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Free Agent Frenzy Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Lubomir Visnovsky

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Old
05-29-2006, 05:47 AM
  #26
King'sPawn
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire
No, but the entire team's is. That's why we need to start tearing down and re-building.

If we don't add some serious FA help, namely a premire blueliner or goaltender, this team is really no better than last year. We had a good run during the first half of the season, but I still didn't and still don't think that team was strong enough to make a serious run.
And your solution is to get rid of our best defenseman, who makes less than $2 million, and replace him with a premiere blueliner who will likely go for $6-8 million? Why not dump the salary of the lesser defensemen, who make more money, keep the same Visnovsky, and compliment his talents with more talent?

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Yes, I am well aware of Trottier's beliefs, but I don't neccessarily subscribe to them whole-heartedly. In order to have a successful franchise, you need someone to build around. Who do we have? Nobody, except for maybe Kopitar.
So do you advocate trading away Demitra and Norstrom, as well?

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I understand that in this new cap era a team can potentially change it's fate in one offseason with correct asset management, but we've got several bad contracts on the books that I think will prevent us from adding that difference making piece. That's why I was against the Demitra, and Conroy signings in the first place. They are both great players, but nothing you can really build your future around.

We need a foundation. And IMO until we get that, there really is no point in hanging on to quality players that will only make us marginally better. That's where we've been the last seven years. Good, but not good enough to make any noise or be able to add those all important pieces through the draft.
And I think you're being premature, suggesting a rebuild even before Lombardi has a chance to make an impact signing or trade. Who knows how we'll do in the following season? If we're going to trade away Visnovsky, it might as well be a deadline deal, when we're out of the playoffs, and acquire some good young talent then. Surely, we'd find a team to overpay for him, if we really needed to get rid of him.

As for building your future around, what about Gleason, Cammalleri, Frolov, and (even though I have my doubts on him) Brown? They're all under 24 years old. I know that's old by hf stanards but do you really think we don't have much to build around? Edmonton and Buffalo both have a solid core of very good young players, but no "superstar" centered around them. Carolina has Staal. How many young superstars do you want to build around?

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05-29-2006, 06:37 AM
  #27
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No. That was IF we don't sign one of those guys then we should look into getting rid of Vis. Like I said "I kind of agree with CD"

Yes. I've said this since the begining of the season. I never would have signed Demitra in the first place, and the contract we gave Matti is just ridiculous.

Again, that is contingent on our off-season signings/trades. If we don't get someone we can build around, then it's time. We should have been offloading assets before last years trade deadline. Instead, we had Taylor bringing in more salary and mediocrity with the Sopel/Parish trade.

Sure, we can build around them, but they are more complementary players. We need need someone who the franchise can be built upon-a top ten/top 15 player. For example: if the Sabres win the Cup this year, they will be the first team to win it without a top ten player in the league since....ever? I really can't even come up with one.

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Last edited by Legionnaire: 05-29-2006 at 04:14 PM.
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05-29-2006, 04:12 PM
  #28
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In addition to everything everyone's said to smack down the lunacy of the original poster, I'd add that Blake and Jovanovski are not legitimate 'rumors'. They are pure speculation. Personally I'd speculate it's more likely Deano will go after Mitchell and McKee. But nobody knows anything.

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07-08-2008, 08:31 PM
  #29
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Lubomir Visnovsky

Stoll + Greene for Lubomir Visnovsky.
Who would have thought.

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07-08-2008, 08:33 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qaasim View Post
Stoll + Greene for Lubomir Visnovsky.
Who would have thought.
Yeah I was wrong, but it's not my fault Dean Lombardi is an idiot.

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07-08-2008, 10:21 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qaasim View Post
Stoll + Greene for Lubomir Visnovsky.
Who would have thought.
Coooookies for you.


Vote for Lubo!

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Old
07-08-2008, 10:22 PM
  #32
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kim, you might be wrong again?

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07-08-2008, 11:37 PM
  #33
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If the Kings would have moved him back when I suggested it, the return would have been higher then the return we got. Oh well.

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07-09-2008, 12:18 AM
  #34
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No need for this.

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07-09-2008, 02:05 AM
  #35
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This thread two years old and since that time Lubo got a fat contract + had a poor year + Kings lost money + Kings went with youth + etc..

If two years ago,you talked about trading Sundin for picks + prospects you'd be lynched.

