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Rumor : Arnott to Mtl! (from RDS)

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Old
06-08-2006, 12:30 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
(Did I omit anyone?)
Streit

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06-08-2006, 12:43 PM
  #127
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Streit

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06-08-2006, 12:51 PM
  #128
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This rumour simply sounds like news guys putting together team needs with the UFA list, add in a little past relationship between the player and managment and voila they come up with Arnott's name.

You'd have to torture Gainey for weeks to get him to admit that the sky is blue, given that he's the man that makes the personnel decisions, I'd take this rumour with a grain of salt.

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06-08-2006, 01:10 PM
  #129
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From the anti-Arnott front...

It's not that he's such a bad player. Certainly on the contract he had last year in Dallas, he's worth having. Whether he's a little inconsistent or a little softer sometimes than you want him to be, the bottom line stats are still there, and at $3M he wasn't counted on to be THE star. The Stars have Modano, Guerin, Zubov, and Turco to be the real stars, and then Arnott, Lehtinen, Morrow and those guys form a really nice second tier.

In Montreal, we're looking at Koivu and Kovalev as the beginning of our core stars. We need to add to that core somehow. Markov probably goes there on his next contract. Now do you try to promote Arnott from his second tier in Dallas to a $5M first tier with us? I dunno. These days you have Sergei Gonchars, Bryan McCabes bagging $5M+ on long-term contracts. Nice enough players for what they do. I look at Arnott as something similar. He isn't a bad player by any stretch. But I just fundamentally do not think that successful teams will be able to get away with having second tier players tied up long term earning first tier money.

Arnott at $9M/3yrs, excellent! Arnott at $25M/5yrs no freaking way! And my guess is he's going to get much much closer to the second figure than the first.

I'd much rather have Robert Lang for 1 year. The offense and size are similar. A bit more physicality from Arnott at times is probably offset by some optimistic hope that Lang could produce a bit more if he clicks well with Kovalev. But the major, massive, unmatched advantage Lang has is the flexibility that the single solitary year remaining on his contract provides. If something better comes next year, you drop him. You can't do that when you're stuck with at $25M/5yr contract. Now, I don't like the idea of getting Luongo. But consider. Luongo is saying he wants just a 1-year deal so he becomes UFA next year. Do you want to sign Arnott and kiss Luongo goodbye? Or any other similar UFA who comes onto the market in the next 5 years? Arnott is simply not the kind of guy to tie up those resources in. Nice enough player, and seemingly a nice fit to our needs too, but just not sensibly viable from a financial perspective. I even like Arnott better than Lang as a player. But if we're going to have a successful team in Montreal, it will have to be run intelligently, and the concept of picking up a UFA-Arnott is just not an intelligent one... it smacks of desperation IMO.

Assuming that there isn't any remote chance of an amicable $9M/3yr Arnott signing, that is. Who really knows. It sounds so incredibly far-fetched to me that I'm not even ready to entertain it in a hypothetical argument.

Lang. $2M. That's it, that's all. No desperation. No albatross.

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06-08-2006, 01:22 PM
  #130
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BG,

I too would prefer Lang for one year if available. However at some point you have to put your team together where the major core players will stay together more than 8 months. Relying on getting some unnanmed UFA in 2007 who may or may not be available once his free agent status takes effect is the type of idiotic strategy JFJ and Richard Peddie think up. Just think of all the great players who were supposed to hit the UFA market this off season, but somehow got signed to long term contracts long ago. As a result, we have one of the worst free agent classes of all time, when in fact with the lowering of the UFA age it was supposed to be outstanding.

Arnott is not the greatest solution, but he is the most available one at the present time (the emphasis is on the present). And like it has been mentioned numerous times, hockey execs are in charge of a multi billion dollar industry. They tend to live in the present way more than us prospect / what if loving fans.

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06-08-2006, 01:23 PM
  #131
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And let's get one thing clear, that $3 million per year figure on Arnott is bogus. The guy is going to get 4.5 million if he ends up in Montreal.

