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The Hall of Very Good

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Old
06-03-2006, 10:30 PM
  #1
Sens Rule
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The Hall of Very Good

Posted this in a thread in NHL talk. But it is more appropriate here.

These are the players I think that are good enough to be in a Hall of Very Good players. Players that were great but fall below the Hall of Fame. Some players in the Hall of Fame would better fit in this category like for instance Bob Pulford, Leo Boiven and Clark Gilles.

It is a comprensive list from 1917 to date and includes active players later in their careers as well. I didn't do goalies yet. They are in alphabetical order. Did I miss anyone or do I have players you think don't belong? The guys I have picked that I think will go in the Hall of Fame are at the end.


Daniel Alfredsson
Tony Amonte
Dave Andreychuk
Dave Babych
Ralph Backstrom
Bob Baun
Barry Beck
Brian Bellows
Red Berenson
Ivan Boldirev
Peter Bondra
Bob Bourne
Carl Brewer
Rob Brind'Amour
Neal Broten
Mike Bullard
Herb Cain
Guy Carboneau
Randy Carlye
Bobby Carpenter
Lorne Carr
Wayne Cashman
Guy Chouinard
Dave Christian
Dino Ciccarelli
Wendel Clark
Odie Cleghorn
Real Cloutier
Geoff Courtnall
Russ Courtnall
Jack Crawford
Dave Creighton
John Cullen
Vince Damphousse
Ken Daneyko
Adam Deadmarsh
Pavol Demitra
Eric Desjardins
Kevin Dineen
Gary Dornhoefer
Steve Duchesne
Dick Duff
Ron Dugay
Patrick Elias
Dave Ellett
Ron Ellis
John Ferguson
Ray Ferraro
Frank Finnigan
Theo Fleury
Mike Foligno
Adam Foote
Robbie Ftorek
Dave Gagner
Johny Gagnon
Gerard Gallant
Danny Gare
Bob Goldham
Bill Goldsworthy
Sergei Gonchar
Butch Goring
Phil Goyette
Dirk Graham
Adam Graves
Ted Green
Ron Greschner
Bill Guerin
Vic Hadfield
Terry Harper
Billy Harris (1955-1969)
Ted Harris
Craig Hartsburg
Derian Hatcher
Kevin Hatcher
Andres Hedberg
Paul Henderson
Camille Henry
Bill Hicke
Ken Hodge
Flash Hollett
Phil Housley
Dennis Hull
Dale Hunter
Al Iafrate
Craig Janney
Doug Jarvis
Valeri Kamensky
Alexei Kasatonov
Rick Kehoe
Tim Kerr
Vladimir Konstantinov
Alexei Kovalev
Steve Larmer
Pierre Larouche
Reed Larson
Reggie Leach
John LeClair
Claude Lemieux
Trevor Linden
Ken Linesman
Ed Litzenberger
Hakan Loob
Kevin Lowe
Tom Lysiak
John MacLean
Paul MacLean
Rick MacLeish
Pete Mahovlich
Pit Martin
Rick Martin
Dennis Maruk
Brad McCrimmon
John McKenzie
Peter McNab
Scott Mellanby
Rick Middleton
Alexander Mogilny
Ken Mosdell
Kirk Muller
Marcus Naslund
Mats Naslund
Petr Nedved
Eric Nesterenko
Bernie Nicholls
Bob Nevin
Scott Niedermeyer
Joe Nieuwendyk
Ulf Nilson
Kent Nilsson
Owen Nolan
Teppo Numminen
Bob Nystrom
John Ogrodnick
Murray Oliver
Terry O'Reilly
Sandis Ozolinsh
Wilf Paiment
Ziggy Palffy
Jim Pappin
J.P. Parise
James Patrick
Mike Peca
Barry Pederson
Barclay Plager
Dean Prentice
Bob Probert
Jean Pronovost
Brian Propp
Claude Provost
Rob Ramage
Craig Ramsay
Mike Ramsey
Mickey Redmond
Paul Reinhart
Stephane Richer
Mike Ridley
Rene Robert
Gary Roberts
Jeremy Roenick
Cliff Ronning
Bobby Rousseau
Geoff Sanderson
Tomas Sandstrom
Al Secord
Eddie Shack
Ray Sheppard
Charlie Simmer
Craig Simpson
Bobby Smith
Stan Smyl
Pat Stapleton
Anton Statsny
Thomas Steen
Kevin Stevens
Gaye Stewart
Patrick Sundstrom
Gary Suter
Brent Sutter
Brian Sutter
Petr Svoboda
Jean-Guy Talbot
Tony Tanti
Marc Tardif
Dave Taylor
Steve Thomas
Jimmy Thomson
Esa Tikkanen
Keith Tkachuk
Rick Tocchet
John Tonelli
J. C. Tremblay
Pierre Turgeon
Ian Turnbull
Garry Unger
Carol Vadnais
Rick Vaive
Moose Vasko
Pat Verbeek
Ryan Walter
Glen Wesley
Ed Westfall
Kenny Wharram
Bill White
Tiger Wiliams
Doug Wilson
Tim Young

