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Old
05-24-2006, 12:16 PM
  #1
toshiro
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Edmonton Oilers

Hopefully Gainey is studying Lowe to learn how to build a team. Speed speed speed

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05-24-2006, 12:20 PM
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La Grosse Tendresse
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All Lowe did was get better rentals than Gainey. While BG got Todd Simpson and Aaron Downey, Lowe got Roloson, Samsonov and Spacek.

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05-24-2006, 12:23 PM
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Not exactly correct. Roloson was huge but isn't better than Huet.

What the Oilers have now is more grit than any other team I have seen in a long time. Grit and Speed with some well placed skill.

Good formula.

Also remember that although Lowe picked up Roloson, Samsonov, and Spacek, Pronger and Peca were the first pieces of the puzzle.

The build of the team has been long in process, it didn't magically appear at the deadline. Samsonov and Spacek have been good but don't lead the team. It was what was in place before them. They are nice compliments but not the end all beat all.

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05-24-2006, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by toshiro
Hopefully Gainey is studying Lowe to learn how to build a team. Speed speed speed

umm...isn't that what this team is built on?

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05-24-2006, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by toshiro
Hopefully Gainey is studying Lowe to learn how to build a team. Speed speed speed
Not only speed speed speed

But also clutch clutch clutch and grit grit grit

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05-24-2006, 12:32 PM
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The Oilers are filled with players like Steve Begin, only they are better.

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05-24-2006, 12:37 PM
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Cinderella team. This team could actually miss the playoffs next season.

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05-24-2006, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by toshiro
Hopefully Gainey is studying Lowe to learn how to build a team. Speed speed speed
I like them a lot and I like their style, but lets be honest.

It seems they can do no wrong, but it's not like they are overpowering anybody... They are SO opportunistic it's almost unbelivable. It's like they convert every time there is a scoring chance...

At the pace they are at, both Peca and Pisani will score more goals in the playoffs than they did in a 82 season game...

They get badly outshot in this series.

Sure they have speed, but what makes the difference is their hot goaltender and their being opportunistic.

It's the classic exemple of every pieces falling at the right place at the right time. They got hot when it mattered.

Let's face it, if we had a team like they do, we would probably have been very disapointed all season long. They entered in post season going backward, and (almost) nobody gave them a chance against the Red Wings...

They are paying 4 millions for a guy that made 23 points in the season. I can't begin to imagine how many thread about crucifying the player there would have been if somebody earning 4 millions with the habs had only 23 points this season.

They are a good team, but are they that much better than the habs ? What happens to the Oilers if in game 3 against Detroit they loose either Horcoff, or Ryan Smyth, for the rest of the series ? Are they still there ?

The Oilers are about as good as the habs IMHO. They got hot at the right time, and they got the bounces go their way instead of getting hammered by bad luck.

And boy is Rollie hot

He made some unbelievable saves along the way it's hard to believe. Game 3 against SJ, in OT, the Oilers are trailing 2-0 in the series, Cheechoo is set up perfectly in the slot and Rollie robs him with an incredible glove save. Just wow

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05-24-2006, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AH
Cinderella team. This team could actually miss the playoffs next season.

Don't mean to troll or anything (montreal is my 2nd fav team) but have you even watched the oilers this season?

The team has a very solid core of players: Pronger, Smith, Horcoff, Smyth, Peca, Pisani, Hemsky etc even before you count in Samsonov and Spacek.

Anyone who watched the team all year knew they were just a goalie away from being quite dominant. The oil only finished a couple points out of 1st in the Northwest. Barring another goalie crises They will make the playoffs next year.

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05-24-2006, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nols
Don't mean to troll or anything (montreal is my 2nd fav team) but have you even watched the oilers this season?

The team has a very solid core of players: Pronger, Smith, Horcoff, Smyth, Peca, Pisani, Hemsky etc even before you count in Samsonov and Spacek.

Anyone who watched the team all year knew they were just a goalie away from being quite dominant. The oil only finished a couple points out of 1st in the Northwest. Barring another goalie crises They will make the playoffs next year.
I actually think the Oilers are better than Calgary.

They have a good team, and I have no doubt they will be in the postseason next year.

I think just like the Habs, the Oilers are a good team and are getting better.

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05-24-2006, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AH
Cinderella team. This team could actually miss the playoffs next season.
Doubt it. But you agree they will beat Anaheim now?

