HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Allen could be suspended.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-05-2003, 09:56 AM
  #51
guinness
those were the days
 
guinness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Clovis, California
Country: United States
Posts: 12,201
vCash: 500
I don't think Allen should be suspended, it was most likely not intentional and a freak accident. As for Zetterberg playing a couple more shifts, breaking your fibula isn't something you would realize at first, I broke mine in my right leg and didn't realize it until I got an x-ray, you can walk after breaking it, but it hurts quite a bit, I thought it was just a bad bruise.

guinness is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 10:06 AM
  #52
incawg
Registered User
 
incawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
I don't think Allen should be suspended, it was most likely not intentional and a freak accident. As for Zetterberg playing a couple more shifts, breaking your fibula isn't something you would realize at first, I broke mine in my right leg and didn't realize it until I got an x-ray, you can walk after breaking it, but it hurts quite a bit, I thought it was just a bad bruise.
Yeh, that's true. To be honest it was just such a weak slash that it astonished me that a broken bone could result from it. But every once in a while crazy things like that do happen.

Really an unfortunate incident all around. Nobody likes to see players get injured and ultimately I think we can all agree that it would benefit the game if the stickwork stopped. The question is whether suspending a player for such a freak incident would help in that regard. Personally I think calling penalties is a much better preventative measure, but something tells me the NHL will go for the quick-fix "appease the wronged" solution while ignoring the underlying issue.

incawg is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 10:06 AM
  #53
DanStewartFC
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sarnia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,342
vCash: 500
Who cares! I don't care if Allen gets suspended. I just can't wait until Detroit and Vancouver play each other again. I think there may(not a pun on words) be some good scraps, can't wait to see it Feb. 24.

DanStewartFC is online now  
Old
11-05-2003, 10:15 AM
  #54
A Good Flying Bird*
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan
Are you proud of team Canada's win in 1972 over team USSR?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I think BCF has a point. Most Candians are extremely proud of that series, its part of what defines our culture (For better or worse) and that was series filled with weapons/sketchy hits & tactics/intent to injure.
Most Canadians simply write this off as good, old-school, Canadian hockey, the way it was meant ot be played and are proud our boys were such warriors.
Its an interesting thing to ponder....
Right. ANd about, oh, 4 percent of the people in here saw that series.

A Good Flying Bird* is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 10:17 AM
  #55
A Good Flying Bird*
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup4Wings
Who cares! I don't care if Allen gets suspended. I just can't wait until Detroit and Vancouver play each other again. I think there may(not a pun on words) be some good scraps, can't wait to see it Feb. 24.

I doubt it. Zetterberg got hurt when the game was out of reach in the third. If the WIngs don't take action in that kind of game, the likely won't do it in February/.

A Good Flying Bird* is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 10:41 AM
  #56
s7ark
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,621
vCash: 500
Come on people, whether it was a light slash or a freak injury doesn't make a difference. The act of slashing is against the rules. If I hit someone in the arm and they have some weird condition, or if the hit is just right and breaks their arm, it doesn't matter that 99.9% of the time that wouldn' have happened. You must pay for things that happen not things that normally happen. the FACTS are: Allen Slashed Zetterberg (note rule is NO slashing, not light slashes are ok). Zetterbergs leg was broken. To me that is a suspension. No question about it.

If this was Chelios breaking Nasland's leg you wouldn't have all these canuck fans defending it.

And you can scream unlucky Allen and it happens 20 times a game til you're blue in the face, it doesn't change the fact that he broke the rules and seriously injured another player. To me that means suspension. Maybe next time he won't be so "unlucky" by not slashing the next star.

s7ark is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 11:01 AM
  #57
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
From the NHL rulebook:
Rule 85 Slashing



Slashing is the act of swinging a player's stick at an opponent, whether contact is made or not.

(NOTE) Non aggressive stick contact to the pant or front of the shin pads, should not be penalized as slashing.

(a) A minor or major and a game misconduct penalty, at the discretion of the Referee, shall be imposed on any player who impedes the progress of an opponent by "slashing" with his stick.

(b) A major and a game misconduct penalty shall be imposed on any player who injure an opponent by slashing.

(c) Any player who swings his stick at another player in the course of an altercation shall be subject to a fine of not less than two hundred dollars ($200), with or without suspension, to be imposed by the Commissioner. (See Rule 43 - Attempt to Injure or Rule 52 - Deliberate Injury of Opponents.)

http://nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule85.html






Almost every slashing incident is aggressive. That non-aggressive clause is likely in there to prevent overzealous refs from nailing people for accidental contact.