Players who I think should or will make the Hall of Fame

Glenn Anderson
Rob Blake
Pavel Bure
Chris Chelios
Sergei Fedorov
Peter Forsberg
Ron Francis
Doug Gilmour
Mark Howe
Brett Hull
Paul Kariya
Igor Larionov
Brian Leetch
Nicklas Lidstrom
Eric Lindros
Al MacInnis
Sergei Makarov
Mike Modano
Adam Oates
Chris Pronger
Mark Recchi
Luc Robitaille
Joe Sakic
Teemu Selanne
Brendan Shanahan
Scott Stevens
Mats Sundin
Steve Yzerman

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Old
06-03-2006, 11:34 PM
  #2
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WOW, thats quite alot of work you did. Nice job. I cant imagine all those bottom guys make it though, isnt it a max of 3 per year?

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Old
06-03-2006, 11:41 PM
  #3
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Originally Posted by Realm
WOW, thats quite alot of work you did. Nice job. I cant imagine all those bottom guys make it though, isnt it a max of 3 per year?
Max is four per year. Some of those guys will need several attempts to be inducted.

Sens, an excellent compilation. I'm guessing you put that together over the course of several hours, as the original thread in the NHL forum only appeared this morning. You went above and beyond the call of duty, putting that list together on relatively short notice, and during the first weekend of June at that.

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Old
06-04-2006, 12:26 AM
  #4
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Excellent job! I agree with most of the people you listed. A few random observations:

- If Mike Peca is on the list (as he deserves to be), you should have to include Jere Lehtinen as well. Peca's more physical, but Lehtinen is even better defensively and has more Selkes.
- I'd probably include Pelle Lindbergh. He was a dominant goalie during his all-too-brief time in the NHL. I guess that makes him more eligible for a "Hall of the Great for a Short Period of Time", though.
- I'd probably include Ken Morrow. He was an outstanding defensive defenseman and a very good playoff performer. He's comparable to Bill White and Brad McCrimmon, and I agree they both belong on the list.

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Old
06-04-2006, 12:31 AM
  #5
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Kariya? Lindros? okay then...

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Old
06-04-2006, 01:52 AM
  #6
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Very nice list, I agree with almost everything. The ones you list as "Very Good" that I think should/could go in the most are Carbonneau, Housley, Roenick and Niedermayer. It could go either way for many of the players listed.

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Old
06-04-2006, 08:44 AM
  #7
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I know you haven't gotten to goalies yet, but the Hall of Fame is a joke without Rogie Vachon

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Old
06-04-2006, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider
Excellent job! I agree with most of the people you listed. A few random observations:

- If Mike Peca is on the list (as he deserves to be), you should have to include Jere Lehtinen as well. Peca's more physical, but Lehtinen is even better defensively and has more Selkes.
- I'd probably include Pelle Lindbergh. He was a dominant goalie during his all-too-brief time in the NHL. I guess that makes him more eligible for a "Hall of the Great for a Short Period of Time", though.
- I'd probably include Ken Morrow. He was an outstanding defensive defenseman and a very good playoff performer. He's comparable to Bill White and Brad McCrimmon, and I agree they both belong on the list.
I would include Lehtinen. Though my 'active' players on the list are not complete by any means. I missed Lehtinen because he hasn't played that long, though some active players way have played less seasons than him.

I didn't do goalies at all yet. All the players are forwards or D-Men.

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Old
06-04-2006, 10:04 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benji
Very nice list, I agree with almost everything. The ones you list as "Very Good" that I think should/could go in the most are Carbonneau, Housley, Roenick and Niedermayer. It could go either way for many of the players listed.
Niedermeyer will probably eventually make the Hall of Fame. He already would be in the Hall of Very Good if he retired today.