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07-09-2008, 02:14 AM
  #36
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The only reason I see for doing this deal is to free up cap space. Lubo is set for a huge pay raise this season (he will make 5.6mil toward Edmonton's cap and 7mil overall). They must feel that Doughty is ready and deserves a chance. Hickey isn't far away and if need be they can sign a plugger until such time as either are ready. But in all honesty, L.A. isn't a playoff team until Bernier is ready. Thats it. Until such time as he can provide the support that Anze and co need, the Kings aren't in the top 8. If I'm an L.A. fan, I'm excited about the potential this team has. They have a just as promising, if not more promising defense core as Chicago, and they have a real star in Kopitar. Not too far away. It may take a while but if you can handle the beating for a couple years, you will reap the rewards later.

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Old
07-09-2008, 02:14 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Yeah I was wrong, but it's not my fault Dean Lombardi is an idiot.
This is true.

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07-09-2008, 02:49 AM
  #38
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This would have been a really big "I told you so" if it were originally posted in May 2008, rather than May 2006. Lots of things change in 2 years.

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07-09-2008, 05:40 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Yeah I was wrong, but it's not my fault Dean Lombardi is an idiot.
You were wrong regardless of who Dean Lombardi is.

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Old
07-09-2008, 05:42 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
This would have been a really big "I told you so" if it were originally posted in May 2008, rather than May 2006. Lots of things change in 2 years.
This is true. Visnovsky's value seems to have dropped somewhat since 2006. Although I'm sure Oilers don't think so.

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Old
07-09-2008, 06:20 AM
  #41
Fishy McScales
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Originally Posted by P1x44r View Post
This is true. Visnovsky's value seems to have dropped somewhat since 2006. Although I'm sure Oilers don't think so.
Well, you wanna buy low...

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Old
07-09-2008, 07:21 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by P1x44r View Post
You were wrong regardless of who Dean Lombardi is.
If I had a dollar for every time I was wrong because someone over the course of my time here on earth did something stupid despite what I claim, I'd have a lot of other better things to do than defending myself on an internet message board.


Visnovsky's trade value wasn't low, Dean Lombardi is an idiot. Plain and simple. If you give Visnovsky to any other GM in this league he would have either (a) not traded him, which was the correct option or (b) made the trade worth it.

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07-09-2008, 10:51 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If I had a dollar for every time I was wrong because someone over the course of my time here on earth did something stupid despite what I claim, I'd have a lot of other better things to do than defending myself on an internet message board.


Visnovsky's trade value wasn't low, Dean Lombardi is an idiot. Plain and simple. If you give Visnovsky to any other GM in this league he would have either (a) not traded him, which was the correct option or (b) made the trade worth it.
Yeah, I think you're wrong again. Trading Visnovsky was Risk Management 101.

Lombardi did what needed to be done, and Lubo's trade value wasn't that high considering he had to be moved prior to July 1.

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07-09-2008, 10:54 AM
  #44
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Thread necromancy is uncool.

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07-09-2008, 10:55 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Yeah, I think you're wrong again. Trading Visnovsky was Risk Management 101.

Lombardi did what needed to be done, and Lubo's trade value wasn't that high considering he had to be moved prior to July 1.
And this line of reasoning is why the LA kings will continue to be a bag of suck. Trading away all of your top veteran players does not a competitive team make. It also stops your talented youth from developing properly.

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07-09-2008, 10:56 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Yeah, I think you're wrong again. Trading Visnovsky was Risk Management 101.

Lombardi did what needed to be done, and Lubo's trade value wasn't that high considering he had to be moved prior to July 1.
Then you don't trade him.


Look at the Kings. If Lombardi wanted to move Visnovsky at the trade deadline after a decent season, I don't think Visnovsky would hold him captive, and if he does, well that's Lombardi's fault. Stop giving people no-trade clauses. If that's the thinking, then it's the second time in 4 months that a no-trade clause hindered the Kings from making a move to acquire assets.


And it's not like the Kings didn't have moves to make to be able to make the playoffs this season without giving up Hickey and Doughty, and even that other 1st round pick.

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07-09-2008, 11:03 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
Thread necromancy is uncool.
it CAN be a kinda hot, but all in all i agree.

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Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
Trading away all of your top veteran players does not a competitive team make. It also stops your talented youth from developing properly.
partially agree with the former, wholeheartedly disagree with the latter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Then you don't trade him.


