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Old
05-22-2006, 04:53 AM
  #1
Hlavac
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Kindl sign

great

http://www.redwingscentral.com/stori...ectsWatch.html

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05-22-2006, 05:14 AM
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Yeah, I saw that, too. RWC is right on top of things as usual. This signing and the agreement with Liv starts our offseason very nicely.

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05-22-2006, 06:14 AM
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It's going to be tough for him to crack the lineup this year if they bring back Lidstrom and nobody gets traded or injured. They've already got 4 guys that are primarily offensive defensemen, and it's not likely there will be room for another unless he plays absolutely lights-out in camp and the preseason. Give him another year or two of seasoning and then when Nick and/or Schneider are gone there will be plenty of room. Assuming Holland doesn't do something incredibly stupid like trading for Gonchar or giving McCabe a gigantic contract.

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05-22-2006, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
It's going to be tough for him to crack the lineup this year if they bring back Lidstrom and nobody gets traded or injured. They've already got 4 guys that are primarily offensive defensemen, and it's not likely there will be room for another unless he plays absolutely lights-out in camp and the preseason. Give him another year or two of seasoning and then when Nick and/or Schneider are gone there will be plenty of room. Assuming Holland doesn't do something incredibly stupid like trading for Gonchar or giving McCabe a gigantic contract.

Nothing wrong with having the defensive corps filled with offensive defensive. Off hand I'd say have to agree you and that he ends up playing jr for another season, but much can happen between now and training camp. I have to believe the Wings believe there is a chance, however slim, that he can make the roster out of training camp or there would be little reason to give him a contract for another year.

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05-22-2006, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain
Nothing wrong with having the defensive corps filled with offensive defensive. Off hand I'd say have to agree you and that he ends up playing jr for another season, but much can happen between now and training camp. I have to believe the Wings believe there is a chance, however slim, that he can make the roster out of training camp or there would be little reason to give him a contract for another year.
Well, one thing wrong with having 5 offensive defensemen on your defense is that nobody plays any defense and a team like Edmonton completely obliterates you in the first round. It's good to have defenders who chip in, but the teams left in the playoffs are proving that it's much better to have guys that think defense first.

They need to have a balance between the two, and with Kindl, Lidstrom, Schneider, Kronwall, and possibly Lebda on the team, it is impossible to have that balance.

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05-22-2006, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sarcastro
Well, one thing wrong with having 5 offensive defensemen on your defense is that nobody plays any defense and a team like Edmonton completely obliterates you in the first round. It's good to have defenders who chip in, but the teams left in the playoffs are proving that it's much better to have guys that think defense first.

They need to have a balance between the two, and with Kindl, Lidstrom, Schneider, Kronwall, and possibly Lebda on the team, it is impossible to have that balance.

The Wings have two glaring issues on defense. The first is that they turn the puck over easily in their own end and secondly, they're really bad at clearing the front of the net. Our guys could never setup shop in front of their net the way they were able to setup shop in front of our net.

I think we can agree that winning teams get their offense from the blueline as well as from their forward corps. I think we would also agree that if you have a mix of both types, then it's ideal to pair them up as you stated. However, the optimum position is pair two offensive defensemen and the worse thing would be to pair two defensive defensemen. Balance is achieved as long as they coordinate their efforts. Could you argue that pairing two Lidstroms could under any circumstance be a defensive liability?

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05-22-2006, 09:24 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Captain
The Wings have two glaring issues on defense. The first is that they turn the puck over easily in their own end and secondly, they're really bad at clearing the front of the net. Our guys could never setup shop in front of their net the way they were able to setup shop in front of our net.

I think we can agree that winning teams get their offense from the blueline as well as from their forward corps. I think we would also agree that if you have a mix of both types, then it's ideal to pair them up as you stated. However, the optimum position is pair two offensive defensemen and the worse thing would be to pair two defensive defensemen. Balance is achieved as long as they coordinate their efforts. Could you argue that pairing two Lidstroms could under any circumstance be a defensive liability?
This doesn't really make sense. 2 offensive defensemen are definitely not a good thing if they both pinch and nobody is left to mind the store in front. Likewise, 2 defensive guys aren't a good thing if they can't make good outlet passes. The ideal is to have one offensive guy who can pinch and contribute offensively and still hold his own at least positionally on defense, and have one guy who stays back to cover for his partner and can clear the crease when opposing forwards (see:Oilers '06) are all over your goalie.

