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Midnight strikes for CinderNoodles!

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11-04-2003, 08:53 PM
  #1
Bicycle Repairman
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Midnight strikes for CinderNoodles!

There ya go, folks. Can't wrap this tale up in pretty ribbons.

The bandwagon is back to being a pumpkin on TinkerToy wheels, and the glass slippers have turned into GRAF PRO 750 SRs. size 11.5 wides with expired heavy-duty Dr. Scholes Odor-Eater insoles.

"Noodles" ain't anything more than refried chopped Polenta.

With His Royal Largeness on the shelf for an undetermined time, Darryl Sutter is hamstrung by budget. Turek, out not long enough for insurance purposes, but long enough to cause damage. For a franchise that opts for Steve Montador over Mike Commodore over a quibbling $200,000, you can bet your ugly stepsister there's no way any competent goaler will be coming to The Ball. Blushing Debuntante Dany Sabourin is all there is. And the Flames don't have organizational spots for yet another goaltender in the system.

Sure you can move salary by trading a skater, but in the end, you only end up weakening the team over-all.

Sutter's going to dance wit' the dates he brung with him. Problem is, they ain't the Belles of the Ball.

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11-04-2003, 10:47 PM
  #2
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Do you mean to say that the Flames lost because of Jamie McLennan? Moreover, the two-goal landslide is indication that he is about to lead the team (no goals last night) down the drain?

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11-04-2003, 11:20 PM
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He let in two goals. He played very well.

Sutter put in Sabourin to wake up the team. Obviously didn't work.

Not Noodles' fault at all.

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11-05-2003, 03:55 AM
  #4
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He had something like 4 periods of shutout hockey before he let in those goals.... I think goaltending is the least of Calgary's worries .... how about a little offence so the other team has to think about their own zone a little????

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11-05-2003, 05:04 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
There ya go, folks. Can't wrap this tale up in pretty ribbons.

The bandwagon is back to being a pumpkin on TinkerToy wheels, and the glass slippers have turned into GRAF PRO 750 SRs. size 11.5 wides with expired heavy-duty Dr. Scholes Odor-Eater insoles.

"Noodles" ain't anything more than refried chopped Polenta.

With His Royal Largeness on the shelf for an undetermined time, Darryl Sutter is hamstrung by budget. Turek, out not long enough for insurance purposes, but long enough to cause damage. For a franchise that opts for Steve Montador over Mike Commodore over a quibbling $200,000, you can bet your ugly stepsister there's no way any competent goaler will be coming to The Ball. Blushing Debuntante Dany Sabourin is all there is. And the Flames don't have organizational spots for yet another goaltender in the system.

Sure you can move salary by trading a skater, but in the end, you only end up weakening the team over-all.

Sutter's going to dance wit' the dates he brung with him. Problem is, they ain't the Belles of the Ball.
Did you even watch the game? This post is plain moronic...

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11-05-2003, 07:42 AM
  #6
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30 days is all that's required for insurance purposes and it sounds like he'll be out a lot longer than that.

I for one don't think McLennan is a guy we can rely on to start for several months. I think Sutter agrees and his hook to put Sabourin in for the 3rd period is a bad sign for Jamie. Personally I would expect Sutter to make a move in the next two weeks to bring a goaltender, McLennan just isn't getting it done. I mean we can't blame the loss last night on McLennan but you need your goalie to stop breakaways like the 2nd one. McCarty didn't really pull a crazy move, McLennan just started swimming and left a huge gap for McCarty to exploit. Of course Iginla looks like a huge goat on that goal as well.

McLennan isn't the answer IMO. It's great he's put up some decent stats and for the most part has allowed us to win or at least be in a game but I haven't seen a single game this year that he stole and I've seen him give up some weak goals that we really can't afford to give up.

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11-05-2003, 09:23 AM
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Old
11-05-2003, 10:33 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
30 days is all that's required for insurance purposes and it sounds like he'll be out a lot longer than that.
It's actually 30 games.

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11-05-2003, 11:17 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
It's actually 30 games.
Link?

This is a quote I've found...

"Every NHL club protects its investment by purchasing special disability insurance on its marquee players. Since player contracts are guaranteed, the requirements vary. After X amount of games are missed by a player due to injury (anywhere from 10 to 20 depending on the policy), a club is reimbursed for salary lost."

from this article...

http://www.eagletribune.com/news/sto...223/SP_006.htm

This article suggests its days but doesn't give the specific number for hockey...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/2001/0307/1136588.html

Pretty sure I heard Peter Maher say last night that it's 30 days and that each club insures it's top 5 salaried players but I could be wrong.

Do you have any better sources that would confirm it's 30 games? I find that quite hard to believe, that's over 1/3 of a season. I think if it's games it must be a lower number than the one you have provided.

