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Buffalo/Colorado/Washington proposal...

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Old
10-31-2003, 09:35 AM
  #1
TehDoak
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Buffalo/Colorado/Washington proposal...

Just a thought....Buffalo is under pressure to make the playoffs....Washington wants to Dump salary....Colorado needs a goalie...

To Buffalo: Gonchar, Grier
To Washinton: Biron, Afinogenov, Skoula, Colorado's 2nd, Buffalos 2nd
To Colorado: Kolzig.

Zhitnik-Gonchar would be a formidable top pair. Colorado gets their top goalie, and Washington gets a starting goalie and a possible #1 D-man.

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10-31-2003, 09:46 AM
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If Skoula (a #5/#6) and a low 2nd is gonna land a top 10 netminder, I'd be surprised what a package consisting of real talent and value could land. Jesus?

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10-31-2003, 10:15 AM
  #3
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you are forgetting that Kolzig would be a salary dump and not a trade talent for talent. The Caps don't make this deal unless they want to shed $$$. So, with that in mind it's not unfeasible that a #5 dman (your words) and a low second could land that in return.

As for Jesus, I doubt Mrs. Modano would want to trade their son. So he'd be untouchable.

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10-31-2003, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
If Skoula (a #5/#6) and a low 2nd is gonna land a top 10 netminder, I'd be surprised what a package consisting of real talent and value could land. Jesus?
Still, it looks nice from just about every teams perspective.

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10-31-2003, 10:25 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avfan#21
you are forgetting that Kolzig would be a salary dump and not a trade talent for talent. The Caps don't make this deal unless they want to shed $$$. So, with that in mind it's not unfeasible that a #5 dman (your words) and a low second could land that in return.

As for Jesus, I doubt Mrs. Modano would want to trade their son. So he'd be untouchable.
Even if he's a salary dump, he could land a whole lot more then that.

There are still a few teams with netminding issue's, and most of them usually try to work things out from inside the organisation or aquire a 2nd string goalie since the price for the "elite" ones is usally quite high. However, if Kolzig is such a salary dump like you claim him to be, I could see the Bruins, Hurricanes, Flames, Isles, Blues, (Nucks) and more come up with an offer that should easily match, if not, be more valueble then the Skoula, 2nd offer. They could find the room to insert his salary into their payrolls rather easily, that is, if they have to make room in the first place.

You would not, can not and should not land a goalie of his calibre for so little. Or hell, I'd trade Robidas and the Stars 2nd for him just so I can offer him to the highest bidder afterwards, and trust me, he could fetch some, let alone if you eat a small portion of his reasonable contract.

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10-31-2003, 10:29 AM
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I'm wondering if the poster meant the 2nd that the Avs acquired from Florida or Colorodo's 2nd round pick. It would really change the value that the Avs are offering if that is the case.

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10-31-2003, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Just a thought....Buffalo is under pressure to make the playoffs....Washington wants to Dump salary....Colorado needs a goalie...

To Buffalo: Gonchar, Grier
To Washinton: Biron, Afinogenov, Skoula, Colorado's 2nd, Buffalos 2nd
To Colorado: Kolzig.

Zhitnik-Gonchar would be a formidable top pair. Colorado gets their top goalie, and Washington gets a starting goalie and a possible #1 D-man.

I think Buffalo makes out a little too nicely here. Gonchar and Grier is a lot of return to expect for Biron and Afinogenov and a pick.

Washington really takes it on the cuff there, downgrading in goal, and on defense, not adding much to their attack,and basically only getting a few picks for their trouble.

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Old
10-31-2003, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Still, it looks nice from just about every teams perspective.
Gotta disagree with you there, a rarity to be sure, Enoch.

1. Kolzig is a bit streaky at times, and right now he's playing horribly. Yes, he doesn't have much help, but he's been nowhere near the netminder he was last season. I like the goalie we have now. He's played spectacularly so far...*knock on wood* Everyone says Colorado needs a goalie. No...what we need is for our team to play with more intensity and not fall asleep between periods. And as much as I HATE Skoula and want him gone, I'd rather get a forward prospect for him.

2. Washington doesn't need a starter. They have the NHL's best goaltending prospect in Maxime Ouellet. He'll be called up after Kolzig is traded. Charpentier will provide capably as a backup. They also don't need a defenseman who's suspect defensively. Again, Washington already has that. Afinogenov doesn't really add anything to what they have in young players like Gordon or Sutherby.

3. Buffalo shouldn't be giving up Marty Biron when Ryan Miller doesn't look ready and Noronen played awful last year. Gonchar would look great feeding the puck to Drury and co. but it's not worth giving up the team's most reliable netminder.

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Old
10-31-2003, 11:10 AM
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Maybe a little more coming to Washington that could help them out now and the deal seems good to me. Connoly perhaps?

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Old
10-31-2003, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican
Gotta disagree with you there, a rarity to be sure, Enoch.