Having 2 Nicks on the ice at once would be terrible, because the opposing forwards could do whatever they want around the net. As good as Nick is with his stick at breaking up entry into the zone and cross-ice passes (or WAS good, before these playoffs...), he is completely ineffective at muscling guys out of the crease. That's just not his game - so it's important to pair him with a guy who CAN do that. In most cases, you're not going to find a guy who's strong enough to clear the crease and also be a great offensive defenseman. But you need a defender who is strong, mobile, and can make a good first pass, bare minimum, if you're going to have a successful pair with Lidstrom. Lilja doesn't have effective strength, he's sort of mobile, and he's not really a good passer, so he's a bad partner for Nick to have to drag around the ice.

The main issue I saw with the Wings' defense in the playoffs is that it didn't do enough defending. And that's the #1 priority of the defense - to defend. Offense should be secondary. Still very important, but defense is implicit in the name defenseman. And the Wings could definitely use more guys that play defense first, and offense second. Kindl would not be one of these types at this point, and it doesn't really look like he'll be that kind of defenseman at any point. That's ok, but they still need the defensive types, and they just don't have them right now.

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05-22-2006, 09:26 AM
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This team have won titles with guys like Rouse, Macoun, Ramsey, Duchesne and Olausson on their blueline. You don't need 6 all-world guys back there...just guys that know what they're doing. Expecting a young defenseman to make an immediate impact is a little unreasonable...at least if you're trying to win a Stanley Cup and you're not just building for the future. It would probably be wise to let Kindl get a year or two in the AHL.

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05-22-2006, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoalzie
This team have won titles with guys like Rouse, Macoun, Ramsey, Duchesne and Olausson on their blueline. You don't need 6 all-world guys back there...just guys that know what they're doing. Expecting a young defenseman to make an immediate impact is a little unreasonable...at least if you're trying to win a Stanley Cup and you're not just building for the future. It would probably be wise to let Kindl get a year or two in the AHL.
Kindl is still eligible for the OHL right? Hudler could play in the AHL as a 19 year old but I'm not sure Kindl is allowed to.

But NHL is asking too much for Kindl. Especially since we are talking about Detroit here. Quincey is more NHL ready at this point than Kindl and I don't think he's going to be a regular next year.

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05-22-2006, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffey77
Kindl is still eligible for the OHL right? Hudler could play in the AHL as a 19 year old but I'm not sure Kindl is allowed to.

But NHL is asking too much for Kindl. Especially since we are talking about Detroit here. Quincey is more NHL ready at this point than Kindl and I don't think he's going to be a regular next year.
Still OHL eligible, so the one place he won't be is GR next season.

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05-22-2006, 11:33 AM
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I don't think we'll see him in the NHL next year unless he blows everyone away at training camp. It would be wise to let him get more experience at any level other than the NHL. Fischer kind of got rushed into the NHL but he also had all-world guys playing around him. Playing on a great team as a rookie really doesn't put in the line of fire because the others will clean up the mess. I would much rather see a younger player in a bigger role when they start out so they experience more in game action. Playing a rookie defenseman only 10 minutes a night won't teach them a lot of stuff on the ice...most of his lessons would come from the bench and in practice. If Kindl is going to be on the Wings roster, I'd like to see him put into a role similar to Kronwall...playing in the top 4 and getting power play time. Until he shows he's ready to play in the NHL, just let him get some further season in juniors or in the AHL when the time comes.

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Old
05-22-2006, 01:02 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by sarcastro
This doesn't really make sense. 2 offensive defensemen are definitely not a good thing if they both pinch and nobody is left to mind the store in front.
It makes perfect sense and works so long as both don't join the rush at the same time. Perfect sense.

Having two nicks at the same time would be terrible?

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05-22-2006, 01:09 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffey77
Kindl is still eligible for the OHL right? Hudler could play in the AHL as a 19 year old but I'm not sure Kindl is allowed to.

But NHL is asking too much for Kindl. Especially since we are talking about Detroit here. Quincey is more NHL ready at this point than Kindl and I don't think he's going to be a regular next year.

You're right, he can't be assigned to the AHL. It's the NHL or bust (until next season).

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05-22-2006, 01:49 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Captain
It makes perfect sense and works so long as both don't join the rush at the same time. Perfect sense.

Having two nicks at the same time would be terrible?
Having two nicks would be good. Having them on the ice at the same time would be bad. Maybe 5 or 10 years ago when Nick was younger, it wouldn't have been that bad. But look at the Oilers series. Nick couldn't do anything to stop the Oiler forecheckers from flying around him, and he couldn't muscle them out of the slot. You put two guys like that together and it's ugly. Sure, they'd put up some points, but they'd give up a ton of goals too. You need a crease-clearer to go with Nick, because he can't do it.

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