SmokeyClause is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 11:45 AM
  #58
Burke's Evil Spirit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 15,376
vCash: 500
Well, it's three hours until puck drop in Vancouver vs. Nashville and nothing has been announced...I'm guessing Allen will not be facing suspension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
Almost every slashing incident is aggressive. That non-aggressive clause is likely in there to prevent overzealous refs from nailing people for accidental contact.
...or it's there to do exactly what the rule says: not penalize players just for making contact with the stick. You're just twisting the interpretation to better suit your argument.

Burke's Evil Spirit is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 11:58 AM
  #59
CCF
This is the year....
 
CCF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Across Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolution
Not really. The slash on Kharlamov was just classless.

Hockey is the only sport where you have a weapon in your hands and where you are not punished when you use it. I think it's stupid.
Hope you've never seen Lacrosse then. You might just break out into tears.

CCF is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 12:01 PM
  #60
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,526
vCash: 500
What happens if a 4th liner goes down in the play-off's after being cross checked in the back because they were standing in front of the crease by Adam Foote or Chris Pronger. Are they going to get suspended?

Tieing the consequences (injury), without any regard to intent is just ludicrous IMO.

Beukeboom Fan is online now  
Old
11-05-2003, 12:11 PM
  #61
ZombieMatt
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakes
I watched the Leaf game last night, and at one point Sundin stripped the puck of Tarnstrom and was going in on a breakaway. Tarnstrom, racing to catch up with Sundin, gave this vicious two handed slash, just below one of Sundin's gloves. He didn't hurt Sundin or even break his stick.

1. Slashes can be deceiving
2. If he had have got Sundin on the wrist, hand or arm (which he was very close to doing), Sundin's would have had a broken bone of some sort.

Now, no penalty was called on this play, but was that because the ref wanted to "let the players decide the outcome of the game" or because Sundin wasn't hurt? Probably the latter and if this is the case the NHL already does punish people based on the outcome of an accident or injury. (also see, the penalty for cutting someone with a high stick as opposed to not). Why not try to protect the leagues talent a little better?
I don't really see what you said that counters my points, sorry.

In fact, the way I understand what you said, you furthered what I was saying.

The two hander by Tarnstrom SHOULD have been a penalty. There was obvious intent there. There was no intent to injure by Allen, because if there were, he would have swung much harder than the love tap he gave Zetterberg.

There is a different penalty for drawing blood witha high stick, but that's a call made by referees ON the ice, and not by the league a few days later. AND, on top of that, calls do get missed. However, that was not a missed call, teh ref must have saw it and determined it wasn't a penalty.

I don't know. If they're going to suspend Allen because Zetterberg's leg happened to break on a very weak slash compared to what frequently happens, then they better start suspending guys like Chelios, Foote, et al for their actions.

There were 59 other slashes that occurred during that game, most of which were probably much harder than Allen's. Allen should not be penalized for a freak accident.

ZombieMatt is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 12:15 PM
  #62
leaflover
New hope
 
leaflover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: beautiful B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,910
vCash: 4850
The nhl will look at the tape and take whatever action neccesary.I would guess 3-4 games as it wasn't a big wind up lumberjack type chop.

Should he be suspended for breaking Zetterbergs leg accidently with the slash? Absolutely.Should it be a severe 8+ games suspension?Definately not.
Anytime you slash a player there is intent,not neccesarily to injure or even cause pain,many times its simply to piss the guy off and get him off his game or any other variety of reasons.But you have to expect tp be held accountable when these rare serious injuries occur regardless of your intent when you slashed the opposing player.Its quite simple really.

The same posters that are claiming it was a total accident and there should be no suspension need to watch the replay.Allen slashed Zetterberg and the result is a broken leg.Thats cut and dry folks.

The people that are calling for Allens head need to look at the replay as well and compare it to slashes or other stick infractions that have resulted in the 8+ game suspensions they would like to see.You'll see quite a discrepancy between what Allen did and the vast majority of those plays.

Simply put the NHL cannot afford to let Allen slide if for no other reason than it sets a terrible precedent.If breaking a leg isn't cause for some type of suspension then what is?.Thats the view the NHL must take,otherwise their credibility regarding the supposed crackdown on stick infractions is gone,gone,gone.

leaflover is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 12:26 PM
  #63
Blane Youngblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kira
Thank you.

I saw the slash...it may have looked innocent enough to you all, but there was absolutely no call for it.
There is no call for any slash really. The question is, do you think every player that makes a slash like that should be suspended?