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06-08-2006, 01:35 PM
  #132
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It it such an epiphany to realize that veteran stars command high salaries (if they're not chronically injured or too slowed down by age)? Sure, Arnott was the second center in Dallas, but for gosh sakes, Mike Modano, a future HOFer, is the first, and it's no disgrace to play behind him! I certainly wouldn't mind getting Robert Lang for one year. Either one would be an upgrade on Ribeiro, who has been all "promise" since 1998.

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06-08-2006, 01:36 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
The only way we're acquiring one of the top end defensman available, is if we're moving one of Rivet or Souray, and i don't see that happening
What's wrong with adding another good defenseman? How is getting another top end defenseman stuntink Komi's growth???

Our defense is average at best, a guy like Danny Markov with grit, skill and offensive ability can only enhance our team!

komi A.Markov
Rivet D.Markov
Souray Dandy

Streit

I love the cube's hustle and grit, but his weakness become obvious when he starts to play on a daily basis.

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06-08-2006, 01:43 PM
  #134
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Not to burst this happy go lucky bubble !

But this rumour started from some guy on yesterday's Broadcast mentionning the Habs are also interested in having a go at Jason Arnott ... but lets be frank everyone is ! including crazy loo Lamoriello !

The only way the Habs are going to get a Top Right handed Forward is by develloping him, or paying CONSIDERABLY more than market average ( Taxes etc.. )

For Arnott to play in Montreal, you'd have to pay him upwards of what you are paying Alex Kovalev ... In the 5 - 6 million area.

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06-08-2006, 01:45 PM
  #135
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I won't be happy until a deal is done..

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06-08-2006, 01:56 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitué
Why make a deal - and loose players in the trade - before July 1st ? If he wants to play in Montreal, he will sign after July 1st. And if he is not, what's the point acquiring him before July 1st ?
Because if Gainey signs Arnott to a contract before July then he avoids Arnott's possibility of testing out the free market and raising his salary to a possible 4.5-5 million /yr .

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06-08-2006, 02:03 PM
  #137
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Two positives that I can see.

1) Arnott will make Bonk look good.

2) RDS is reporting it.

Kovalev, Ribs, Bonk, Arnott, Zed that's almost 2 complete lines of floater.

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06-08-2006, 02:04 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritone
Because if Gainey signs Arnott to a contract before July then he avoids Arnott's possibility of testing out the free market and raising his salary to a possible 4.5-5 million /yr .
And this potentially lower salary would appeal to Arnott and his agent because...

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06-08-2006, 02:14 PM
  #139
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I would indeed prefer Lang or even Shanahan than Arnott.

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Old
06-08-2006, 02:16 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe

Kovalev, Ribs, Bonk, Arnott, Zed that's almost 2 complete lines of floater.
I can't see all those guys sticking around, especially if Arnott is picked up (Ribs, Zed?).

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06-08-2006, 02:19 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe
Two positives that I can see.

1) Arnott will make Bonk look good.

2) RDS is reporting it.

Kovalev, Ribs, Bonk, Arnott, Zed that's almost 2 complete lines of floater.
Bonk on the third line
Zednik is gone
Arnott centering our second line and he's nowhere near a floater.
Ribs probably gone if we get Arnott
Kovalev is a game breaker, not a floater. He either makes a game or he's invisible.

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06-08-2006, 02:27 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AH
BG,

I too would prefer Lang for one year if available. However at some point you have to put your team together where the major core players will stay together more than 8 months. Relying on getting some unnanmed UFA in 2007 who may or may not be available once his free agent status takes effect is the type of idiotic strategy JFJ and Richard Peddie think up. Just think of all the great players who were supposed to hit the UFA market this off season, but somehow got signed to long term contracts long ago. As a result, we have one of the worst free agent classes of all time, when in fact with the lowering of the UFA age it was supposed to be outstanding.
Don't call it waiting for some unnamed UFA in 2007 then, I don't care. That's just a throwaway advertising gimmick, used car salesman talk for "dammit! DON'T SIGN ARNOTT!" The bottom line is you have to get the right players to form your core. Maybe one comes in 2007, 2008, 2030, or never. *IF* one comes in 2007 and you're SOL to sign him because you're paying too much to watch Arnott play 20-30 games a year instead, then that sounds like the more idiotic strategy IMHO.