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05-24-2006, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jester099
I like them a lot and I like their style, but lets be honest.

It seems they can do no wrong, but it's not like they are overpowering anybody... They are SO opportunistic it's almost unbelivable. It's like they convert every time there is a scoring chance...

At the pace they are at, both Peca and Pisani will score more goals in the playoffs than they did in a 82 season game...

They get badly outshot in this series.

Sure they have speed, but what makes the difference is their hot goaltender and their being opportunistic.

It's the classic exemple of every pieces falling at the right place at the right time. They got hot when it mattered.

Let's face it, if we had a team like they do, we would probably have been very disapointed all season long. They entered in post season going backward, and (almost) nobody gave them a chance against the Red Wings...

They are paying 4 millions for a guy that made 23 points in the season. I can't begin to imagine how many thread about crucifying the player there would have been if somebody earning 4 millions with the habs had only 23 points this season.

They are a good team, but are they that much better than the habs ? What happens to the Oilers if in game 3 against Detroit they loose either Horcoff, or Ryan Smyth, for the rest of the series ? Are they still there ?

The Oilers are about as good as the habs IMHO. They got hot at the right time, and they got the bounces go their way instead of getting hammered by bad luck.

And boy is Rollie hot

He made some unbelievable saves along the way it's hard to believe. Game 3 against SJ, in OT, the Oilers are trailing 2-0 in the series, Cheechoo is set up perfectly in the slot and Rollie robs him with an incredible glove save. Just wow
Good post though i disagree with some of it.

The biggest difference between MTL and Edm imo is on Defence and grit. Edmonton has way better guys in the back end imo. I simply look at Pronger who eats like 30 min of ice time a night, throw in guys like Smith, Spacek, Begeron and Staois and you have the leagues # 1 shot blocking defence.

Up front, the oil have two young and talented 2 way centers in Stoll and Horcoff who are flanked by talented wingers like Sammy and Hemsky as well as a banger like Torres and of course Ryan Smyth. THis team isint one dimensional, all faucets of hockey are visible in the oil. Lets not forget the role players on the 3rd/4th lines: Peca, Moreau, Pisani, Dvorak, Laraque, Harvey....

Montreal on the other hand always seems to have goaltending, which is a good start, a team needs to be built from the net out. I think the two missing peices of Montreals puzzle are a Stud on D (maybe try and pull one of the big guys outta Ott?) and a bigger 2 way centerman. Ribeiro and Koivu are quite small. Ribeiro has never struck me as too physical or gritty and Koivu is often plagued with injury.

Just my opinion.

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05-24-2006, 01:01 PM
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toshiro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordchezz
umm...isn't that what this team is built on?
Chipper wont win any footraces

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05-24-2006, 01:07 PM
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The players Edmonton picked up are far costlier than the trifling signings Gainey made. However, Gainey, should be in a better position than Lowe to make significant signings before next season starts.

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05-24-2006, 01:07 PM
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The Oilers are burying each of their chances...that,s being clutch.

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05-24-2006, 01:10 PM
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The Oilers are burying each of their chances...that,s being clutch.
It's the only way anyone wins in the playoffs. That and good goaltending.

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05-24-2006, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Nols
Good post though i disagree with some of it.

The biggest difference between MTL and Edm imo is on Defence and grit. Edmonton has way better guys in the back end imo. I simply look at Pronger who eats like 30 min of ice time a night, throw in guys like Smith, Spacek, Begeron and Staois and you have the leagues # 1 shot blocking defence.

Up front, the oil have two young and talented 2 way centers in Stoll and Horcoff who are flanked by talented wingers like Sammy and Hemsky as well as a banger like Torres and of course Ryan Smyth. THis team isint one dimensional, all faucets of hockey are visible in the oil.

Montreal on the other hand always seems to have goaltending, which is a good start, a team needs to be built from the net out. I think the two missing peices of Montreals puzzle are a Stud on D (maybe try and pull one of the big guys outta Ott?) and a bigger 2 way centerman. Ribeiro and Koivu are quite small. Ribeiro has never struck me as too physical or gritty and Koivu is often plagued with injury.

Just my opinion.
I agree there are some differences on how the teams are built, I only wanted to say I thought Edmonton and the Habs were teams of comparable overall strenght.

