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Could Patrik Elias be a NY Ranger?

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Old
06-13-2006, 10:58 PM
  #51
The Amity Affliction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Your opinion and pure speculation. You can disagree with Lou's methods and strategies, but to belittle the consistent quality of the Devils team, or Elias' contribution for that matter, simply shows a lack of objectivity.

Elias, great player. I don't look at the Rangers and think he really address the shortcomings of the team however. At this point in time, and especially for the commitment the team would have to make to him, it just doesn't make any sense to make him a target foresaking so many other areas.
A lack of objectivity? Why the hell would a player that loves the city he plays in and is playing for a team that's been a consistent winner and still has a decent, but fading chance to win, ask for a contract that damn high? He knows he's not the top forward in the league, so he's not going to get that kind of money. It's a ploy to get them to either pony up BIGTIME, which is ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE with Jersey's cap situation, or to let him go.

I agree with you on your view of what he would address and how we need help in other areas. But a lack of objectivity? May look like it, but ask yourself... You're playing for the Rangers, you know you're not the top forward in the league, but you've put up some damn good numbers. You want a pay-hike, but you know the team's cap situation, and you want to stay there because you feel like the team has somewhat of a chance of winning the big one. Why ask for such A HUGE payhike? The only explanation is that he wants out. No one in the right mind would want to break something they consider "so good" apart like that over a sum of money.

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06-14-2006, 06:29 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99
Do you not understand simple logic? The Devils are not the team they used to be, they are most DEFINITELY on the slide.

- 9th 100 point season in 10 years, like I said, put the past away and start focusing on the present and the future. That doesn't matter anymore. They're not the team they used to be.

- What does 3rd in goals against in the east matter? That's a moot point. You could point out all of these tiny statistics, you still can't avoid the fact that they're not as good as they used to be. They don't have the leader to get them over the hump, they were a one-trick pony last year with the Gomez-Gionta-Elias line, and once the useless Rangers were eliminated, the Devils were sitting ducks.

- Martin isn't all that great, Hale if you ask me is a better defender.

- Gionta is overrated, I'd love to see what he could do without Gomez because if New Jersey keeps it up, both Elias AND Gomez will be gone. Poor cap management and the lack of a leader will do that team in eventually.

- Bergfors and Zajac are good prospects, Tallackson has skills, and is inconsistent, and Greene is marginal. He may have had a great year this past season, but I still don't see him as an NHL player one day. They still lack a franchise goaltender behind Marty, and a defender that's even a facsimile of a top 2 pairing defenseman.

- Like you said, signed for 5 years, in his prime for another two? While I love Marty Brodeur, I don't think he's proven that he was the bi-product of playing behind such a great system and Scott Stevens. He sure as hell hasn't proven it in the playoffs. This team is only going to get worse, because Elias is now seeking 8 million, which is a farce if you ask me, but it's his way of trying to get out of Jersey. If Elias leaves, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gomez leave, because they'll have trouble keeping him as an RFA. Then what's Gionta left with? We'll see how good he is then.




Quote:
- 9th 100 point season in 10 years, like I said, put the past away and start focusing on the present and the future. That doesn't matter anymore. They're not the team they used to be.
1998-99 Atlantic 82 47 24 11 0 105 round 1 Exit
1999-00 Atlantic 82 45 24 8 5 103 Won Championship
2000-01 Atlantic 82 48 19 12 3 111 Lost in Finals
2001-02 Atlantic 82 41 28 9 4 95 Lost in round 1
2002-03 Atlantic 82 46 20 10 6 108 Won Championship
2003-04 Atlantic 82 43 25 12 2 100 Lost in round 1
2005-06 Atlantic 82 46 27 0 5 101 Lost in Round 2

If there is a drop off the record doesn't indicate it. Showing prior years is simply for comparsion purposes.


Quote:
- What does 3rd in goals against in the east matter? That's a moot point. You could point out all of these tiny statistics, you still can't avoid the fact that they're not as good as they used to be.
Loosing Niedermayer and Stevens was suppose to "expose" Brodeur this season and our defense was supposed to suffer tremendously....It didn't happen. That was the point.


Quote:
they were a one-trick pony last year with the Gomez-Gionta-Elias line, and once the useless Rangers were eliminated, the Devils were sitting ducks.
Unfortunately the Gomez-Gionta-Elias line was a line for about 4 weeks this season....Check your facts. And during there run of 15 games they never played together.

