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NJ/CAR proposal

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Old
11-04-2003, 09:09 AM
  #1
mdhockey211
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NJ/CAR proposal

NJ Gets: C Rod Brind'amour
D Sean Hill



CAR Gets: F Christian Berglund
2nd rd pick in 2004
F Jay Pandolfo
D Victor Uchenkov


NJ gets solid two way center, and solid d man who is a UFA i believe after this year .


CAR gets excellent 3rd line winger in pando and berglund who has potential as well as a solid draft pick and decent defensive prospect

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Old
11-04-2003, 09:11 AM
  #2
Ajacied
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Brind'Amour would cost you a whole lot more and believe me, you do not want Hill.

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Old
11-04-2003, 09:12 AM
  #3
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I like it... but I doubt Jim Rutherford would...

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Old
11-04-2003, 10:19 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdhockey211
NJ Gets: C Rod Brind'amour
D Sean Hill



CAR Gets: F Christian Berglund
2nd rd pick in 2004
F Jay Pandolfo
D Victor Uchenkov
To make it credible change it to

Brind'amour
Hill

1st round pick in 2004
Grant Marshall
David Hale
Christian Berglund

Even that isn't fair player wise, but Carolina saves some $$$.

Lou coun't afford to take on those salaries.

Brind'amour has a no trade; although he'd probably waive it for the Devils.

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Old
11-04-2003, 10:57 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
To make it credible change it to

Brind'amour
Hill

1st round pick in 2004
Grant Marshall
David Hale
Christian Berglund

Even that isn't fair player wise, but Carolina saves some $$$.

Lou coun't afford to take on those salaries.

Brind'amour has a no trade; although he'd probably waive it for the Devils.
Lou would be nuts to trade away Hale and the 1st round pick in 2004 + more for that package IMO.

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Old
11-04-2003, 11:02 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ_Devil_Boy
Lou would be nuts to trade away Hale and the 1st round pick in 2004 + more for that package IMO.
Brind'amour becomes your #1 center and Hill a 4/5 defenseman.

Your not geting him for nothing, unless it's a total salary dump.

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Old
11-04-2003, 11:40 AM
  #7
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Brind'Amour would be a great addition, but not at that cost.

Hill at 4/5 d-man? I'd say 5/6. I'd play Albelin over Hill. This guy takes penalties, and not even good ones. IMO, Lou would still be nuts to give up Hale, 1st + more for these guys.

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Old
11-04-2003, 11:46 AM
  #8
John Flyers Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ_Devil_Boy
Brind'Amour would be a great addition, but not at that cost.

Hill at 4/5 d-man? I'd say 5/6. I'd play Albelin over Hill. This guy takes penalties, and not even good ones. IMO, Lou would still be nuts to give up Hale, 1st + more for these guys.

Hill is far better than Albelin.

Hill can play 20 plus minutes a night. Hill is durable. Hill is one of the few plus players on the Canes this year.

Hill was the ONLY plus player (+4) on the Canes last year to play 55 or more games. This is on a team that five players that were (-20) or worse, and ten players that were (-10) or worse.


You have to give something to get something.

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Old
11-04-2003, 11:47 AM
  #9
Missionhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ_Devil_Boy
Brind'Amour would be a great addition, but not at that cost.

Hill at 4/5 d-man? I'd say 5/6. I'd play Albelin over Hill. This guy takes penalties, and not even good ones. IMO, Lou would still be nuts to give up Hale, 1st + more for these guys.
Well if Lou wants to kill the teams future than yeah he trades them, its fair value wise though.

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Old
11-04-2003, 11:49 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Hill is far better than Albelin.

Hill can play 20 plus minutes a night. Hill is durable. Hill is one of the few plus players on the Canes this year.

Hill was the ONLY plus player (+4) on the Canes last year to play 55 or more games. This is on a team that five players that were (-20) or worse, and ten players that were (-10) or worse.


You have to give something to get something.
Durable doesn't make you a good player though. It maybe a fair trade to some, but I know Lou could get something better for Hale, 1st + more.

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11-04-2003, 11:53 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ_Devil_Boy
Durable doesn't make you a good player though. It maybe a fair trade to some, but I know Lou could get something better for Hale, 1st + more.