The Ds are built differently, but I think overall Montreal's top 6 is probably comparable to Edmonton's top 6, with Edmonton having the better players but Montreal having more depth. I think both Markov and Bouillon are very underrated. And having a guy like Dandenault or Rivet or Komisarek (whichever way you want to classify them) as your 5th D shows a lot of depth (with Bouillon as 6th).

Montreal can get better up front, that's for sure, but they are very young and with some key replacements, they could be very good in a matter of years. Higgins could become a Smyth style player that would make a huge positive impact on this team, and players like Perezhogin, Kovalev, Koivu bring good skills as well. We have grit in Begin and Murray, and scoring touch in Ryder... We have a little bit of everything...

All that to say the Habs have a great foundation to build on

Just like the Oilers who will still try to improve some aspect of their team I'm sure.

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05-24-2006, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Nols
Good post though i disagree with some of it.

The biggest difference between MTL and Edm imo is on Defence and grit. Edmonton has way better guys in the back end imo. I simply look at Pronger who eats like 30 min of ice time a night, throw in guys like Smith, Spacek, Begeron and Staois and you have the leagues # 1 shot blocking defence.
That's a real good point. Having Pronger makes the rest of the Oilers' defencemen better because they can play minutes suitable to their talent level. If Pronger was out then all of the sudden the Oilers' defencemen have to start playing over their heads. Adding Pronger turns an average to above-average defence into one of the best in the league. Montreal could use that kind of player to elevate their defence in a similar way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nols
Up front, the oil have two young and talented 2 way centers in Stoll and Horcoff who are flanked by talented wingers like Sammy and Hemsky as well as a banger like Torres and of course Ryan Smyth. THis team isint one dimensional, all faucets of hockey are visible in the oil. Lets not forget the role players on the 3rd/4th lines: Peca, Moreau, Pisani, Dvorak, Laraque, Harvey....
The role players are the key here. Peca and Pisani are providing the secondary scoring that Montreal is always missing in the playoffs. Secondary scoring can help win games when your top players are shut down or when your goalie lets you down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nols
Montreal on the other hand always seems to have goaltending, which is a good start, a team needs to be built from the net out. I think the two missing peices of Montreals puzzle are a Stud on D (maybe try and pull one of the big guys outta Ott?) and a bigger 2 way centerman. Ribeiro and Koivu are quite small. Ribeiro has never struck me as too physical or gritty and Koivu is often plagued with injury.

Just my opinion.
Another good point. Montreal lacks the depth at centre to be effective in the playoffs. Koivu is great for the playoffs but I don't think Ribeiro will ever be able to help the Habs get anywhere in the post season. Horcoff and Stoll are hardly elite centres, but they have the speed and grit to play and be effective in the playoffs. Ribeiro will never be that kind of player.

One thing you forgot is special teams. The Oilers' power play and penalty kill have been fantastic in the playoffs. It's winning them games right now.

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05-24-2006, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nols
Good post though i disagree with some of it.

The biggest difference between MTL and Edm imo is on Defence and grit. Edmonton has way better guys in the back end imo. I simply look at Pronger who eats like 30 min of ice time a night, throw in guys like Smith, Spacek, Begeron and Staois and you have the leagues # 1 shot blocking defence.

Up front, the oil have two young and talented 2 way centers in Stoll and Horcoff who are flanked by talented wingers like Sammy and Hemsky as well as a banger like Torres and of course Ryan Smyth. THis team isint one dimensional, all faucets of hockey are visible in the oil. Lets not forget the role players on the 3rd/4th lines: Peca, Moreau, Pisani, Dvorak, Laraque, Harvey....

Montreal on the other hand always seems to have goaltending, which is a good start, a team needs to be built from the net out. I think the two missing peices of Montreals puzzle are a Stud on D (maybe try and pull one of the big guys outta Ott?) and a bigger 2 way centerman. Ribeiro and Koivu are quite small. Ribeiro has never struck me as too physical or gritty and Koivu is often plagued with injury.

Just my opinion.
Agreed!

Not to mention the depth of the team on defense and offense. Smyth, Horcoff and Hemsky have not played that well in Game 2 and Game 3 of the Anaheim series, and I'm sure at least two of the three are ill. Still, there's enough skill, grit and will from the likes of Peca, Pisani, Samsonov and the defense and this Oiler team has found a way to win every game of this series so far. Even the fourth line of Laraque, Murray and Peterson chipped in nicely in game 3, culminating in a goal which is nice considering that this line is a best a passable fourth line. The Oilers have done a great job of persevering and drawing the best out of unlikely sources like Peterson, Winchester and Pisani.