Quote:
- Martin isn't all that great, Hale if you ask me is a better defender.
Seriously, this is just pure ignorence.....Martin plays about 22 Minutes a game. Hale played about 9 minutes a game when he wasn't scratched or in the Minors. Martin was one of the few Defensemen on the Team that stayed a + nearly the entire season. Martin had 38 points without any first line powerplay time. Martin was without a doubt the best Defender in New Jersey from start to end of this season.


Quote:
They still lack a franchise goaltender behind Marty, and a defender that's even a facsimile of a top 2 pairing defenseman
This maybe the funniest thing I've ever read.....An organization with a Martin Brodeur needs another franchise goalie waiting in the wings or backing up Brodeur? Pure Madness.

And without a top pairing they still managed to be 3rd in the East in Goals against hmmm, go figure. I'll take White, Rafalski, Martin, Matvichuk and Hale over just about any Defense in East excluding Ottawa.


Quote:
This team is only going to get worse, because Elias is now seeking 8 million, which is a farce if you ask me, but it's his way of trying to get out of Jersey. If Elias leaves, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gomez leave, because they'll have trouble keeping him as an RFA.


Elias is looking for 8 Million? Where did you get that? Keeping Reading the Larry Brooks, it has served you well as I can see by incredible analysis of the New Jersey Devils. Elias hasn't spoken about contracts in over a Month.

If Elias leaves a restricted an RFA(Scott Gomez) is going to leave? That makes sense in your world? You don't "have trouble keeping" an RFA that CAN'T leave that is the "Restricted" part of the RFA. What are you talking about?


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Old
06-14-2006, 07:28 AM
  #53
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I saw a number of Hartford games. Dawes can flat out play. The kid is built like a fire hydrant. Perhaps I saw different games but the kid DOES PLAY IN TRAFFIC! HE WILL BE A TOP SIX FORWARD IN THE LEAGUE.Both Dawes and Prucha will be top six forwards because each knows how to finish. The key will be to surround each with complimentary type forwards. For example, the first line of Jagr , Nylander and Prucha will be just fine. The second line may be more problematic. Dawes, Sykora, if signed, need a strong center. IMO, Immonen should get the first chance. I like what I saw of him as well. Good passer, good vision , very responsible defensively, and the mvp of Hartford. This line has a chance to flourish and accelerate the rebuild. Further, the line can succeed in the new NHL. I disagree with those posters who believe we will be too small on left wing.

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06-14-2006, 07:44 AM
  #54
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Dawes definatly has a shot at making the Rangers next year. he's not perfect, but those 35 goals didn't just score themselves. Dawes will do whatever it takes to score his goals, including play in traffic. Everytime I watched him play, I thought "he'll be a NHL player". BUT, he's not the most flashy, visable player. he just knows how to score goals, and I'm fine with that.

and if prucha is on the 3rd line, that's a travesty. I understand he needs to work on his endurance and play more minutes, but unless that 3rd line is actually scoring line 2b, then it just doesn't work very well and he's not going to be as useful as he'd be with some scorers on his line.

keeping him on a third line that's mostly a checking line, like last year, is just plain misusing prucha

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06-14-2006, 07:47 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
I saw a number of Hartford games. Dawes can flat out play. The kid is built like a fire hydrant. Perhaps I saw different games but the kid DOES PLAY IN TRAFFIC! HE WILL BE A TOP SIX FORWARD IN THE LEAGUE.Both Dawes and Prucha will be top six forwards because each knows how to finish. The key will be to surround each with complimentary type forwards. For example, the first line of Jagr , Nylander and Prucha will be just fine. The second line may be more problematic. Dawes, Sykora, if signed, need a strong center. IMO, Immonen should get the first chance. I like what I saw of him as well. Good passer, good vision , very responsible defensively, and the mvp of Hartford. This line has a chance to flourish and accelerate the rebuild. Further, the line can succeed in the new NHL. I disagree with those posters who believe we will be too small on left wing.
I would be more comfortable with Dawes starting on the 3rd line for 2 reasons. One is it keeps Straka and Prucha as your top two left wings and the other is it will give Immonen (if he is the 2nd line center) more of a veteran presence on his wings. I don't know if you can really put two rookies on the second line.