Blane Youngblood is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 12:29 PM
  #64
MoS*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northfield, Minnesot
Posts: 5,094
vCash: 500
I don't really care. Hatcher and Zetterberg are going to down for months. as a canucks fan i am not really concerned because of the depth of our defense. with allen down we will simply replace him with slegr for 2 games

MoS* is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 12:34 PM
  #65
Wings9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 86
vCash: 500
The point is not this slash. The point is that you can get a player out for many months and nothing happens.
If I have to choose between 4 games to Allen or one of the Wings go after Nalsund and et him out, I say go for an injury on Naslund. And that is not direction I want this league to head to.
It is not about the Wings and the Canucks.
I thought the same when Domi got one NJD player out in the playoffs 2-3 years ago. If you do not punish players for cheap shots, they will use them as much as possible.
For example, if the Predators are badly losing or winning vs the Canucks tonight, why would not they go after one of the Canucks best players? If they get him out for several months, they just increase they chances of makig the playoffs, because the Canucks lose one very good player are become a weaker team.
The teams have not been using this, but you can bet they will start when they realize that there is very little, next to nothing to lose, and a lot to gain.

Wings9 is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 12:38 PM
  #66
Blane Youngblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
Right. ANd about, oh, 4 percent of the people in here saw that series.

Wow, you need to be alive during the series to see it? Have you heard of this new thing called television? Because of its anniversary, the series came out on dvd and they showed it on public television. I'm guessing quite a few people saw atleast parts of the series or a show like legends of hockey where they talked about the series and show clips from it. Unless you are saying that less then 4% have seen either of these. Also, most Canadian hockey fans are proud of that series, the whole damn team is in the HOF.

Blane Youngblood is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 12:38 PM
  #67
MoS*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northfield, Minnesot
Posts: 5,094
vCash: 500
Btw guys. how long is hatcher injured for? how long is zetterberg injured for? the articles didn't say

MoS* is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 12:52 PM
  #68
Boomhower
Registered User
 
Boomhower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoS
Btw guys. how long is hatcher injured for? how long is zetterberg injured for? the articles didn't say
I believe Zetts is 4-6 weeks and Hatcher is estimated around mid March.

Boomhower is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 12:56 PM
  #69
Burke's Evil Spirit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 15,376
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Well, it's three hours until puck drop in Vancouver vs. Nashville and nothing has been announced...I'm guessing Allen will not be facing suspension.
I guess I spoke too soon.

Burke's Evil Spirit is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 02:00 PM
  #70
Thalia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Scotland
Posts: 4,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck Highlander
"Mr. Chelios please meet Mr. Allen". My god Chelios must be eating his words from the summer "i can't wait for Mr. bertuzzi to meet Mr. hatcher".
That's exactly what I said: forget about meeting Bertuzzi... meet Mr. Allen.

Thalia is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 04:32 PM
  #71
Habsolution
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: En tounoi avec Theo? Bonn chan!
Posts: 2,408
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCF
Hope you've never seen Lacrosse then. You might just break out into tears.
Totaly forgot about that sport. I agree it's a lot worse. Doesn't mean it's ok though ...

Habsolution is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 04:49 PM
  #72
cc
Registered User
 
cc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,078
vCash: 500
is it now established by the NHL that it's not the crime... but the outcome that determines how a player should be punished?

cc is offline  
Old
11-05-2003, 05:33 PM
  #73
A Good Flying Bird*
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Wow, you need to be alive during the series to see it? Have you heard of this new thing called television? Because of its anniversary, the series came out on dvd and they showed it on public television. I'm guessing quite a few people saw atleast parts of the series or a show like legends of hockey where they talked about the series and show clips from it. Unless you are saying that less then 4% have seen either of these. Also, most Canadian hockey fans are proud of that series, the whole damn team is in the HOF.
Clips?
Please.

Canadians, and I am one, can be so hypocritical.
It's okay for Team Canada to defend the country's past-time with slashes and cross checks.
But, oh, let Bobby Clobber and the Flyers goon the Russians out of the building, and man, the Americans are disgusting.

I wasn't around to actually watch it, so no, I'm not proud of it, really.
I was immensely proud of Salt Lake.
And how about the Rendez Vous in Quebec City.
Or the famous New Years Eve tie between the Canadiens and the Red Army. Or several World Cups and Canada Cups.

I've seen those. I was touched by the moment. I sensed where those games belonged in hockey history and Canada's history
And let me tell you, the Canadians in those games, for the most part, did not go around swing sticks.

A Good Flying Bird* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:44 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.