I don't think the Canadiens quite have this level of somewhat surprising competitiveness shown by the Oilers, though the Habs are pretty close, like many other teams in the league. I know it's being trumped incessantly, but there really does appear to be increasing parity in the league - most teams are a few pieces away from being a contender, which could be found in prospects, free agents or trades. Every team remaining in the playoffs has utilized every one of these avenues to shore up their team.

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05-24-2006, 01:29 PM
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I was just going to post that...

The only reason the oilers are alive right now is their special teams...God Damn they block all the shots before it goes to rollie.I watched mostly all of the oilers post-season games and an extremely large portion of the praise has to go to their Pk teams...seriously we should watch how they kill penalties...

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05-24-2006, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nols
Don't mean to troll or anything (montreal is my 2nd fav team) but have you even watched the oilers this season?

The team has a very solid core of players: Pronger, Smith, Horcoff, Smyth, Peca, Pisani, Hemsky etc even before you count in Samsonov and Spacek.

Anyone who watched the team all year knew they were just a goalie away from being quite dominant. The oil only finished a couple points out of 1st in the Northwest. Barring another goalie crises They will make the playoffs next year.
I said the team could miss the playoffs. Both conferences are tight and too close to call since there are a lot of teams vying for 8 spots. The Oilers are going to be in the hunt. What do you call a team that finished 8th and goes to the Finals? You call them a Cinderella team. If this were the Wings or Dallas, this type of post season would have been a normal course of events following a great regular season. Going into next season, neither Dallas or Detroit would have been on the list of teams that could miss the playoffs, but that is not the case for Edmonton.

There are no guarantees that all these guys play the same way next season. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest Roloson continues to play hot through an 82 game schedule at the age of 37.

I am not denying what they have done thus far, but too many guys are having career runs during these playoffs. It's funny that the people in this thread are awing at the amount of heart the Oilers are showing, when in fact just over a month ago (in the last week of the regular season before the playoff spot was clinched), you could find numerous threads on the Oilers board complaining about the lack of heart and desire on the team. This team is no different than the 1994 Canucks or the 2002 Hurricanes or the 2003 Ducks. All three teams came close, but then ended up missing the playoffs the following year.

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05-24-2006, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by NewGuy
One thing you forgot is special teams. The Oilers' power play and penalty kill have been fantastic in the playoffs. It's winning them games right now.
Yeah, on special teams, the Oilers managed to match the Red Wings (no easy task) and dominate the Sharks and take advantage of the few chances the impressive Anaheim PK allow.

Edmonton's PP hasn't been that great against Anaheim, but like the Oilers' other chances, we've taken advantage of their few defensive breakdowns.

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05-24-2006, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ikcotyck
Edmonton's PP hasn't been that great against Anaheim, but like the Oilers' other chances, we've taken advantage of their few defensive breakdowns.
Edmonton is 4/16 (25%) on the power play against Anaheim. That is great, especially in a series that has been so close. Edmonton is also 19/20 (95%) on the penalty kill against Anaheim. They also have a shorthanded goal. So essentially Edmonton has been able to score on Anaheim's power plays at the same rate Anaheim has. That is amazing.

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05-24-2006, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ikcotyck

I don't think the Canadiens quite have this level of somewhat surprising competitiveness shown by the Oilers, though the Habs are pretty close, like many other teams in the league. I know it's being trumped incessantly, but there really does appear to be increasing parity in the league - most teams are a few pieces away from being a contender, which could be found in prospects, free agents or trades. Every team remaining in the playoffs has utilized every one of these avenues to shore up their team.
That is so true, but I think the new staff in place will take care to bring it / teach it to montreal.

I think it's the kind of thing that is contagious (I can't believe how Samsonov "caught" it after such a short while He's now trowing himself in front of shots... He wasn't doing that in Boston...). We have players like Koivu that already have that mentality, and I'm sure Guy will focus on the giving all to win phylosophy.

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05-24-2006, 01:43 PM
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Watching the 2006 playoffs makes you realize that MTL is probably one of the slowest team in the whole league. Too many slow skaters and a style of play that doesn't help to generate speed either.

I don't want us to gain weight for next season I want us to gain speed and grit.

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