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Cross & Torres...who knew?

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Old
11-05-2003, 08:04 PM
  #26
Marconius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
As fro Cross, teams know what they are getting. He is a veteran and I don't think anybody thought it was a bad signing after the quality of play he gave the Oilers last year. He is a solid stay at home #4-5 d-man that has the ability to play in the defensive zone. Neither are surprising to me.
Thats my point though, apparently no one knew what we were getting it. A guy who is not half as bad defensivly as people think AND a guy whos going at a 0.5 pt/game clip (granted, the season is young)
I seem to remember that the resounding opinion on these boards was that the Cross signing was a bad move, if only at that price. I'd be curious to see what 'real,' 'legitimate' offensive defenders are scoring at right now. I know it wouldn't mean much, but it be interesting to compare

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11-05-2003, 10:12 PM
  #27
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I think you guys are selling Torres a little bit short by saying "he gets into the open spots..."

He makes a couple of nice moves every game that get him into the open ice with the puck as well, nothing flashy but with his strength he only has to get 1/2 a step on a guy to get free.

I agree that he should be a solid 20 goal guy, but he has the power forward role down to a fine art as well. He doesn't go off like a loose cannon out there, hopefully when he needs to stick up for his teammates he'll be smart about it. Time will tell.

He and Chimmer seem like the kind of players who will be hard to contain in a playoff environment. Speed, strength, and smart/simple plays.

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Old
11-06-2003, 02:16 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
I know the Isles have a habit of giving up their quality prospects , but it just seemed like they threw Torres into the Niinimaa trade as a spare part. I didn't get a chance to hear anything about Torres before he came over here, but I can't imagine that he was playing so badly that the Isles just shrugged their shoulders and tossed him into the deal.
People have joked that its becoming the Torres-Niinimaa trade, but it looks more and more like that may be the case. If Torres continues his play a Torres for Janne deal, straightup, would be looking good, never mind that we got the potential of Isbister included
nope it was always a Torres-Niinimaa deal Lowe never denied that, ok fair enough he never promoted that idea, i mean who would at that time. Since Isbister was a know player and ranked highly by many internet jocks that deal was a bit more stomachble but it was always for Torres with Isbister as the throw in. the second that was included was to balance it out

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11-06-2003, 02:23 AM
  #29
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dawgbone dont argue with igor the boy has so many stats and mathematical statistics that he'd beat you before you begin to even argue.

From the limited games I've watched I'd have to agree in theory with what igor is saying, if you're a team like Ottawa it would make more sense to shift ie Hossa to the point while you send in someone like Chara to do some dirty work. in regards to the Devils PP which i watched last night against the Sharks their tactical approach is different, one of the approaches are to play an umbrella with two forwards constantly screening the goalie, eventually it will be given to someone on the point, in this case normally Rafalski or Niedermayer (who btw are always paired with very defensive defencemen ie Stevens so in a way they are like a fwd which can be said about Blake of the Avs) who will shoot the puck in an "alley" which is created by the two Devils players pulling out from the screen and waiting for rebounds, the screen will exist from the two defencemen who were tracking those two forwards.

Quite effective as was the whole Zubov thing with Dallas beating us in the playoffs, how stupid you must be when they utilise the same tactic of cross shooting the puck from one point over and over again. argh!!

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11-06-2003, 07:02 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
nope it was always a Torres-Niinimaa deal Lowe never denied that, ok fair enough he never promoted that idea, i mean who would at that time. Since Isbister was a know player and ranked highly by many internet jocks that deal was a bit more stomachble but it was always for Torres with Isbister as the throw in. the second that was included was to balance it out
Interesting.....anyone else feel this way when the trade went down? Or was I the only one who thought Torres was a throw-in. Maybe I haven't been doing my prospect homework.
What do you think Torres ceiling is, right now people are saying a 20-20 guy. I guess that seems about right, for this season at least. what do you think his career might top out at?

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Old
11-06-2003, 07:18 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
Interesting.....anyone else feel this way when the trade went down? Or was I the only one who thought Torres was a throw-in. Maybe I haven't been doing my prospect homework.
What do you think Torres ceiling is, right now people are saying a 20-20 guy. I guess that seems about right, for this season at least. what do you think his career might top out at?
to be honest i just accepted what speeds said about Torres because i know how accurate speeds is in his assesment and for right now i cant remember what the hell speeds said i think he said high energy 3rd line player at his peak but the ones that score you the goals that you always need. About 20/20 imo should be no problem for him down the road he should be able to consistently hit that to became the league's premier third liner.

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11-06-2003, 08:34 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
Interesting.....anyone else feel this way when the trade went down? Or was I the only one who thought Torres was a throw-in. Maybe I haven't been doing my prospect homework.
What do you think Torres ceiling is, right now people are saying a 20-20 guy. I guess that seems about right, for this season at least. what do you think his career might top out at?
As I recall, Torres was the key piece of the puzzle, and the one that the Islanders were most reluctant to give up. Izzy was a guy the Oilers thought could do well in their system, but his trade value wasn't all that high because of his inconsistent play over the last few years (which we're kinda seeing here now, too, just as Islanders fans warned us).

Torres so far looks to be worth the one-way deal Lowe gave him in the summer, while Pisani is just starting to come around. And Chimera seems to have regressed!

The Oilers staff always presented Torres as having top-2-line upside, and we're certainly seeing that already. I didn't expect that to happen so soon - I expected him to play on the 4th line for most of the year, maybe not even every game. If he can stay on the 2nd line, though, then 20/20 is reachable. Long-term? Who knows...I'm really bad at that sort of thing.