Take a look at the +/-.

Plus/Minus is not a good stat to look at when comparing players on different teams, but a very good stat to check players on the same team. When Hill is far and away the best on the Canes it's telling you something.

Hill is much closer to Colin White than he is to Albelin.


The deal would never get done, because the Devils can't afford to take on the salary that Brind'amour & Hill make.

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Old
11-04-2003, 12:04 PM
  #12
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look at the contracts that NJD would get--they would not do the deal

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11-04-2003, 12:06 PM
  #13
Missionhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
The deal would never get done, because the Devils can't afford to take on the salary that Brind'amour & Hill make.
Also the fact the Hale will be a vital part to the team after Stevens retires. He's practically untouchable.

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Old
11-04-2003, 12:22 PM
  #14
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If they could get Brind'Amour without giving up Hale then they might go for it.

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Old
11-04-2003, 01:17 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionHockey
Also the fact the Hale will be a vital part to the team after Stevens retires. He's practically untouchable.
The question maybe though that Brind'amour & Hill could get the team another Cup or two before Stevens retires.

I also disagree with you on Hale's worth.

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Old
11-04-2003, 04:53 PM
  #16
Missionhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
The question maybe though that Brind'amour & Hill could get the team another Cup or two before Stevens retires.

I also disagree with you on Hale's worth.
Well believe what you want but the defense needs to go through some rebuilding. Niedermayer and Rafalski are both over 30, Stevens may retire next year which leaves Colin White who isn't going to be able to carry the blue line.

edit: I was wrong Rafalski is 30 years old but you get my point.

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Old
11-04-2003, 06:15 PM
  #17
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No sale. I love Brind'Amour and even Hill, but it would be too much salary for NJ to take on and I am not trading Hale or any picks.

I would take Vasicek over Brind'Amour but that ain't happening either!

If we could get Brind'Amour and Hill for Adrian Foster and/or Erik Rasmussen, Grant Marshall, Sean Brown, and a half-decent prospect, I would say yes. But the Canes won't go for it and Lou wants to dump salary.

Now, any chance we could get Yanic Perreault or Jan Bulis and Sheldon Souray in NJ? What would it take? At least these guys are affordable to the Devs.

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Old
11-04-2003, 08:25 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdhockey211
NJ Gets: C Rod Brind'amour
D Sean Hill



CAR Gets: F Christian Berglund
2nd rd pick in 2004
F Jay Pandolfo
D Victor Uchenkov


NJ gets solid two way center, and solid d man who is a UFA i believe after this year .


CAR gets excellent 3rd line winger in pando and berglund who has potential as well as a solid draft pick and decent defensive prospect
There is no way Carolina does this. No way at all.

 
Old
11-04-2003, 08:26 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
The only guy I want from Carolina is Vasicek, big, young centerman who really impressed in crunch time during the 2002 playoffs.
He stays. Looks like he is finally coming into his own.

 
Old
11-05-2003, 04:20 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionHockey
Well believe what you want but the defense needs to go through some rebuilding. Niedermayer and Rafalski are both over 30, Stevens may retire next year which leaves Colin White who isn't going to be able to carry the blue line.

edit: I was wrong Rafalski is 30 years old but you get my point.
30 is not old for an NHL defenseman. Niedermayer & Rafalski each have at least 5 more good years, if not more than that.

Even Stevens could be an effective defenseman for another 2+ years if he chose to keep playing.

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11-05-2003, 04:18 PM
  #21
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hill better than albelin

even as a hardcore devils fan, ill take hill over albeline anyday. Albo is ok but there is no need for him, he really dosent contribute anything now a days. Hill is solikd 4-5 d man.

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Old
11-05-2003, 06:19 PM
  #22
Missionhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
30 is not old for an NHL defenseman. Niedermayer & Rafalski each have at least 5 more good years, if not more than that.
Your probably right but both of them are offensive defenseman and Lou likes to have other defensive defenseman paired along with them. Hale plays a huge part of replacing Stevens as far as physical pressense goes.