And to address some of the other debate, we aren't saying or guarenteeing that Dawes makes the team. We want to ensure that if he does earn a spot he gets it, and is not pushed out by an underperforming veteran.

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06-14-2006, 08:33 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya
I would be more comfortable with Dawes starting on the 3rd line for 2 reasons. One is it keeps Straka and Prucha as your top two left wings and the other is it will give Immonen (if he is the 2nd line center) more of a veteran presence on his wings. I don't know if you can really put two rookies on the second line.

And to address some of the other debate, we aren't saying or guarenteeing that Dawes makes the team. We want to ensure that if he does earn a spot he gets it, and is not pushed out by an underperforming veteran.
Based upon their performances at Hartford, both Dawes and Immonen deserve a chance next year. Anything short of a legitimate chance derails the rebuild. Further, Staal, Baranka, and perhaps Pock also deserve such a chance.These players will be the foundation,IMO, of our future

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06-14-2006, 08:57 AM
  #57
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i don't think that it'd "derail" the rebuild if they weren't on the team out of camp, but they definatly need to be given a shot in the coming season.

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06-14-2006, 09:30 AM
  #58
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[QUOTE=Levitate]i don't think that it'd "derail" the rebuild if they weren't on the Agreed. The positions must be earned.Nevertheless, their positions should not be given to ufa's signed in the offseason. If such is the case, the rebuild will be derailed. All things equal, I err on the side of the kids instead of ufa's, both on offense and defense.We'll see if Maloney's prophecy of getting younger is really true.

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06-14-2006, 12:40 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Canadude*
Yeah I think I saw every single game he played this season. He's a great kid with great hands and tons of guts but hardly a workhorse. You really need to get objective about things. Besides he is going to be 24 not 20. How much bigger is this kid going to get?
Wow, you really don't have any idea what you're talking about.

You saw every game but left without a clue, I guess.

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06-14-2006, 01:51 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
i don't think that it'd "derail" the rebuild if they weren't on the Agreed. The positions must be earned.Nevertheless, their positions should not be given to ufa's signed in the offseason. If such is the case, the rebuild will be derailed. All things equal, I err on the side of the kids instead of ufa's, both on offense and defense.We'll see if Maloney's prophecy of getting younger is really true.
so...the spots must be earned, but by earned you mean the rangers should go into the season with gaping holes in their lineup and be completely relying on rookies to earn that spot?

hey, I don't want the guys to be pidgeonholed because of FA signings, but I really don't like the idea of going into the season with some big holes in the lineup.

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06-14-2006, 02:09 PM
  #61
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Lev: Goal-Henke/Weekes.
Defense-Kaspar, Malik,Toots,ufa,and combination of Staal, Baranka Pock.
Top LINE-Jagr, Nylander, Prucha
Second line-Dawes, Immonen, Sykora or another ufa.
Third LIne- Hollweg, Betts, WARD.
Fouth Line-Moore, Helimen,Orts
Granted, the second line may be an issue. However, we become younger, develop more of a core, and save our money for an important free agent when the team matures further. Rebuttal, please.

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06-14-2006, 02:47 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
Goal-Henke/Weekes.
Defense-Kaspar, Malik,Toots,ufa,and combination of Staal, Baranka Pock.
Top LINE-Jagr, Nylander, Prucha
Second line-Dawes, Immonen, Sykora or another ufa.
Third LIne- Hollweg, Betts, WARD.
Fouth Line-Moore, Helimen,Orts
Granted, the second line may be an issue. However, we become younger, develop more of a core, and save our money for an important free agent when the team matures further. Rebuttal, please.
For the most part, my thoughts exactly. Only things that I see differently is Straka being definetly resigned. Given that, I think that the lines would (should) look like this:
Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Immonen-Sykora/UFA
Moore/Dawes-Helminen-Ward
Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer

UFA-Malik
Kasper-Tyutin
Staal-Pock (Baranka can overtake either)

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06-14-2006, 02:59 PM
  #63
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T.B.: Since you sem to agree with my reasoning, the ufa defenseman I want, at a reasonable salary, is McKee of Buffalo. Although I love Redden, I do not think we should chase either him or Chara at this point. I still believe in the type "B' ufa instead of the type"A" ufa. Thoughts?