Bart

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11-06-2003, 08:48 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barto
As I recall, Torres was the key piece of the puzzle, and the one that the Islanders were most reluctant to give up. Izzy was a guy the Oilers thought could do well in their system, but his trade value wasn't all that high because of his inconsistent play over the last few years (which we're kinda seeing here now, too, just as Islanders fans warned us).

Torres so far looks to be worth the one-way deal Lowe gave him in the summer, while Pisani is just starting to come around. And Chimera seems to have regressed!

The Oilers staff always presented Torres as having top-2-line upside, and we're certainly seeing that already. I didn't expect that to happen so soon - I expected him to play on the 4th line for most of the year, maybe not even every game. If he can stay on the 2nd line, though, then 20/20 is reachable. Long-term? Who knows...I'm really bad at that sort of thing.

Bart
Does anyone think his lack of size is going to bea problem for him. I know he's pretty solid, but he's also kinda short...

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11-06-2003, 10:07 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
Does anyone think his lack of size is going to bea problem for him. I know he's pretty solid, but he's also kinda short...
Hockeydb.com lists him as 6', 218 lbs.
Edmontonoilers.com lists him as 6', 210 lbs.
Nhlpa.com lists him as 6', 207 lbs.

I wouldn't really call that a lack of size...and by no means does he play small. He looks as strong as a bull.

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11-06-2003, 10:12 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
Does anyone think his lack of size is going to bea problem for him. I know he's pretty solid, but he's also kinda short...
If your built like a train who cares if your an inch or two shorter than everyone else.

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11-06-2003, 10:23 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
If your built like a train who cares if your an inch or two shorter than everyone else.
True enough, I guess lack of size won't be holding him back...I'm still waiting for hilight reel hit, though, something to challenge the MAB hit on Morrow

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11-06-2003, 10:36 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Marconius
True enough, I guess lack of size won't be holding him back...I'm still waiting for hilight reel hit, though, something to challenge the MAB hit on Morrow
From what I've seen of him, he's more of an abrasive, consistent hitter in the corners that gets on your nerves vs. a guy that looks for the Open Ice Concussion Special a la Mike Peca during his Canuck days.

Like I read from somewhere, listening on the radio you always know when Torres is on the ice without hearing his name because suddenly the boards rattle.

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11-06-2003, 12:21 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Digger12
From what I've seen of him, he's more of an abrasive, consistent hitter in the corners that gets on your nerves vs. a guy that looks for the Open Ice Concussion Special a la Mike Peca during his Canuck days.

Like I read from somewhere, listening on the radio you always know when Torres is on the ice without hearing his name because suddenly the boards rattle.
Do you think Torres is living up to his physical-play billing. Thats all I really heard about him after the trade, was that he was going to be a great physical precense on the team. Is it more the disturber-type phsycial presence (ala Barnaby, Tikkanen, Tucker) or the hit-you-like-a-truck physical presence?

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11-06-2003, 01:43 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
Do you think Torres is living up to his physical-play billing. Thats all I really heard about him after the trade, was that he was going to be a great physical precense on the team. Is it more the disturber-type phsycial presence (ala Barnaby, Tikkanen, Tucker) or the hit-you-like-a-truck physical presence?
I think the projection is a Brendan Morrow type, but maybe a little more physical. The Oilers were rumored to be after Morrow when Poti was being shopped, and now they have a younger cheaper, and IMO better version. Kudos to the staff for getting what they want.

As far as Cross, once you get used of watching his lack of foot speed, he is our smartest D-man. That said it does puzzle me when he's on the powerplay. Between Salo's poor buck handling, and Cross being the guy to retreive a cleared puck, we must lose about 20-30 seconds just on that alone.

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11-06-2003, 01:51 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Easilee 27

As far as Cross, once you get used of watching his lack of foot speed, he is our smartest D-man. That said it does puzzle me when he's on the powerplay. Between Salo's poor buck handling, and Cross being the guy to retreive a cleared puck, we must lose about 20-30 seconds just on that alone.
No one seems to be a huge fan of Cross on the pp. I have to say, though, no one gets his shots on net with more accuracy right now (except for maybe MAB, whos been doing a pretty good job, thus far). Cross won't just try to blow it through a defender, have his shot blocked, and turn the puck over. He usually manages to get a decent shot on net and provides some opportunities that way.

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11-06-2003, 02:19 PM
  #41
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What igor is saying, and I agree with him, is that Cross might do an ok job on the point but imagine if the guy back there was Hemsky and we had another offensive guys like say Torres? in front of the net hounding the goalie and looking for the rebounds that will only increase the opportunities and the effectiveness of the PP.

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11-06-2003, 02:30 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
Do you think Torres is living up to his physical-play billing. Thats all I really heard about him after the trade, was that he was going to be a great physical precense on the team. Is it more the disturber-type phsycial presence (ala Barnaby, Tikkanen, Tucker) or the hit-you-like-a-truck physical presence?
When you look at his career PIMs from junior to now, they don't really jump out at me at the type of minutes the disturber types usually get...yet I haven't yet seen him really lay anyone out either. personally I think he's a mix between the two types, he does his disturbing in that he doesn't get out of your face and drives you nuts all game.

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11-06-2003, 02:45 PM
  #43
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What worries me about Torres is he misses often.

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11-06-2003, 02:52 PM
  #44
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The ONLY thing so far that worrys me about Torres is he sometimes misses the target.

He was actually on the Oiler bench one time before the Niinimaa trade.

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11-06-2003, 04:04 PM
  #45
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Smith : Welcome to Edmonton, here have a early look at where we use our spit bucket

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