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Old
11-05-2003, 06:58 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdhockey211
NJ Gets: C Rod Brind'amour
D Sean Hill



CAR Gets: F Christian Berglund
2nd rd pick in 2004
F Jay Pandolfo
D Victor Uchenkov


NJ gets solid two way center, and solid d man who is a UFA i believe after this year .


CAR gets excellent 3rd line winger in pando and berglund who has potential as well as a solid draft pick and decent defensive prospect
I think that a package of Brind'Amour and Hill could definitely fetch more than what you are offering. I think that for sure the Devils would be interested in Brind'Amour and Hill - they'd probably fit quite well into their system.

I really like Brind'Amour, he's a hard-working leader who is big and strong. He's good on faceoffs, reliable in his own end, a good penalty killer and good offensively. He doesn't get a lot of press because he plays for Carolina, but he's a very solid player - the ideal second line center, IMO. And a ton of NHL teams would like to get him if he were available and there would be many generous offers for him. He alone could probably get that package you're offering and more.

Hill is an underrated defenseman who plays a gritty, tough game. He can handle the puck and has a pretty potent shot. The Devils don't have as deep a defense as they once did, so I can see them liking a veteran like Hill.

Berglund looks like he could be a solid player, but he's got a ways to go. Pandolfo is a good third liner, but Carolina has plenty of those. Uchetov (or whatever his name is) is not a great prospect by any means and doesn't hold that high of trade value. And a second round pick doesn't hold much value either.

Here's my counter-proposal:

To Carolina:

Jeff Friesen (LW)
Paul Martin (D)
Petr Vrana (C)
2nd round pick


To New Jersey:

Rod Brind'Amour (C)
Sean Hill (D)


Painful price, I'm sure, but Brind'Amour is a valuable asset who is locked up long term and who would be in high demand by a lot of NHL teams if he were available.

 
Old
11-05-2003, 07:42 PM
  #24
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i wouldn't trade friesen alone for brindy and hill

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Old
11-05-2003, 08:02 PM
  #25
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Sean Hill is a Hurricane. It's pretty much not going to change. No team in the league in their right mind would give this guy a shot after the whole St. Louis fiasco. He had a 40+ point season, left Carolina as a UFA and signed with St.Louis at around $2 million a year, and proceeded to stink up their blueline. Hill is the type of player that needs at least 20 minutes of icetime a night in order to feel like he is contributing and thus, motivated. He has an underrated shot from the point and is serviceable on the powerplay, except for the fact that he could possibly negate it with his propensity towards taking mindless penalties. He's the type of guy you like to have on your team when there is a star player making too much noise on the scoresheet as well, a dirty facet of the game, yet still a facet of the game. He has the reputation of a total patsy due to the fact that he takes runs at players and is unable to fight due to the half shield and the metal plate in his head. Even with all his downsides, he is quite solid on positioning and isn't afraid at all to throw well timed checks. I'd equate his value to somewhere around a 2nd-3rd round pick and that might be generous.

Rod Brind'Amour is the essential 2nd line center that every team in the league says "would fit perfectly" anywhere. However, I think his value to the devils would be significant due to the fact that he plays a game like Bobby Holik and that has been something the devils have missed since his departure. This is where the bulk of the weight in the trade would come from. Brindy does everything that is asked of him and is one of the premiere faceoff men in the league. His offensive creativity is evident, but often not exploited due to the fact that he plays mostly with the psuedo-power forwards and unproven snipers of the team. We have to remember that Brind'Amour once scored a point a game with the Blues for a few seasons. I think Brind'Amour's value, due to his long contract at a fairly bargain basement price and his top notch leadership, would be pretty comperable to Jeff Friesen and Paul Martin. Friesen seems to be the type of Jeff O'Neill player that would put up some decent numbers in Carolina. Martin would give us a pretty good mid-level prospect to bring up through the ranks when our older defenseman start playing like older defensemen. So, here would be my offer.

To Carolina:

F Jeff Friesen
D Paul Martin
2004 2nd Round Pick

To New Jersey:

C Rod Brind'Amour
D Sean Hill

If this were the offer on the table, i'd probably have a hard time saying no. With that said, Brind'Amour is the consumate professional and I doubt that JR would ever make the mistake that Philidelphia made in letting him walk. Considering 9/10 Flyers fans would take that trade back to this very day.

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