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11-05-2003, 11:20 AM
  #10
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Let's see. Over the last several seasons, Calgary has had a revolving door of Wregget, Roloson, Brathwaite, Fuhr, Vernon, Tabaracci, Moss, Trefilov, Turek as starting goaltenders at one time or another. This list may include one or two more, whose names escape me at the moment. (We won't mention Giguere.) The law of averages is in our favor. The time has come for a Flames goalie to have an above average season, in a Flames uniform.

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11-05-2003, 11:32 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Pretty sure I heard Peter Maher say last night that it's 30 days and that each club insures it's top 5 salaried players but I could be wrong.

Do you have any better sources that would confirm it's 30 games? I find that quite hard to believe, that's over 1/3 of a season. I think if it's games it must be a lower number than the one you have provided.
www.latimes.com

Go to the archives and search using keywords "jason+allison+insurance"

Article dated Oct. 18, 2003

Here's the synopsis:

[Jason Allison] will make $8 million this season, but the Kings are being reimbursed for 80% of his salary, pro-rated to the number of games he misses, because the insurance coverage rolled over into this season after being triggered when Allison missed his 30th game from the injury last season.

You have to purchase the rest of the article, but this was the policy Maher is referring to.

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11-05-2003, 01:00 PM
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Brutal post! I'm not even a Flames fan yet this one is easy to argue. he was well on his way to another solid performance. making acrobatic stops holding the fort for the Flames and giving them a remote chance. The change was made as a momentum shifter. "Large" has been brutal for the Flames in his few years and i think Mclennan has been more than acceptable as a backup. Brutal insights!

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11-05-2003, 01:49 PM
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Well since one of the articles posted says the game totals needed vary depending on the coverage I guess we don't really have a definitive answer in the case of Turek's insurance.

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11-05-2003, 01:58 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Well since one of the articles posted says the game totals needed vary depending on the coverage I guess we don't really have a definitive answer in the case of Turek's insurance.
True. I'll admit not knowing the specifics of Turek's insurance policy, but my point that the payouts are based on games missed, not calendar days, is correct.

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11-06-2003, 06:12 AM
  #15
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BR is correct, it is 30 games...
Herald Article

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11-06-2003, 06:50 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by FF_IN_LV
BR is correct, it is 30 games...
Darn right the Repairman's suspicions were correct! That's why you should listen to the Repairman.

Darryl Sutter won't be getting a new goaltender anytime soon. Not with the uncertainty of the Turek situation, coupled with budgetary restraints. Not without trading away an asset, thereby weakening the team at another position because nobody wants any of our other goaltenders.

When Turek returns, there'll be five goaltenders under contract and Sutter can't afford to add a sixth, nor is there an extra spot for that goaltender to play.

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11-06-2003, 08:13 AM
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Well sending McLennan down to the ECHL for for the last third of the season would only cost us an extra 220,000 or so and completely relieve the finding a spot argument that you made. I'm sure the Flames could make that type of number work somehow. Adding another goaltender is not as impossible or as unfeasible as you suggest.

You're bang on when you say it will require another asset but that could be something like a prospect or pick, doesn't necessarily have to be a roster player, therefore a deal for a goaltender doesn't necessarily have to weaken our team.

I think you make some assumptions that are not valid. You may think he won't acqurie one soon but don't try and tell us it's out of the realm of possibility.

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11-06-2003, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Well sending McLennan down to the ECHL for for the last third of the season would only cost us an extra 220,000 or so and completely relieve the finding a spot argument that you made. I'm sure the Flames could make that type of number work somehow. Adding another goaltender is not as impossible or as unfeasible as you suggest.

You're bang on when you say it will require another asset but that could be something like a prospect or pick, doesn't necessarily have to be a roster player, therefore a deal for a goaltender doesn't necessarily have to weaken our team.

I think you make some assumptions that are not valid. You may think he won't acqurie one soon but don't try and tell us it's out of the realm of possibility.
Wow. Didn't you hammer me on CP for saying that it was likely that McLennan get sent to the ECHL if another goaltender were snapped up? What changed that now its alright to consider the move?

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11-06-2003, 11:53 AM
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I don't know. Find me the exact post and I can probably explain my reasoning. I don't recall the situation you are referring to.

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11-06-2003, 12:33 PM
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I'll see if I can find it. It might have been Tranny. It was during one of the McLennan threads where I was sticking to my guns that he is a guy the team needs to be improving on, and fast. I said that the Flames were likely having problems making a deal because Sutter would be trying to include McLennan rather than eat his salary while plays in the ECHL. My reasoning was (prior to the Turek injury) that the Flames would not carry "Noodles" on the NHL roster and would rather have Sabourin in the AHL than shuffle the goalies around (figuring the Flames would have no opportunity to place him with another team). I got burned at the stake for suggesting reasoning that McLennan would be ECHL bound, because of his salary. If it doesn't ring a bell, it was likely Tranny then. No sweat. I was just curious if there was a turnaround, and if so why?

