom going and some mutt coming back and we lost Graves in September I believe for jack diddly aw dammit what a horrible time.

Honestly, it is the most distasteful thing to hit a sports page that didn't involve Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich.
Wasn't Luke Richardson compensation for Graves, or was that for someone else?

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05-21-2006, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide
Honestly, it is the most distasteful thing to hit a sports page that didn't involve Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich.
Not sure if more that 5 people here got that reference ... classic.

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05-21-2006, 06:09 PM
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Edmonton acquired Luke Richardson from Toronto in the deal that brought Damphousse to Edmonton and sent Anderson and Fuhr to Toronto.

Graves signed with the New York Rangers as a Group 1 free agent in the summer of 1991. I believe the compensation in the deal was Troy Mallette. Often the compensation packages for Group 1 players proved to be excessive. (Scott Stevens for Brendan Shanahan, Randy MacKay for Troy Crowder, Bryan Marchment for Steven Rice, etc.) This is one time where the compensation wasn't nearly enough.

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05-21-2006, 06:30 PM
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A more detailed account. Scroll down toe "Messier Leaves Edmonton"

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05-21-2006, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
Edmonton acquired Luke Richardson from Toronto in the deal that brought Damphousse to Edmonton and sent Anderson and Fuhr to Toronto.

Graves signed with the New York Rangers as a Group 1 free agent in the summer of 1991. I believe the compensation in the deal was Troy Mallette. Often the compensation packages for Group 1 players proved to be excessive. (Scott Stevens for Brendan Shanahan, Randy MacKay for Troy Crowder, Bryan Marchment for Steven Rice, etc.) This is one time where the compensation wasn't nearly enough.
Yes, It was Troy Mallette. Other then taking his shirt of for an Upper Deck hockey card he didnt do anything else to be noticed!

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05-22-2006, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Not sure if more that 5 people here got that reference ... classic.
good one; one is still married to the others wife I think

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05-24-2006, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide
Honestly, it is the most distasteful thing to hit a sports page that didn't involve Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich.
GROOVY BABY!

[IMAGE]http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/peterson_kekich.jpg[/IMAGE]

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05-24-2006, 11:41 AM
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"We didn't swap wives. We swapped lives."

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05-24-2006, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneyp
"We didn't swap wives. We swapped lives."
And the answer alex is the two Yankee(?????) pitchers who swapped wives and kids in the 70's

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05-28-2006, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneyp
"We didn't swap wives. We swapped lives."
Let's catch up with two members of the biggest trade in sports history.

http://orig.clarionledger.com/news/0008/29/29rick.html

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