If it turns out there are better core-like core players available at other positions, or even if you have to develop them more slowly yourself instead of relying on free agency, then so be it. Waiting is not the strategy in and of itself. Getting the right players is.

Just as an aside... Why do we say the team shouldn't draft by position, and yet we should sign players by position? At least, in terms of the really big money guys. $25M/5yrs would be a huge investment, and it would shape the direction of the team for half a decade. Do you make that investment, irrevocably take that path forward for the franchise just to fill a specific need, even if imperfectly? Or do you instead choose to spend that money on the "best player available"? The Elias, Arnott, Chara types may end up being worth the money they get. They are BPAs, whether our defense looks pretty good or we have a lot of wingers or not. They are better players than Jason Arnott. Does it really make sense to say we need a big RH 2nd line centre, so overpay and blow the cap on Arnott just because he's essentially the best of a bad lot at his specific position, or do you really try to get the best players possible onto those big-money contracts, and assume that you'll always have room for a superstar, the right superstar, regardless of position? And then that you can plug in the non-essential 2nd tier components at will and change it up from year to year if necessary, according to short term need, picking whatever is on the market.

I'll say that Arnott would be a great 2nd tier temporary/trial component plug-in, in that sense. But I'm guessing he'd be a dumb long-term first-tier core component of any franchise. And I want to save that long-term first-tier spot... for now!... for a truly deserving first-tier player. Our team still isn't maxed out in other areas and fully developed yet. If a couple of years roll by and we've neither been able to develop a better option for 2nd-tier centre nor found a better one in the free agent markets, and if we still find ourself sitting with $5M to play around with when all of the other weaknesses on the entire team have been fully addressed... well then okay, blow it on an Arnott. Can't hurt. But we're nowhere near that point yet.

Quote:
Arnott is not the greatest solution, but he is the most available one at the present time (the emphasis is on the present).
Ribeiro is still the most available one, I guess. Well, there are tonnes of available ones, and I'm not sure that trying to promote a Bonk or Plekanec would be any worse than a "solution" which involves tieing so much money up in an available Arnott either.
Quote:
And like it has been mentioned numerous times, hockey execs are in charge of a multi billion dollar industry. They tend to live in the present way more than us prospect / what if loving fans.
For some reason, they do indeed. You'd think they'd be smarter. Oh well.

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06-08-2006, 02:50 PM
  #143
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Please please please stop torturing me with those lines that makes no sense.

1. Andrei Kostitsyn is a RW not a LW, is brother is a LW and Grabovski is a LW. Stop playing him left.

2. We need another good center to replace Ribeiro, he will either be traded after or simply released. He got little to no value. This will be the biggest single upgrade for the hockey team. Arnott, Savard, whoever! Ribeiro needs to go! Hes a 2nd center, in a AHL team.

3. I think the management is ready to deal Ryder away to give Kostitsyn some space.(If you look at Gainey's face when Ryder failed to put the puck deep on that last Carolina goal...) And Kostitsyn can do everything Ryder is doing and much more. The target is a good solid D for Ryder.

4. Guillaume Latendresse is not NHL ready.(But Grabovski is!)

5. If Arnott is signed forget about another UFA in the forwards. We have youngs guns to integrate and Arnott would be more than enought a change. My possible lines:

Higgins - Koivu - Kovalev
Grabovski - Arnott(anything NOT Rebeiro.) - Kostitsyn(They played together at WC and it was smashing)
(Latendresse + Murray)-Pleckanec-Perezhogin
(Bonk+Grit young gun)-Begin-(Downey + Chipchura)

Players to integrate this year:

Kostitsyn(RW)(9.0)
Grabovski(LW)(7.5)(Helped by the integration of Andrei and vice-versa)