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06-14-2006, 03:06 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
T.B.: Since you sem to agree with my reasoning, the ufa defenseman I want, at a reasonable salary, is McKee of Buffalo. Although I love Redden, I do not think we should chase either him or Chara at this point. I still believe in the type "B' ufa instead of the type"A" ufa. Thoughts?
agreed this is why id like one of Skrastins, Kubina, Mitchell, resign strudwick for the 7th spot.

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06-14-2006, 03:22 PM
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If Chara and Redden are out of the equation, Jovo makes the most sense. Him and Malik were quite a good pairing at one point. Malik can cover up for Jovo's mistakes.
To me, Chara and Redden are the obvious targets, though not at $8m. I would take either at $6-6.5m or so, but not $8m. Either would fill our biggest need, which is a top-pairing defenseman. Not only for next year, but for another 5 years to come. While I like McKee, he is not that type of defenseman. I would not mind McKee at all as he will fill a need by being willing and able to clear the crease. However, to me, he is a borderline #4 defenseman. Anyone that will sign him for $3m or so will be paying him to be something that he is not. And that is something that the Rangers have been guilty of over the past decade.

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06-14-2006, 05:23 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV
Loosing Niedermayer and Stevens was suppose to "expose" Brodeur this season and our defense was supposed to suffer tremendously....It didn't happen. That was the point.

Unfortunately the Gomez-Gionta-Elias line was a line for about 4 weeks this season....Check your facts. And during there run of 15 games they never played together.

Seriously, this is just pure ignorence.....Martin plays about 22 Minutes a game. Hale played about 9 minutes a game when he wasn't scratched or in the Minors. Martin was one of the few Defensemen on the Team that stayed a + nearly the entire season. Martin had 38 points without any first line powerplay time. Martin was without a doubt the best Defender in New Jersey from start to end of this season.

This maybe the funniest thing I've ever read.....An organization with a Martin Brodeur needs another franchise goalie waiting in the wings or backing up Brodeur? Pure Madness.

And without a top pairing they still managed to be 3rd in the East in Goals against hmmm, go figure. I'll take White, Rafalski, Martin, Matvichuk and Hale over just about any Defense in East excluding Ottawa.

Elias is looking for 8 Million? Where did you get that? Keeping Reading the Larry Brooks, it has served you well as I can see by incredible analysis of the New Jersey Devils. Elias hasn't spoken about contracts in over a Month.

If Elias leaves a restricted an RFA(Scott Gomez) is going to leave? That makes sense in your world? You don't "have trouble keeping" an RFA that CAN'T leave that is the "Restricted" part of the RFA. What are you talking about?
- Those are regular season numbers... have they won a cup since Stevens went down in 04? Nope. A good regular season means nothing unless... A. You've come up from the cellar, or B. You won the cup. New Jersey did neither, so it really doesn't matter. They're not feared like they used to be. They don't have the defense they used to have. Martin Brodeur is beatable now, as seen in this year's playoffs. A 22 year old rookie TOOK HIM TO SCHOOL. This team is most definitely on the downslide after losing like that. They don't have the farm system depth to call up another player that will turn the team around, their franchise player, Brodeur, is finally exposed.

- Losing Niedermayer and Stevens DID expose Brodeur. What do you call the first half of this past season? What do you call their playoff exit? It's not like he Hartford Wolfpack were a challenge for the Devils in the first round, I never expected them to be. I think someone needs to practice what they preach and check their own facts.

- So first, they played together for 4 weeks, then they never played together. Check yourself, and pay attention to what you're writing so you don't cross yourself up like just did there. It's either they played together or they didn't play together, not one then the other.

- I'm sorry, from what I've seen from Martin, he looked out of place at times, and made some bad decisions. I do watch the Devils, even though they are boring, it's still hockey. The Wild I think are the only team I couldn't stomach watching.

- ANY organization needs a franchise goaltender, especially when they have one that's declining, and getting older each and every day. That's why you guys are ranked 22nd in organization depth.

- I was talking about the defense in your system, if you bothered to actually read what I said, and I mentioned the fact that you don't have one prospect on defense that can be considered a future top-4 guy as of right now. 3rd in goals against in the east, what does that amount to if you didn't win a cup? The fact that you said you don't have a top pairing shows how ignorant you really are.

- I'll keep reading Mark Everson while I'm at it, and a host of other beat writers around the league. It wasn't just Brooks that reported it, do your homework.

