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semi-low risk/big reward?

View Poll Results: Would you take yashin to get the 7th pick overall?
Yes because it gives the Rangers a Top 10 pick 24 29.27%
No, not worth the risk 54 65.85%
Undecided 4 4.88%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-24-2006, 08:50 AM
  #26
Melrose_Jr.
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Is there a package that WOULD make Yashin's contract tolerable? The pick alone isn't going to do it for anyone.

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Old
05-24-2006, 09:01 AM
  #27
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if this rumor was legit, which it isn't...then i'd make the deal in a second and then as soon as the deal was over i'd buyout yashin. the result would be a $2 mil/year cap hit for the next 10 years but how likely is it that you'll max out your cap anyway and a $2 mil cap hit is worth getting the #7 pick (especially since we could probably easily move up from 7 to 4-5 and get toews or staal)...

IF (and its a big if) you feel that you can get a franchise player at the top of this draft then that cap hit would be worth it...i look at it this way, that draft pick will play here for the first 4 years at $850k so $2.85 mil between his salary and the cap hit. to 'steal' a similar caliber player from another team as a free agent will most likely cost us $5-8 mil and that free agent will be 10+ years older. so you are getting a guy 10 years younger and saving $3-6 mil/year.

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05-24-2006, 10:04 AM
  #28
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I make the deal and here's why

Yashin would put up atleast 100 points on the first line centering Jagr and a bag of pucks. Jagr has 1 year left on his contract, 2 if he wins the Hart. How many times did Jagr put the puck on Nylanders stick just to have him shoot wide last year, Yashin buries those.

Nylander has one more year left to center the second line of Sykora and Prucha/Ruchinsky. One Nylander's contract is done, Immonnen or Dubinsky should be ready to step in to the #2 center spot.

The guess is that every year the cap will go up, if that is the case, Yashin becomes tradeable 3 years from now to someone looking for a center, or if the Rangers develop that #1 center that everyone here says they will, he can slide into the #2 spot and not have to play against the other teams top d pairing/checking line. Thus he is more productive.

You are basically getting the big center that the Rangers need and a top 10 pick for nothing, maybe a 4th rounder/future considerations (Jeremy Roenick Trade). Yes his contract is Awful, but like I said, 3 years from now when all of our 'young talent' is ready and he only has a year or two left on his contract, he can be traded.

Yashin makes the team that much deeper up front, and adds another draft pick (top 10). You may be able to package our 21 and the 7 to move into the top 3 to get your pick of players, or move down from there for more picks in a mediocre draft year. It opens a lot more options for a team that is 'rebuilding' and makes them more competitive in the short term as well.

Thoughts?

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Old
05-24-2006, 12:00 PM
  #29
True Blue
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For a fanbase that cried out and demanded accountability and hard work from their players, I cannot believe how many people are pining for Cashin.

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05-24-2006, 12:40 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
Trottier posted a hypothetical transaction where a team would be able to get the Islanders #1 this year (7th overall) so long at they took Yashin's contract Lock, stock and barrell.

Somehow that post was seen by someone who made a comment to the folks over Spector's and that is what the hoopla is all about.
Thanks for clearing my name in this. I threw it ("Yashin and the #7 for...nothing" hypothetical ) out on HF a couple weeks back for kicks. The idea, of course, being that the new NYI GM will very likely be looking for a way - any way - to rid himself of Milbury's albatross. Per ATLANTARANGERS and others, I fully believe that it would take more than just that for any team to take his contract off of NYI's hands. (After much consideration, I tend to think that NYI should simply cut bait and eat the buyout. NYI has to move on, despite the excusemaking and delusions a dwindling number of their fans still hold on to with regard to Captain Courageous.)

If, in fact, my original out-of-thin-air hypothetical was the "source" of the Boston.com and Spectors reports (I'm dubious about that), tells you all you need to know about "journalism" on the Internet (and elsewhere, for that matter).

I'm tempted to post that SingnBluesonBroadway is running for President in '08...to see if it gets picked up by AP and Newsweek.


Last edited by Trottier: 05-24-2006 at 06:39 PM.
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Old
05-24-2006, 01:59 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
For a fanbase that cried out and demanded accountability and hard work from their players, I cannot believe how many people are pining for Cashin.
Jagr was known to take games off and not be very defensively aware before this season as well.......if JJ bought into Renney's system why wouldn't Yashin?

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Old
05-24-2006, 02:10 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr__1994
Jagr was known to take games off and not be very defensively aware before this season as well.......if JJ bought into Renney's system why wouldn't Yashin?
Jagr and Cashin are apples and organges. When Cashin has anything that resembles Jagr's track record, we can have this discussion. Yashin has been an underacheiver virtually his entire career (except for a few shining years in the beginning in Ottawa). Jagr is going to end up with a career that will be amongst the best that the NHL has to offer.
Oh, and taking games off is not the same thing as taking seasons off.