Look at the Kings. If Lombardi wanted to move Visnovsky at the trade deadline after a decent season, I don't think Visnovsky would hold him captive, and if he does, well that's Lombardi's fault. Stop giving people no-trade clauses. If that's the thinking, then it's the second time in 4 months that a no-trade clause hindered the Kings from making a move to acquire assets.


And it's not like the Kings didn't have moves to make to be able to make the playoffs this season without giving up Hickey and Doughty, and even that other 1st round pick.

2 Lubomir Visnovsky's were traded within a week.

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07-09-2008, 11:04 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Then you don't trade him.


Look at the Kings. If Lombardi wanted to move Visnovsky at the trade deadline after a decent season, I don't think Visnovsky would hold him captive, and if he does, well that's Lombardi's fault. Stop giving people no-trade clauses.
Lombardi admitted making a mistake here and corrected it before he had to make a deal satisfactory to the player.

Lubo had given Lombardi a list of six teams that he would have liked to played for if he was traded. Lombardi stated in an interview that there wasn't much interest in Lubo south of the border. Waiting until the deadline to move him would have only further restricted Visnovsky's value more.

Now if you want to blame him for something, blame him for the crack in his crystal ball that prevented him from seeing the need for a complete rebuild two years earlier and for not trading Visnovsky and Cammalleri back when they had more value.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
And this line of reasoning is why the LA kings will continue to be a bag of suck. Trading away all of your top veteran players does not a competitive team make. It also stops your talented youth from developing properly.
I happen to think that this team will be very competitive by the end of this season and heading into 09-10. The key to their success will be re-signing the RFAs to reasonable long term contracts, and by reasonable I don't necessarily mean hometown discounts. There is a reason the Kings are keeping cap space available. Kopitar and Johnson aren't going to come cheap.

I think Lombardi will wait to see if Stoll earns a long term deal. If he looks good the first few months of the season Lombardi will probably want to extend him. If Stoll insists on going the UFA route, well then he'll probably be out of here by the deadline.

Most Kings fans will tell you that Visnovsky and Cammalleri didn't bring much in the leadership department and that Blake is vastly overrated in this area. I think we could still use a vet on the blueline, but I am happy going into the season with the forwards that we have.


Last edited by KINGS17: 07-09-2008 at 11:10 AM.
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Old
07-09-2008, 11:07 AM
  #49
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I also don't understand the point of this trade from a Kings perspective.

I think it was a great trade for Edmonton... addressed some of their issues on defense, and they moved a couple of parts that they didn't need for it.

In LA, you move your team's best dman... the guy who is the veteran presence on the blueline, and such players are critical to how younger players will develop on the team around him.... they also lost Blake as well - while gaining in years, and certainly slowing down, was another great veteran presence to have around young players.

Instead their veteran leaders on defense now are Gauthier and Preissing?

I don't see how this improves the Kings organization a whole lot? Sure the kids have tons of talent and potential... guys like Johnson, Doughty and Hickey... but wouldn't all of these guys be much better off having a vet like Lubo around??

What makes this even more confusing for me is the kings payroll situation... they let Blake leave, likely aren't going to re-sign Nagy.... and then traded Lubo... the team now sits almost $12mill below the cap floor!!

So they will have to add some vets - or overpay O'Sullivan, Stoll and/or Richardson all RFAs right now, just to meet the cap floor!

wouldn't it make more sense for this team to just have held on to Lubo, kept that veteran experience, and the extra payroll space, that got you closer to that salary floor, than to make these types of moves?? the key player they get back here is Stoll - a guy the oilers weren't all that happy with, and a $2.2mill qualifier for him, on a team that already has Handzus, Kopitar, O'Sullivan and Armstrong down the middle... just added Richardson as well, and with Boyle not far away.

The trade, salary, talent, experience, and everything else considered, made a whole lot of sense to me from the Oilers POV... just doesn't make much sense to me from the Kings POV.

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Old
07-09-2008, 11:09 AM
  #50
Giggli G
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partially agree with the former, wholeheartedly disagree with the latter.
How can you though? Why do you think that Detriot is so successful at coming up with elite players from late draft picks? That organization gradually mingles young talent in with elite veterans, they learn from the best in the game, and they become better players for it. LA dumps all the rookies together on a squad and lets them flounder.

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