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Old
06-04-2006, 10:18 AM
  #10
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Carbonneau will probably be enshrined in the HHoF at some point not too far down the road.

Jean-Claude Tremblay should have been admitted years ago. He's the best D-man not in the Hall, an outfit that does seem to neglect blueliners.

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Old
06-04-2006, 10:26 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justsomeguy
Carbonneau will probably be enshrined in the HHoF at some point not too far down the road.

Jean-Claude Tremblay should have been admitted years ago. He's the best D-man not in the Hall, an outfit that does seem to neglect blueliners.
I agree about J.C. but he likely never will get in the Hall of Fame. He has little chance at this point. That is my he is in my Hall of Very Good.

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Old
06-04-2006, 12:37 PM
  #12
ScaredStreit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule
Posted this in a thread in NHL talk. But it is more appropriate here.

These are the players I think that are good enough to be in a Hall of Very Good players. Players that were great but fall below the Hall of Fame. Some players in the Hall of Fame would better fit in this category like for instance Bob Pulford, Leo Boiven and Clark Gilles.

It is a comprensive list from 1917 to date and includes active players later in their careers as well. I didn't do goalies yet. They are in alphabetical order. Did I miss anyone or do I have players you think don't belong? The guys I have picked that I think will go in the Hall of Fame are at the end.


Daniel Alfredsson
Tony Amonte
Dave Andreychuk
Dave Babych
Ralph Backstrom
Bob Baun
Barry Beck
Brian Bellows
Red Berenson
Ivan Boldirev
Peter Bondra
Bob Bourne
Carl Brewer
Rob Brind'Amour
Neal Broten
Mike Bullard
Herb Cain
Guy Carboneau
Randy Carlye
Bobby Carpenter
Lorne Carr
Wayne Cashman
Guy Chouinard
Dave Christian
Dino Ciccarelli
Wendel Clark
Odie Cleghorn
Real Cloutier
Geoff Courtnall
Russ Courtnall
Jack Crawford
Dave Creighton
John Cullen
Vince Damphousse
Ken Daneyko
Adam Deadmarsh
Pavol Demitra
Eric Desjardins
Kevin Dineen
Gary Dornhoefer
Steve Duchesne
Dick Duff
Ron Dugay
Patrick Elias
Dave Ellett
Ron Ellis
John Ferguson
Ray Ferraro
Frank Finnigan
Theo Fleury
Mike Foligno
Adam Foote
Robbie Ftorek
Dave Gagner
Johny Gagnon
Gerard Gallant
Danny Gare
Bob Goldham
Bill Goldsworthy
Sergei Gonchar
Butch Goring
Phil Goyette
Dirk Graham
Adam Graves
Ted Green
Ron Greschner
Bill Guerin
Vic Hadfield
Terry Harper
Billy Harris (1955-1969)
Ted Harris
Craig Hartsburg
Derian Hatcher
Kevin Hatcher
Andres Hedberg
Paul Henderson
Camille Henry
Bill Hicke
Ken Hodge
Flash Hollett
Phil Housley
Dennis Hull
Dale Hunter
Al Iafrate
Craig Janney
Doug Jarvis
Valeri Kamensky
Alexei Kasatonov
Rick Kehoe
Tim Kerr
Vladimir Konstantinov
Alexei Kovalev
Steve Larmer
Pierre Larouche
Reed Larson
Reggie Leach
John LeClair
Claude Lemieux
Trevor Linden
Ken Linesman
Ed Litzenberger
Hakan Loob
Kevin Lowe
Tom Lysiak
John MacLean
Paul MacLean
Rick MacLeish
Pete Mahovlich
Pit Martin
Rick Martin
Dennis Maruk
Brad McCrimmon
John McKenzie
Peter McNab
Scott Mellanby
Rick Middleton
Alexander Mogilny
Ken Mosdell
Kirk Muller
Marcus Naslund
Mats Naslund
Petr Nedved
Eric Nesterenko
Bernie Nicholls
Bob Nevin
Scott Niedermeyer
Joe Nieuwendyk
Ulf Nilson
Kent Nilsson
Owen Nolan
Teppo Numminen
Bob Nystrom
John Ogrodnick
Murray Oliver
Terry O'Reilly
Sandis Ozolinsh
Wilf Paiment
Ziggy Palffy
Jim Pappin
J.P. Parise
James Patrick
Mike Peca
Barry Pederson
Barclay Plager
Dean Prentice
Bob Probert
Jean Pronovost
Brian Propp
Claude Provost
Rob Ramage
Craig Ramsay
Mike Ramsey
Mickey Redmond
Paul Reinhart
Stephane Richer
Mike Ridley
Rene Robert
Gary Roberts
Jeremy Roenick
Cliff Ronning
Bobby Rousseau
Geoff Sanderson
Tomas Sandstrom
Al Secord
Eddie Shack
Ray Sheppard
Charlie Simmer
Craig Simpson
Bobby Smith
Stan Smyl
Pat Stapleton
Anton Statsny
Thomas Steen
Kevin Stevens
Gaye Stewart
Patrick Sundstrom
Gary Suter
Brent Sutter
Brian Sutter
Petr Svoboda
Jean-Guy Talbot
Tony Tanti
Marc Tardif
Dave Taylor
Steve Thomas
Jimmy Thomson
Esa Tikkanen
Keith Tkachuk
Rick Tocchet
John Tonelli
J. C. Tremblay
Pierre Turgeon
Ian Turnbull
Garry Unger
Carol Vadnais
Rick Vaive
Moose Vasko
Pat Verbeek
Ryan Walter
Glen Wesley
Ed Westfall
Kenny Wharram
Bill White
Tiger Wiliams
Doug Wilson
Tim Young