On a 10-30 games basis

-D-
Emelin(30 games, 8th D)
JP Coté(20 games injury backup)

-F-
Chipchura(30-40 games, grit, he looks ready for a serious grit roles at the wing, big AHL ice time.)
Latendresse(10-20 games injury backup, Future Top 6, maybe on 3rd line but not on the 4th. Big AHL ice time.)
Ferland(30-40 games, grit, AHL)
Maxim Lapierre (10-20 games injury backup,grit, AHL)
Micheal Lambert(5-10 games,grit, AHL)

Why you dont sign Elias, too expensive and you want money for Markov next year. Langerbrunner, grit good but I think the young guns cost less, gives more, prepare the future. Kostitsyn got the same grit but is less mature. If the habs dont play Kosti hard this year the kid and organization will suffer. Keep working with the current strategy! Young=good. It works with Anaheim, it will work with the amazing depth of Montreal prospects.

Players on their way out:

Ryder ( 1 way player, at his top, Sniper+, chance of improval 10%, would be better with a better center(richards), defensive liability is big and the kid is NOT the wise guy on the team.)

Ribeiro (Slow, slow, slow, small, cant play on bottom 6, no grit)

Zednik(Theres 2 zednik, one that sleeps most night and the other that you get 10 games a year)

Sourray(Old NHL, Leadership+, Slow, Doesnt play the body, Can be hurt often)

I say most of them should be exchanged for draft picks! Keep working with the scouting strenght.


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06-08-2006, 03:02 PM
  #144
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Even if small I like Savard, Sabres proved this year that speed can win everything. I get Savard long term more than Arnott. But Arnott is a stabilizing force that can be quite good for the team.

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06-08-2006, 03:06 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyhabsfan
What's wrong with adding another good defenseman? How is getting another top end defenseman stuntink Komi's growth???

Our defense is average at best, a guy like Danny Markov with grit, skill and offensive ability can only enhance our team!

komi A.Markov
Rivet D.Markov
Souray Dandy

Streit

I love the cube's hustle and grit, but his weakness become obvious when he starts to play on a daily basis.
Before shaking your head, maybe you should consider the following;

Markov-Komisarek
Souray-Rivet
Bouillon-Dandenault

Is our top 6 as of today...

If the Habs acquire a top pairing defensman, who do you think is the most likely to get bumped down? Markov? Rivet? Souray?

It won't be any of those 3, so the logical, and easiest choice is Komisarek.

And in anycase, Danny Markov isn't a top end defensman I was talking about, you can put Danny Markov in our lineup without having to move Komisarek down. However, if you acquire a top end defensman (Lidstrom, Chara, Redded) Komisarek gets bumped down. That's where his development could stunt.

Either way, our defense isn't a major concern, and if guys like Markov, Souray and Komisarek continue to improve, it'll go from an average defense, to an above average defense.

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06-08-2006, 03:11 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
Don't call it waiting for some unnamed UFA in 2007 then, I don't care. That's just a throwaway advertising gimmick, used car salesman talk for "dammit! DON'T SIGN ARNOTT!" The bottom line is you have to get the right players to form your core. Maybe one comes in 2007, 2008, 2030, or never. *IF* one comes in 2007 and you're SOL to sign him because you're paying too much to watch Arnott play 20-30 games a year instead, then that sounds like the more idiotic strategy IMHO.

If it turns out there are better core-like core players available at other positions, or even if you have to develop them more slowly yourself instead of relying on free agency, then so be it. Waiting is not the strategy in and of itself. Getting the right players is.