1. Kolzig is a bit streaky at times, and right now he's playing horribly. Yes, he doesn't have much help, but he's been nowhere near the netminder he was last season. I like the goalie we have now. He's played spectacularly so far...*knock on wood* Everyone says Colorado needs a goalie. No...what we need is for our team to play with more intensity and not fall asleep between periods. And as much as I HATE Skoula and want him gone, I'd rather get a forward prospect for him.

2. Washington doesn't need a starter. They have the NHL's best goaltending prospect in Maxime Ouellet. He'll be called up after Kolzig is traded. Charpentier will provide capably as a backup. They also don't need a defenseman who's suspect defensively. Again, Washington already has that. Afinogenov doesn't really add anything to what they have in young players like Gordon or Sutherby.

3. Buffalo shouldn't be giving up Marty Biron when Ryan Miller doesn't look ready and Noronen played awful last year. Gonchar would look great feeding the puck to Drury and co. but it's not worth giving up the team's most reliable netminder.


I'm going to go hide now.

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Old
10-31-2003, 02:24 PM
  #11
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Biron's been playing too well to give up now. The team is winning (6-5) and with the mission to make the playoffs, why would they ever want to give up before the end of November?

BTW, I wouldn't want Grier. EVER. I'd take out Grier and BUF's 2nd, and maybe I'd do it. If you want a later round pick, fine, but a #2 is too much.

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10-31-2003, 03:48 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican
They have the NHL's best goaltending prospect in Maxime Ouellet.
Ummm, how 'bout no.

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Old
10-31-2003, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eSabre15
Biron's been playing too well to give up now. The team is winning (6-5) and with the mission to make the playoffs, why would they ever want to give up before the end of November?

BTW, I wouldn't want Grier. EVER. I'd take out Grier and BUF's 2nd, and maybe I'd do it. If you want a later round pick, fine, but a #2 is too much.
OOoo, a hot streak. Biron has had those before. It will take one soft goal and its the same old Biron again. Until Biron he can do it over a full season, he's nothing but a decent starting goalie. Miller is the best goalie out of the 3. Period. Also, why wouldn't you want Grier? Hard working, gritty 3rd line foward who can put 15-20 goals with some size and good defensivly. I would easily give up a 2nd, if not more just for him. Also, if you think having a record of 6-5 is oh so great, it shows how much the the standards of other sabres fans have fallen for the team. Buffalo makes out like bandits in the deal, they would probably have to throw in more to get Gonchar and Grier, IMHO.

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Old
11-01-2003, 03:56 PM
  #14
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Just a thought....Buffalo is under pressure to make the playoffs....Washington wants to Dump salary....Colorado needs a goalie...

To Buffalo: Gonchar, Grier
To Washinton: Biron, Afinogenov, Skoula, Colorado's 2nd, Buffalos 2nd
To Colorado: Kolzig.

Zhitnik-Gonchar would be a formidable top pair. Colorado gets their top goalie, and Washington gets a starting goalie and a possible #1 D-man.
I would definitely do this from Buffalo's perspective.

The next minute I am on the phone trying to deal McKee and Campbell and then trying to acquire a RD. Gonchar can replace Delmore's role and I'd look to get rid of him too. Gonchar would cause a lot of dislocation, but he's such a talent I think it's worth it.

I wouldn't pair Gonchar with Zhitnik. Zhitnik's game has picked up tremendously because he's been paired with Fitzpatrick, who's RD.

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Old
11-02-2003, 06:00 AM
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Then who would be the Sbares goalie?Biron has played tremendously well, and as much asd I would like Gonchar, you can't trade you're starting goalie and let Noronen and Miller play.

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11-02-2003, 08:23 AM
  #16
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Why can't you let Miller play? He played well in his two games here and is dominating the AHL right now.

Biron, Afinogenov and a 2nd rounder for Gonchar and Grier? That's a no brainer. The Caps wouldn't even have to include Grier in that deal.

Let me suggest an alternative deal:

To Buffalo: Morris

To Washinton: Biron, Afinogenov, Campbell, Skoula, Colorado's 2nd, Buffalos 2nd

To Colorado: Kolzig, Gonchar, Grier.

Instead of getting another LD, we get a younger RD. There's a perfect pairing for Z. Defense looks like:

Zhitnik / Morris
Kalinin / Fitzpatrick
McKee / Patrick
Tallinder / Delmore

IMO, the next step is to deal McKee and Delmore for a solid physical RD, and pair Tallinder with him. Patrick is the 7th defenseman.

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11-02-2003, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Why can't you let Miller play? He played well in his two games here and is dominating the AHL right now.

Biron, Afinogenov and a 2nd rounder for Gonchar and Grier? That's a no brainer. The Caps wouldn't even have to include Grier in that deal.

Let me suggest an alternative deal:

To Buffalo: Morris

To Washinton: Biron, Afinogenov, Campbell, Skoula, Colorado's 2nd, Buffalos 2nd

To Colorado: Kolzig, Gonchar, Grier.