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11-06-2003, 12:49 PM
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Certainly could have been me. At the beginning of the season I would have certainly disagreed with the notion that Sabourin would win the backup role and McLennan would be demoted to the ECHL. Due to experience, due to money, etc. I don't see Sabourin holding down an NHL spot at any time this season at McLennan's expense and I'll stand by that stance.

But if we acquire another goaltender and then Turek comes back then I think Sabourin in the AHL and McLennan somewhere in the ECHL would be logical move.

Does that clarify?

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11-06-2003, 03:11 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Well sending McLennan down to the ECHL for for the last third of the season would only cost us an extra 220,000 or so and completely relieve the finding a spot argument that you made. I'm sure the Flames could make that type of number work somehow. Adding another goaltender is not as impossible or as unfeasible as you suggest.
It's not quite that simple.

You're forgetting that Noodles (like Arturs Irbe) has to personally agree to go to the ECHL, something he has the contractual right to decline. Let's not forget he owns a good chunk of the Texas Wildcatters, so a potential conflict of interest exists. The Flames would need to get approval from the ECHL League Office itself. By no means a rubber-stamp decision. Even if he played for the Wildcatters, he's stealing Davis Parley's icetime.

The Flames might be able to loan him out to another AHL team, I suppose, or just tell him to just bugger off (like they did with Levente Szuper), but they're still on the hook for your $220,000 figure. But like I mentioned earlier, Darryl Sutter isn't the type to throw even this (relatively) paltry sum out the window just for kicks.

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11-06-2003, 08:37 PM
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I just think you people are massively deluded if you think Sutter can resolve the goaltending situation at the snap of a finger. Say what you want about Roman Turek, but at least he provides adequate NHL-level goaltending. Nothing spectacular, mind you, but journeyman level all the same. Something that can't be said about his replacements.

Well, guess what? He's out. Not for the season perhaps, but for an indeterminate time that may or may not overlap the Games-Played Clause of the insurance contract. Sutter may not be getting his fingers on the loot courtesty Santa Insurance Clause till well after the Boxing Day Sales.

The over-riding dilemma Sutter faces is one of budget. I'll capitalize that for emphasis. BUDGET!

BUDGET! means no Hurme, no Biron, no Kiprusoff. No Joseph or any other cockamanie theories bandied about. Said players whom earn more than players already in the stable.

Sutter is going to go with roster goalies because he has no choice. Not unless perhaps a Dave Lowry-priced goaltender lands in his lap. HA! Fat chance! BUDGET!

If perchance in a few weeks time Turek is determined to be officially out for the season, expect a stop-gap measure the order of a Trevor Kidd (should Tellqvist work out for the Leafs) but no more. BUDGET!

The Flames are Big Time hooped here. Kudos are in order if Sutter can squirm his way out of this one, but the situation doesn't look at all promising.

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11-16-2003, 11:41 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
It's not quite that simple.

You're forgetting that Noodles (like Arturs Irbe) has to personally agree to go to the ECHL, something he has the contractual right to decline.
I've never heard that rule. The Flames should be able to assign him to the ECHL and if he doesn't want to go there he would have to forfeit his pay and be suspended by the team.

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11-16-2003, 11:43 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Darn right the Repairman's suspicions were correct! That's why you should listen to the Repairman.

Darryl Sutter won't be getting a new goaltender anytime soon. Not with the uncertainty of the Turek situation, coupled with budgetary restraints. Not without trading away an asset, thereby weakening the team at another position because nobody wants any of our other goaltenders.
Looks like they weren't so correct. And you were also wrong about needing to trade an asset on the current roster to get a goaltender.

I guess that's why we shouldn't listen to the Repairman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
I just think you people are massively deluded if you think Sutter can resolve the goaltending situation at the snap of a finger. Say what you want about Roman Turek, but at least he provides adequate NHL-level goaltending. Nothing spectacular, mind you, but journeyman level all the same. Something that can't be said about his replacements.

Well, guess what? He's out. Not for the season perhaps, but for an indeterminate time that may or may not overlap the Games-Played Clause of the insurance contract. Sutter may not be getting his fingers on the loot courtesty Santa Insurance Clause till well after the Boxing Day Sales.

The over-riding dilemma Sutter faces is one of budget. I'll capitalize that for emphasis. BUDGET!

BUDGET! means no Hurme, no Biron, no Kiprusoff. No Joseph or any other cockamanie theories bandied about. Said players whom earn more than players already in the stable.

Sutter is going to go with roster goalies because he has no choice. Not unless perhaps a Dave Lowry-priced goaltender lands in his lap. HA! Fat chance! BUDGET!

If perchance in a few weeks time Turek is determined to be officially out for the season, expect a stop-gap measure the order of a Trevor Kidd (should Tellqvist work out for the Leafs) but no more. BUDGET!

The Flames are Big Time hooped here. Kudos are in order if Sutter can squirm his way out of this one, but the situation doesn't look at all promising.
No Kiprusoff? Good call man, good call.

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