- So you're telling me he can't get traded because his new contract gives him too much? Or he wins in arbitration and gets a lucrative deal that puts Jersey in a bad situation with the cap? HAHA, wow, I thought you a bit more knowledgable than that. Economics, it's elementary at this point, and you still don't seem to understand that. He could demand a trade on his own if he wanted to. Wow, someone needs to start eating wheaties before posting on here.

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06-14-2006, 05:53 PM
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I'm sure the Devils/Rangers bickering is serious and important to some, but it is kind of out of place in the middle of June. And maybe it's just me, but arguing over what constitutes success in the league is petty.

Levitate: It is certainly an issue, you can't have gapping holes if guys fail to make the team. But there aren't many solutions other than trading away the vet and singing a vet to a try out contract. Both are loaded with problems and unlikely. First, trading a guy like Rucinsky is tough. It is bad form to sign a UFA and trade him almost immediately. It rubs pending UFAs the wrong way and isn't really cool if indeed he does have the million dollar handshake in the works. Second, I doubt Rucinsky will sign a tryout deal, much like the one that Perrault signed with Nas this past season. I guess the final solution is to go out and trade for someone, but only a band-aid will be had without us spending too many assets. But this is how I would approach the issue.

Prucha-Nylander-Jagr
Straka-Immonen-Sykora
Dawes-Betts-Ward
HMO

Hossa, Orr, marginal UFA in the stands

Basically, we can spread out the youth and surround them with steady guys and vets. And hell, if Hossa can crack the lineup I'm sure that Dawes won't look to out of place on the 3rd line. If Orr can play 5 minutes without being exposed can't Dawes work up to 10 minutes by December and be better than 'mistake free'. Hossa is around if something goes wrong, again not ideal but hardly a disaster.

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06-14-2006, 06:19 PM
  #68
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Beating A Dead Horse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya
I'm sure the Devils/Rangers bickering is serious and important to some, but it is kind of out of place in the middle of June. And maybe it's just me, but arguing over what constitutes success in the league is petty.

Levitate: It is certainly an issue, you can't have gapping holes if guys fail to make the team. But there aren't many solutions other than trading away the vet and singing a vet to a try out contract. Both are loaded with problems and unlikely. First, trading a guy like Rucinsky is tough. It is bad form to sign a UFA and trade him almost immediately. It rubs pending UFAs the wrong way and isn't really cool if indeed he does have the million dollar handshake in the works. Second, I doubt Rucinsky will sign a tryout deal, much like the one that Perrault signed with Nas this past season. I guess the final solution is to go out and trade for someone, but only a band-aid will be had without us spending too many assets. But this is how I would approach the issue.

Prucha-Nylander-Jagr
Straka-Immonen-Sykora
Dawes-Betts-Ward
HMO

Hossa, Orr, marginal UFA in the stands

Basically, we can spread out the youth and surround them with steady guys and vets. And hell, if Hossa can crack the lineup I'm sure that Dawes won't look to out of place on the 3rd line. If Orr can play 5 minutes without being exposed can't Dawes work up to 10 minutes by December and be better than 'mistake free'. Hossa is around if something goes wrong, again not ideal but hardly a disaster.
Why do you feel the need to rush the youth? You don't put Jarkko Immonen as a 2nd line center on this team next year. To expect that kind of offensive resposibility/production on top of a HUGE increase in ice time is RIDICULOUS.

I seriously thought we would have learned from the Manny Malhotra incident, but I guess we haven't.

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06-14-2006, 08:52 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99
Why do you feel the need to rush the youth? You don't put Jarkko Immonen as a 2nd line center on this team next year. To expect that kind of offensive resposibility/production on top of a HUGE increase in ice time is RIDICULOUS.

I seriously thought we would have learned from the Manny Malhotra incident, but I guess we haven't.
Who is being rushed? A 25 year-old who has played in a professional league in Finland for the last several years? And who has just excelled in his first professional season in the AHL? A huge increase in ice time? He played first line center in Hartford all year. How many minutes do you think that he played per night? Playing 15 minutes on the 2nd line hardly qualifies as a HUGE increase.
What signs are you looking for so that you would think someone is ready? A Spezza-like 95 or so point season in the AHL? As Immonen is not that player, it is ridiculous to wait for something like that.
And if he comes to camp and does not look ready to play 2nd line pivot, then you can slide Straka into that role.
Bringing up Malhotra is out of place. What killed Malhotra was being told that he is a center. No, wait...he's a wing. No,.....he's a center. All while playing around 2 minutes per night on the 4th line. For Immonen to play 15 or so minutes on the 2nd line and Dawes to play 10-12 on the 3rd is hardly the same thing.
A 25 year-old is long past the poing of being rushed. And a 21 year-old Dawes just netted around 40 goals. Those are not coming against 16 year-olds in juniors. What signs are you looking for?