Instead of getting another LD, we get a younger RD. There's a perfect pairing for Z. Defense looks like:

Zhitnik / Morris
Kalinin / Fitzpatrick
McKee / Patrick
Tallinder / Delmore

IMO, the next step is to deal McKee and Delmore for a solid physical RD, and pair Tallinder with him. Patrick is the 7th defenseman.
Why even involve the Caps at all? If Colorado is keeping tabs on Biron and with Miller's continued strong play in the AHL, then why even go into a deal involving the Caps? Just to be nice? Hell, I'd rather see them work around Biron and extras to the the Avs for a single player than cut an intra-conference team a break on their owners mistakes in payroll.

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11-02-2003, 08:40 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
Why even involve the Caps at all? If Colorado is keeping tabs on Biron and with Miller's continued strong play in the AHL, then why even go into a deal involving the Caps? Just to be nice? Hell, I'd rather see them work around Biron and extras to the the Avs for a single player than cut an intra-conference team a break on their owners mistakes in payroll.
I agree with you that it doesnt make sense for Buffalo to involve Washington, but it does make sense for Colorado. As a Cup contender Colorado would have infinitely more interest in Kolzig than Biron.

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11-02-2003, 08:54 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by loveshack2
I agree with you that it doesnt make sense for Buffalo to involve Washington, but it does make sense for Colorado. As a Cup contender Colorado would have infinitely more interest in Kolzig than Biron.
Washington is not going to package players like that, certainly not Gonchar with players whose value is not as high. Not equitable, and whether or not you agree, McPhee would not do it. He can deal Kolzig and Gonchar separately to different teams and net a greater overall return.

It's not like you pay a fee each time you complete a trade, like E*Trade or something. There's no reason for McPhee to package numerous Washington players in one complex deal.

 
Old
11-02-2003, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
...with Miller's continued strong play in the AHL, .
wow, looked at his stats so far this season-- strong play indeed.

6 games played, 8 goals against! 1.32 gaa, .951% look really good. I should head out to see a game next time I'm home.

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11-02-2003, 09:20 AM
  #21
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the original proposal involves far too many players to be realistic. the caps aren't likely to deal gonchar right now - maybe at the trade deadline - and even then they will demand a high return. kolzig to the avs makes sense but the avs can save themselves a bunch of money if they stick with aebischer for now. they might look at acquiring a veteran money goalie for the playoffs sometime in feb or at the deadline. the caps first priority is to deal jagr -- the issue is not what the caps get in return (the caps would take virtually nothing) - it is how much another team is willing to take of his contract. and if they can swing something they would likely have to take a short-term overpaid player back in return (lindros? cujo?). grier, for his part, is probably one of the last players they would want to deal - he hussles, which is a rarity in DC.

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11-02-2003, 01:26 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Just a thought....Buffalo is under pressure to make the playoffs....Washington wants to Dump salary....Colorado needs a goalie...

To Buffalo: Gonchar, Grier
To Washinton: Biron, Afinogenov, Skoula, Colorado's 2nd, Buffalos 2nd
To Colorado: Kolzig.

Zhitnik-Gonchar would be a formidable top pair. Colorado gets their top goalie, and Washington gets a starting goalie and a possible #1 D-man.
if Darcy made this deal, I would go down and buy seasons tickets.

I think it works well all the way around.

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11-03-2003, 02:41 AM
  #23
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Add me to the side that doesn't like the idea of the Sabres entrusting their playoff hopes this season to Mika Noronen and Ryan Miller.

I don't see the Sabres rolling the dice on whether or not Noronen or Miller could be strong enough to get this team into the playoffs. Even with the additions that a deal like this would bring to the team in front of them.

Plus, at 6-5-1-0 the Sabres are going pretty well. I wouldn't expect a big shake up move right now. At most I could see is a roster tweaking along the lines of Afinogenov for a 3rd/4th line energy forward and a pick or one of their excess defenseman for a 3rd/4th line energy forward.

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11-03-2003, 04:26 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
Add me to the side that doesn't like the idea of the Sabres entrusting their playoff hopes this season to Mika Noronen and Ryan Miller.
There is a standard misconception on this board that, if the Capitals traded Kolzig anywhere that they would require a goalie in return.
The Capitals have Maxime Ouellet at Portland. Should they trade Kolzig
they would do so with the idea of moving Ouellet into the #1 spot.
By the way. The idea that the Capitals trade Kolzig, Gonchar and Grier is ludicrous.

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Old
11-03-2003, 06:11 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
Why even involve the Caps at all? If Colorado is keeping tabs on Biron and with Miller's continued strong play in the AHL, then why even go into a deal involving the Caps? Just to be nice? Hell, I'd rather see them work around Biron and extras to the the Avs for a single player than cut an intra-conference team a break on their owners mistakes in payroll.
Because Kolzig has a playoff track record, and Colorado gets Gonchar in the deal.

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