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05-24-2006, 02:14 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Jagr and Cashin are apples and organges. When Cashin has anything that resembles Jagr's track record, we can have this discussion. Yashin has been an underacheiver virtually his entire career (except for a few shining years in the beginning in Ottawa). Jagr is going to end up with a career that will be amongst the best that the NHL has to offer.
Oh, and taking games off is not the same thing as taking seasons off.
Good Point

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Old
05-24-2006, 02:21 PM
  #34
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I agree completely with PLD's posts in this thread.

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05-24-2006, 02:23 PM
  #35
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The big thing is the 7th overall pick. Yashin could become a huge player if he's put with the right guys, but thats not why I started this thread. I'm not interested in yashin too much. I'm interested in that top 10 pick that could land us Staal if we trade up from their or if staal drops down to that spot. This deal would also have to depend on what the Isles want.

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05-24-2006, 02:30 PM
  #36
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The Isles would be in no place to demand what they want.

I would trade something like Ozo and Wiseman for Yashin + the 7th

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05-24-2006, 02:30 PM
  #37
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Not worth...

having the guy around for 5 years at his cost. The 7th is very tempting, but this would be one of those trades that would come back to bite the Rangers in the butt. There may be other creative ways to structure it but it does end up being do the Rangers want Yashin for the next five seasons.

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Old
05-24-2006, 02:55 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
having the guy around for 5 years at his cost. The 7th is very tempting, but this would be one of those trades that would come back to bite the Rangers in the butt. There may be other creative ways to structure it but it does end up being do the Rangers want Yashin for the next five seasons.
Well if he doesn't work out you can waive his *** and send him to the minors. His contract was signed PRE CBA and before he was over 35.

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Old
05-24-2006, 03:21 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier

I'm tempted to post that SingnBluesonBroadway is running for President in '08...to see if it gets picked up by AP and Newsweek.
Well I'm willing to listen to what Singn has to say especially if he's running as a 3rd party candidate. As for Yashin it's still NO.

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Old
05-24-2006, 04:45 PM
  #40
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If that were the case, Jon...

then I'd assume the Isles would do that and avoid dumping his salary and giving something up.

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05-24-2006, 04:51 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
then I'd assume the Isles would do that and avoid dumping his salary and giving something up.
Isles can't afford to do that. They don't have the resources that woudl enable them to put together a roster without him AND have him in the minors getting paid his full salary.

WE do.

Best case scenario for the Fish Sticks is to just buy him out.

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Old
05-24-2006, 10:29 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoothepuck
No way do you bail out the Islanders on this and take on Yashin and his $ for 5 more years.
That says it all... on top of the fact that he is hit or miss and you are locked into a HUGE contract over 5 years - YOURE BAILING THE ISLANDERS OUT OF A BAD MISTAKE THAT WAS MADE EVEN WORSE WHEN THE SALARY CAP WAS INSTITUTED.

dont help them. Please. Let some other poor ******* take the bait.

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Old
05-25-2006, 12:17 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
For a fanbase that cried out and demanded accountability and hard work from their players, I cannot believe how many people are pining for Cashin.
Ya$hin is his nickname

Caps pay some of Jagr’s salary so if the Islanders really wanted to get rid of the contract simply use some of the increased salary cap money to sweeten the deal even further.

1st + $1,000,000 of Yashin’s salary for some token Ranger prospect/player in return.

1st + $1M for a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick so it can’t be viewed as a literal salary dump.

Jagr has a few good-great seasons left in him add in Yashin to the mix and NJ might win in only 5 games

If the salary cap increases each year the buyout becomes that much more plausible.


Although this deal will help a division rival to have a lot of salary to spend on a UFA that the Rangers might want, you get a 1st and the Rangers become stronger then they were last season.

Healthy Jagr and Lund + Yashin could provide quite troublesome for East playoff teams.



Yashin is more of a calculated risk then a semi-low risk with the buyout option available and the fact his numbers should automatically improve if playing with Jagr on the 1st line/ on the PP.

That or the Rangers get a 2nd line centre who improves the overall depth of the team greatly.

It would also be hysterical if the Rangers make this deal/ sign Chara then face the Sens in the playoffs

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Old
05-25-2006, 12:36 AM
  #44
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Sorry, the new CBA forbids cash transfers and teams from picking up a portion of a player's salary when they are traded. The whole idea is to force teams to think twice about signing expensive players to long term contracts. It's pretty simple now in the new NHL--you sign a dud to a long term contract, you're stuck with him--or at the very least a salary cap hit, if you choose to buy him out.

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Old
05-25-2006, 02:41 AM
  #45
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Bad Influences

First of all, I will continue my stance that the league offices would never allow such a trade to materialize.

Regardless, the new question is team culture. A few years ago during the draft special, there was talk about Robbie Schremp (names were omitted, but we could glean this from screen captures of the draft board). Renney's belief was he quite a bit of talent, but not the character to add to the current team. They hinted that if the character/leadership of the current squad was better, they could take someone of questionable demeanor.

Here lies the issue of Yashin. The Rangers haven't righted the character ship, but made great strides last year. The last two acqusitions of last year were people of questionable makeup/desire, but greater talent (Sykora & Ozo...where frankly, I wouldn't like either on a 06-07 roster). Could the Ranger's new atmosphere absord and negate the effect of someone w/ the nickname of "Ya$hin". I say pull the letter off his chest and give him the Lundmark leash.