Players who I think should or will make the Hall of Fame

Glenn Anderson
Rob Blake
Pavel Bure
Chris Chelios
Sergei Fedorov
Peter Forsberg
Ron Francis
Doug Gilmour
Mark Howe
Brett Hull
Paul Kariya
Igor Larionov
Brian Leetch
Nicklas Lidstrom
Eric Lindros
Al MacInnis
Sergei Makarov
Mike Modano
Adam Oates
Chris Pronger
Mark Recchi
Luc Robitaille
Joe Sakic
Teemu Selanne
Brendan Shanahan
Scott Stevens
Mats Sundin
Steve Yzerman

I agree, great list. Only difference is I would have put Niedermeyer as hall of fame. But very good list, I think Adam Oates is the most underrated player and deserves the hall of fame, glad to see someone else say that.

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Old
06-04-2006, 01:07 PM
  #13
Bluesfan1981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benji
Very nice list, I agree with almost everything. The ones you list as "Very Good" that I think should/could go in the most are Carbonneau, Housley, Roenick and Niedermayer. It could go either way for many of the players listed.
I agree with that except for Carbonneau. And I think Tremblay and Provost should be in. I wouldn't mind seeing Bernie Nicholls making it; 1209 points in 1127 games.


Last edited by Bluesfan1981: 06-04-2006 at 01:14 PM.
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Old
06-04-2006, 01:24 PM
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I would also vote for Andreychuk, Ciccarelli, Nieuwendyk, and maybe a few others for the Hall of Fame.

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Old
06-04-2006, 02:38 PM
  #15
Sens Rule
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Originally Posted by Bluesfan1981
I would also vote for Andreychuk, Ciccarelli, Nieuwendyk, and maybe a few others for the Hall of Fame.
I might vote for those guys to for the Hall of Fame. As I went through the making of this list though I saw that there were several players on my list of the Very good that are as good as these guys. I wouldn't mind if they made the Hall of Fame but maybe they shouldn't be there and should be in a lower Hall of Fame.

Like Ciccarelli vs Tim Kerr. From the same era. Who is better?
Nieuwendyk vs. Roenick and Fleury. Who is better? Should all 3 be in the Hall of fame? Or none of the 3?

Maybe Andreychuk and Ciccarelli just have such huge numbers career wise they need to get in regardless of their limited peaks or not as high peaks?

Liker I pick Recchi for the Hall of Fame but not these three. Why? Personal preferance. The belief he was at an elite level for a longer time.

But Gartner is in. He is very consistent and has huge lifetime numbers but was he really better than Ciccarelli? Andreychuk?

Hard decisions.......

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Old
06-04-2006, 02:39 PM
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Sens Rule
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I am adding Weight to my list of the Very Good.

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Old
06-04-2006, 06:00 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule
I am adding Weight to my list of the Very Good.
Those lists were pretty impressive. Nice work.