Just as an aside... Why do we say the team shouldn't draft by position, and yet we should sign players by position? At least, in terms of the really big money guys. $25M/5yrs would be a huge investment, and it would shape the direction of the team for half a decade. Do you make that investment, irrevocably take that path forward for the franchise just to fill a specific need, even if imperfectly? Or do you instead choose to spend that money on the "best player available"? The Elias, Arnott, Chara types may end up being worth the money they get. They are BPAs, whether our defense looks pretty good or we have a lot of wingers or not. They are better players than Jason Arnott. Does it really make sense to say we need a big RH 2nd line centre, so overpay and blow the cap on Arnott just because he's essentially the best of a bad lot at his specific position, or do you really try to get the best players possible onto those big-money contracts, and assume that you'll always have room for a superstar, the right superstar, regardless of position? And then that you can plug in the non-essential 2nd tier components at will and change it up from year to year if necessary, according to short term need, picking whatever is on the market.

I'll say that Arnott would be a great 2nd tier temporary/trial component plug-in, in that sense. But I'm guessing he'd be a dumb long-term first-tier core component of any franchise. And I want to save that long-term first-tier spot... for now!... for a truly deserving first-tier player. Our team still isn't maxed out in other areas and fully developed yet. If a couple of years roll by and we've neither been able to develop a better option for 2nd-tier centre nor found a better one in the free agent markets, and if we still find ourself sitting with $5M to play around with when all of the other weaknesses on the entire team have been fully addressed... well then okay, blow it on an Arnott. Can't hurt. But we're nowhere near that point yet.

Ribeiro is still the most available one, I guess. Well, there are tonnes of available ones, and I'm not sure that trying to promote a Bonk or Plekanec would be any worse than a "solution" which involves tieing so much money up in an available Arnott either.

For some reason, they do indeed. You'd think they'd be smarter. Oh well.
Was Buffalo near that spot or Edmonton? With the cap going up there is no reason to be well under the cap. Realistically, there would be money to sign a star next year after signing Arnott. He would be a piece of the puzzle and part of a strategy to build a fast team. Signing Arnott doesnt preclude trades. If some of the youngsters develop even further the Habs would be in a position to challenge and would have cap room created by low paid players in key positions. Koivu and Kovy arent getting any younger and its time to think about challenging. Arnott and Reddon for example would put the Habs over the hump if Higgy, Pleks, Komi, Streit, Murray, Kots etc develop.

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06-08-2006, 03:11 PM
  #147
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Not to mention we need to keep cap room to re-sign Markov, souray, and rivet who are all UFAs after next season. We have enough room to either KEEP these guys or REPLACE them. There is no way we can ADD another large contract to our defense corps. As well, Komisarek will soon be looking for some decent money.

Just because we have cap room, it doesn't mean we should go out and blow it this off-season.

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06-08-2006, 03:14 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
Before shaking your head, maybe you should consider the following;

Markov-Komisarek
Souray-Rivet
Bouillon-Dandenault

Is our top 6 as of today...

If the Habs acquire a top pairing defensman, who do you think is the most likely to get bumped down? Markov? Rivet? Souray?

It won't be any of those 3, so the logical, and easiest choice is Komisarek.

And in anycase, Danny Markov isn't a top end defensman I was talking about, you can put Danny Markov in our lineup without having to move Komisarek down. However, if you acquire a top end defensman (Lidstrom, Chara, Redded) Komisarek gets bumped down. That's where his development could stunt.

Either way, our defense isn't a major concern, and if guys like Markov, Souray and Komisarek continue to improve, it'll go from an average defense, to an above average defense.
Having a fixation on top pairing first line etc doesnt build a team with depth. Reddon would be great. Komi would still get minutes and learn from the best.

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06-08-2006, 03:16 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AH
Not to mention we need to keep cap room to re-sign Markov, souray, and rivet who are all UFAs after next season. We have enough room to either KEEP these guys or REPLACE them. There is no way we can ADD another large contract to our defense corps. As well, Komisarek will soon be looking for some decent money.

Just because we have cap room, it doesn't mean we should go out and blow it this off-season.
Wont the cap most likely go up? Push the limits go for Gold. Souray will be in LA next year. Wouldnt Reddon be a nice replacement?

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06-08-2006, 03:19 PM
  #150
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As far as I know Redden was offered a deal by Ottawa and not Chara, maybe they made that choice?

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