For the Islanders, the experiment has failed. Peca and a bunch of other lunchpail players hasn't rubbed off on Alexei. The one question mark is did management have anything to do w/ that? Milbury and & Co. sold out coaches and other players for Yashin. With a different and well established Rangers hardline, is he worth it?

After all is said and done, I say an unpopular, "YES". Forget the money and forget the name, think of him as Petr Nedved. Actually, he is basically Petr Nedved. Would I want Petr back, NOPE. But if someone is willing to ship me the #7 pick (true #1 center anyone?) and Nedved, I'd take it. Play Yashin until Christmas and if the same old Alexei/"Petr" is still there, I'll buy the bus ticket to Hartford.

This CBA has few loopholes, but the Rangers are one of the absolute few teams that can afford to have a 7 million dollar player skating in Hartford. If this deal is in the least way possible, I'm all for $7 million for the #7.

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Old
05-26-2006, 10:36 AM
  #46
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I dont think thats a good idea. We don't need Yashin and hes getting paid way to much

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05-28-2006, 02:09 PM
  #47
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The buyout seems to be the most logical way out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Thanks for clearing my name in this. I threw it ("Yashin and the #7 for...nothing" hypothetical ) out on HF a couple weeks back for kicks. The idea, of course, being that the new NYI GM will very likely be looking for a way - any way - to rid himself of Milbury's albatross. Per ATLANTARANGERS and others, I fully believe that it would take more than just that for any team to take his contract off of NYI's hands. (After much consideration, I tend to think that NYI should simply cut bait and eat the buyout. NYI has to move on, despite the excusemaking and delusions a dwindling number of their fans still hold on to with regard to Captain Courageous.)

If, in fact, my original out-of-thin-air hypothetical was the "source" of the Boston.com and Spectors reports (I'm dubious about that), tells you all you need to know about "journalism" on the Internet (and elsewhere, for that matter).

I'm tempted to post that SingnBluesonBroadway is running for President in '08...to see if it gets picked up by AP and Newsweek.
However, I don't see that happening on LI. Why? Milbury is still there! They made another horrible mistake when Wang retained him after moving him from the hockey operation. Right there Wang tells Isle fans he is not going to give anyone free money to walk away. I think it may be a cultural thing. If people are under contract and he fires them and he is still obligated to pay them he wants them to have to earn the money.

I think this is only going to guess worst for the Isles. I feel bad for however comes in. Having that dead weight screws up everything you are trying to instill and turn around. Therein may lie the answer as to why LI doesn't have a GM yet. Milbury & Yashin will still be there and neither should be there for a new GM to be completely effective.

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Old
05-28-2006, 03:39 PM
  #48
Trottier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
However, I don't see that happening on LI. Why? Milbury is still there!...I feel bad for however comes in. Having that dead weight screws up everything you are trying to instill and turn around. Therein may lie the answer as to why LI doesn't have a GM yet. Milbury & Yashin will still be there and neither should be there for a new GM to be completely effective.
I wish I could disagree with you, and if we were having this discussion in February, on the heels of the announcement (of Milbury being "fired" upstairs), I would have been more confident that this was not in fact the case. With each passing week, I tend to get more skeptical, however.

It reasons that any candidate is going to want to feel very comfortable that:

a) he will not be "overseen" in his day-to-day hockey decisions by anyone, least of all a guy who has failed over the last decade.

b) have at least some latitude as it pertains to determining Yashin's future.

Without those two prerequisites, it's simply not an attractive job. In fact, it's a recipe for failure. Wanger is not stupid. His franchise took a step back this season and he made a move. (I'm confident that Milbury did not "offer" to step down; certainly not all by himself.)

However, until Milbury's office in Uniondale is emptied out and the locks are changed, his detrimental impact will continue to plague this franchise off the ice, while Captain Courageous's presence will do same on the ice.

It's like having Rasputin Xs 2. These guys just won't die!


Last edited by Trottier: 05-28-2006 at 05:11 PM.
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Old
05-28-2006, 04:07 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoothepuck
No way do you bail out the Islanders on this and take on Yashin and his $ for 5 more years.
Amen brother! There is no way in hell ANY team should even consider taking on that contract. We'll be in salary cap hell for the next 5 years, not to mention it'd be very hard to see Jags and this slob getting along in the room.

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05-28-2006, 04:17 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoothepuck
No way do you bail out the Islanders on this and take on Yashin and his $ for 5 more years.
You hit the nail on the head.

There are two huge reasons you don't do this deal:

1) You do not allow Wang to get out from under this burden. The moment you release the Isles from Yashin, they're now competing with NYR on more even footing for other talent because they've (a) got the cap room and (b) have rid themselves of the kryptonite in the locker room.

2) You do not bring Carol Alt back to Broadway. It's unethical. You just don't do that to Ron Greschner. End of debate. That should be reason enough to trash this idea.

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