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Greatest Defenceman of All Time #14

View Poll Results: Who is the greatest defenceman of all time? #14
Scott Stevens 24 30.00%
Tim Horton 25 31.25%
King Clancy 0 0%
Al MacInnis 15 18.75%
Earl Seibert 1 1.25%
Dit Clapper 2 2.50%
Serge Savard 2 2.50%
Rod Langway 4 5.00%
Borje Salming 2 2.50%
Chris Pronger 5 6.25%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-14-2006, 06:22 PM
  #26
Nalyd Psycho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
All-around game is what matters.

The gap between the offensive games of Potvin and Howe was far greater than the gap between Langway's edge defensively over the other two.

Howe got injured often later in his career, but he still played at a high level into his late 30's. Langway was about finished at 35.
Potvin is irrelevant in the discussion. He's ranked 5th and I agree with that. (Well, IMO, Potvin and Robinson are pretty much interchangeable, but they are 5-6 so it works for me.)

As for Howe, Howe may be overall better, but he was never excellent. He was never the best. And to me, greatness in one accpect ios better than being good at everything.

That said, I think we may have to agree to disagree, unless you have anything specific to add, I've said my piece.

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Old
06-14-2006, 06:29 PM
  #27
Psycho Papa Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho
As for Howe, Howe may be overall better, but he was never excellent. He was never the best. And to me, greatness in one accpect ios better than being good at everything.
IMO Howe should have won the Norris in I think 1985 or 86. That season he had something like 85pts and was a +80 or so. IMO he was the best d-man in the NHL over a two or three year span in the mid-80's.

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Old
06-14-2006, 06:46 PM
  #28
Nalyd Psycho
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Those were the years that Coffey won, so you're probably right, Coffey never deserved the Norris IMO.

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06-14-2006, 07:32 PM
  #29
John Flyers Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho
As for Howe, Howe may be overall better, but he was never excellent. He was never the best. And to me, greatness in one accpect ios better than being good at everything.

That said, I think we may have to agree to disagree, unless you have anything specific to add, I've said my piece.
Howe was a 3 time 1st team all-star, he was more than excellent. Howe was also the leader of a Flyers team that was a helluva lot more successful than Langway's Capitals teams.

Langway's Caps teams often had 4 Hall of Famers (Langway, Stevens, Murphy and Gartner) and could never even get out of the Patrick Division during the playoffs.

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Old
06-14-2006, 07:38 PM
  #30
JWINK19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Howe was a 3 time 1st team all-star, he was more than excellent. Howe was also the leader of a Flyers team that was a helluva lot more successful than Langway's Capitals teams.

Langway's Caps teams often had 4 Hall of Famers (Langway, Stevens, Murphy and Gartner) and could never even get out of the Patrick Division during the playoffs.
To be fair, they did play the Isles, who had at least four of their own HOFers, just about every year in the playoffs.

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Old
06-14-2006, 07:41 PM
  #31
John Flyers Fan
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Originally Posted by JWINK19
To be fair, they did play the Isles, who had at least four of their own HOFers, just about every year in the playoffs.
The Flyers didn't have a single Hall of Famer, and went to the Finals twice and Conference Finals another time.

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06-14-2006, 08:31 PM
  #32
JWINK19
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
The Flyers didn't have a single Hall of Famer, and went to the Finals twice and Conference Finals another time.
Then the Flyers deserve kudos, but my point was you can't kill the Caps for not advancing with all those great players because their main opponent had just as many. Using your example, I guess the Isles underachieved.

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Old
06-14-2006, 11:20 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Howe was a 3 time 1st team all-star, he was more than excellent. Howe was also the leader of a Flyers team that was a helluva lot more successful than Langway's Capitals teams.

Langway's Caps teams often had 4 Hall of Famers (Langway, Stevens, Murphy and Gartner) and could never even get out of the Patrick Division during the playoffs.
When was the last time a team had three bonafide HHOFers in their prime on the blue line? Montreal in the mid 1970s? By the time the Caps hit their peak in the mid-to-late 1980s, the Islanders were already on the tail end. Bossy was essentially gone in 1986-87, and Trottier, Potvin and Smith were slowing down from the years of extended playoff runs.

One of the primary reasons that Washington failed is coaching. Bryan Murray may be the biggest choker coach in NHL history. Look at the teams he had in Washington, Detroit and now Ottawa. He never made it past the second round of the playoffs as a coach. Eventually, you have to look at the talent he had and realize he isn't a good coach when it counts.

I'd take Langway over Howe, personally. I think Mark Howe is the best eligible defenceman not in the HHOF, slightly ahead of J.C. Tremblay. But at his peak, Langway was unstoppable.

Is Langway the best defensive defenceman ever? No. He was the best defensive defenceman of the first half of the 1980s, but ever? I'll take Horton, Shore, Harvey, Stevens, and a few others for defensive ability.

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Old
06-15-2006, 12:04 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule
Agree with both parts
I agree as well, on both parts

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Old
06-15-2006, 12:19 AM
  #35
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Wow, what a finish. Major props to the poster who voted Horton in the final 10 minutes that eliminated a tie-breaker, and enabled the right player to be selected this time. Round #14, and we had 80 friggin' votes. Impressive.

Meanwhile, a thumbs down to the five buffoons who voted for Pronger ahead of the great King Clancy. Go study the game's history, then come back and vote.

Now we just need a major vote shift from Horton to Clancy.

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Old
06-15-2006, 03:11 AM
  #36
Nalyd Psycho
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Oh, and for the recored, I have decided to change my add to the poll vote to Mark Howe (Was Brian Leetch.)

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Old
06-15-2006, 11:00 AM
  #37
John Flyers Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWINK19
Then the Flyers deserve kudos, but my point was you can't kill the Caps for not advancing with all those great players because their main opponent had just as many. Using your example, I guess the Isles underachieved.
The Isles won 4 Cups during the early 80's, they didn't underacehive at all. The Isles stars aged and were near the end during the mid-late 80's when the Caps should have been at their peak.

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Old
06-15-2006, 10:55 PM
  #38
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right down to the wire.

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