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06-14-2006, 10:51 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Who is being rushed? A 25 year-old who has played in a professional league in Finland for the last several years? And who has just excelled in his first professional season in the AHL? A huge increase in ice time? He played first line center in Hartford all year. How many minutes do you think that he played per night? Playing 15 minutes on the 2nd line hardly qualifies as a HUGE increase.
What signs are you looking for so that you would think someone is ready? A Spezza-like 95 or so point season in the AHL? As Immonen is not that player, it is ridiculous to wait for something like that.
And if he comes to camp and does not look ready to play 2nd line pivot, then you can slide Straka into that role.
Bringing up Malhotra is out of place. What killed Malhotra was being told that he is a center. No, wait...he's a wing. No,.....he's a center. All while playing around 2 minutes per night on the 4th line. For Immonen to play 15 or so minutes on the 2nd line and Dawes to play 10-12 on the 3rd is hardly the same thing.
A 25 year-old is long past the poing of being rushed. And a 21 year-old Dawes just netted around 40 goals. Those are not coming against 16 year-olds in juniors. What signs are you looking for?
- There is a VAST difference between 20 minutes a game in the AHL in your first season and 20 minutes a game in the NHL in your first season. Provided, he might not see 20 minutes per game, but with the roles he could be taking on with that scenario, 2nd line center, 2nd power play unit, and either pk unit, this guy could be seeing 20 minutes a game possibly, or something close to it. What I'm saying is ease them in, don't put them into a prominent role like that.

- Out of place? No, it's not, because he was mis-handled. You're right, he was told to play center, then wing, then center, and given little ice time, and Muckler wasn't supportive of him at all. What you're suggesting we do with Immonen is the extreme opposite, but is still mis-handling. Give the kid 3rd line time, you can put Dawes with him if he's ready. I agree, it all depends on their camps, but inserting a rookie right into that role is ridiculous. They're not Ovechkin or Crosby or Malkin.

- 35 goals at the AHL level as a rookie, very nice. I agree, it's very impressive. I'd like to see him get a little more time though. We have good talent with a lot of potential, let's not screw anything up, is my point.

- I'm not looking for any specific sign, aside from a good training camp. I do happen to think that more time could be used to develop skills.

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06-15-2006, 01:36 AM
  #71
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Dawes might be small but he has a very stocky body. He can take a hit. He's more solid than Prucha is. I also would like to see him make the team. In choosing one d-man UFA I'd like to pick someone with size who could not only help the team physically but add something to the offense. McKee is physical enough but not much as far as helping the offense. That is why I prefer Chara (although 8 million and a no movement clause seems too much). Anyway I expect we'll find out soon. I also expect Roszival to come back--like it or not the Rangers like him. As for the 3rd and 4th lines I'd rather ratchet up the offense on the 3rd which we're not going to do if Betts is at center and also ratchet up the size on both. So I'm not sure about bringing Dominic Moore back--maybe Greg Moore in his place? I like Hollweg but to be honest I don't see the potential offense that others see from him. He hasn't done nearly enough to show he belongs on the 3rd line. He did play well and deserved the time in the playoffs. Even so the offense hasn't appeared yet.

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06-15-2006, 03:06 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones
Dawes might be small but he has a very stocky body. He can take a hit. He's more solid than Prucha is. I also would like to see him make the team. In choosing one d-man UFA I'd like to pick someone with size who could not only help the team physically but add something to the offense. McKee is physical enough but not much as far as helping the offense. That is why I prefer Chara (although 8 million and a no movement clause seems too much). Anyway I expect we'll find out soon. I also expect Roszival to come back--like it or not the Rangers like him. As for the 3rd and 4th lines I'd rather ratchet up the offense on the 3rd which we're not going to do if Betts is at center and also ratchet up the size on both. So I'm not sure about bringing Dominic Moore back--maybe Greg Moore in his place? I like Hollweg but to be honest I don't see the potential offense that others see from him. He hasn't done nearly enough to show he belongs on the 3rd line. He did play well and deserved the time in the playoffs. Even so the offense hasn't appeared yet.