A few old-timers you might want to consider adding to the very good list:

Paul Thompson (more points than anyone else from `34-`38)
Fleming Mackell (good regular season numbers, excellent playoff numbers)
Marty Pavelich (top defensive forward of the 50s)

I`d also remove Chounaird and Young from the list. JMO.

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Old
06-04-2006, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule
I might vote for those guys to for the Hall of Fame. As I went through the making of this list though I saw that there were several players on my list of the Very good that are as good as these guys. I wouldn't mind if they made the Hall of Fame but maybe they shouldn't be there and should be in a lower Hall of Fame.

Like Ciccarelli vs Tim Kerr. From the same era. Who is better?
Nieuwendyk vs. Roenick and Fleury. Who is better? Should all 3 be in the Hall of fame? Or none of the 3?

Maybe Andreychuk and Ciccarelli just have such huge numbers career wise they need to get in regardless of their limited peaks or not as high peaks?

Liker I pick Recchi for the Hall of Fame but not these three. Why? Personal preferance. The belief he was at an elite level for a longer time.

But Gartner is in. He is very consistent and has huge lifetime numbers but was he really better than Ciccarelli? Andreychuk?

Hard decisions.......
Nieuwendyk will be in the HHOF. One of six players to win a Cup with six different teams. Won the Conn Smythe in 1999. I know a lot of people will advocate for Claude Lemieux, who won one more Cup than Nieuwendyk, but Nieuwendyk was a much better player in the regular season, and is a much better human being.

Niedermayer falls under the "no, not yet" class. He turns 33 this year, but has done exceptionally well over the last three seasons - a Stanley Cup and a tie for the playoff scoring lead in 2003, the Norris Trophy in 2004, and a Norris nomination and probable first team all-star selection this year. One more year at his current level, or two more years at a slightly lower level (top five or six defenceman in the league instead of top two) and Niedermayer will be a lock. If international accomplishments meant anything to HHOF voters, Niedermayer would be a lock.

If Edmonton wins the Cup this year, Pronger probably cements his place as an HHOF gimmie. Even if they don't, he still has three to four years of elite play ahead of him, and should manage to play his way onto everyone's lists.

If Carolina wins the Cup this year, Mark Recchi probably will get in, even though I view him as just a shade below HHOF status.

justsomeguy, I don't think Carbonneau will get in. Call it a hunch for some reason. Carbo is the best defensive forward to enter the league since Bob Gainey, but I don't see Carbo making it. But those who don't think he belongs should watch his defensive dominance in the 1993 playoffs. As for JC Tremblay, you and I both know the reason he's not in the HHOF. It's the same reason that Mark Howe (who I consider the best defenceman not in the HHOF) hasn't been enshrined: they are borderline HHOF players who chose to play in the WHA instead of the NHL.

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06-04-2006, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule

Like Ciccarelli vs Tim Kerr. From the same era. Who is better?
Nieuwendyk vs. Roenick and Fleury. Who is better? Should all 3 be in the Hall of fame? Or none of the 3?
Kerr might have been better in his prime, but Ciccarelli piled up more than 600 goals so I'm sure he'll get in eventually. Andreychuk will certainly get in, maybe even Pat Verbeek who has more than 500 goals will get in one day.

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Old
06-04-2006, 09:20 PM
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Former leafs Lorne Carr 1930's 1940's, sid smith (1950's) forward an defensive forward bob davidson (1940's) deserves to be in the hall of fame. They absolutley deserve to be in the hall of very good.

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Old
06-04-2006, 09:31 PM
  #21
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Pretty good List. IMO even with the low standards of the HOF selection committee only about half your recommendations will get into the HOF. Your Very good list certainly covers a wide range of players. Well done.

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Old
06-05-2006, 05:31 AM
  #22
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You forgot one big name in your list of players that will make the HOF.

Mark Messier

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Old
06-05-2006, 04:07 PM
  #23
Sens Rule
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Originally Posted by SGY19
You forgot one big name in your list of players that will make the HOF.

Mark Messier
Your right, though he is clearly a Hall of Famer.

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Old
06-05-2006, 04:30 PM
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Cecil Dillon
Gus Mortson
Sid Smith

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Old
06-05-2006, 04:38 PM
  #25
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Gary Suter? I know he's not loved around here, but he was a very good defenseman during his prime.

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