Dawes Halpern Langenbrunner does sound nice for the Rangers as the 3rd line.

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06-15-2006, 07:59 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99
- There is a VAST difference between 20 minutes a game in the AHL in your first season and 20 minutes a game in the NHL in your first season. Provided, he might not see 20 minutes per game, but with the roles he could be taking on with that scenario, 2nd line center, 2nd power play unit, and either pk unit, this guy could be seeing 20 minutes a game possibly, or something close to it. What I'm saying is ease them in, don't put them into a prominent role like that.
A 2nd line center would not be getting 20 minutes. If all things stay equal, the Rangers have two very good PK units already, so his presence on them would be minimal, if at all. And considering that Jagr & Co. played around 1:40 of each and every power play, his presence on the PP unit would be minimal. IF he can show in camp that he is ready, there is absolutely nothing wrong with starting him as the 2nd line pivot. But you have to give him the opportunity.
Quote:
What you're suggesting we do with Immonen is the extreme opposite, but is still mis-handling.
You seem to want to keep dancing around the same issue over and over again. NO ONE is saying to simply hand the job over to Immonen. However, if he shows in camp that he is ready to take on such duties, then he is ready. That's it. If 10 games into the season, it seems that he is not, then you can move him down a line and slide Straka into his spot. But again, you will not know unless you give him a real opportunity in camp.
Quote:
I agree, it all depends on their camps, but inserting a rookie right into that role is ridiculous.
If you agree, then what are you arguing about?
Quote:
- 35 goals at the AHL level as a rookie, very nice. I agree, it's very impressive. I'd like to see him get a little more time though. We have good talent with a lot of potential, let's not screw anything up, is my point.
If it is very impressive, then what more do you want? This is like the Immonen argument, to a lesser extent. With Dawes, we are talking about 10-12 minutes on the 3rd line. With his play last year, he has shown that he is ready for a shot. Isn't that what camp is for? Why not give him the opportunity to prove it?
Quote:
- I'm not looking for any specific sign, aside from a good training camp. I do happen to think that more time could be used to develop skills.
Then tell me what is lacking in his game that needs a further year of development in the AHL. You said what he did was impressive. You also say that he needs more time in the AHL to develop his skills further. That must mean that you find something lacking in his game. What is it? What will prevent him from skating 12 minutes per night on the 3rd line? If a slug like Hossa can do it, so too can Dawes.

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06-15-2006, 10:34 AM
  #74
The Amity Affliction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
A 2nd line center would not be getting 20 minutes. If all things stay equal, the Rangers have two very good PK units already, so his presence on them would be minimal, if at all. And considering that Jagr & Co. played around 1:40 of each and every power play, his presence on the PP unit would be minimal. IF he can show in camp that he is ready, there is absolutely nothing wrong with starting him as the 2nd line pivot. But you have to give him the opportunity.

You seem to want to keep dancing around the same issue over and over again. NO ONE is saying to simply hand the job over to Immonen. However, if he shows in camp that he is ready to take on such duties, then he is ready. That's it. If 10 games into the season, it seems that he is not, then you can move him down a line and slide Straka into his spot. But again, you will not know unless you give him a real opportunity in camp.

If you agree, then what are you arguing about?

If it is very impressive, then what more do you want? This is like the Immonen argument, to a lesser extent. With Dawes, we are talking about 10-12 minutes on the 3rd line. With his play last year, he has shown that he is ready for a shot. Isn't that what camp is for? Why not give him the opportunity to prove it?

Then tell me what is lacking in his game that needs a further year of development in the AHL. You said what he did was impressive. You also say that he needs more time in the AHL to develop his skills further. That must mean that you find something lacking in his game. What is it? What will prevent him from skating 12 minutes per night on the 3rd line? If a slug like Hossa can do it, so too can Dawes.
It's simply the experience factor. You can't just say these guys are ready, who knows if they and if they aren't. You seem to have high expectations for these kids, and who knows if they'll be able to meet them. I'm just saying don't go nuts, you seem to be riding these kids hard.

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Old
06-15-2006, 10:50 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99
No, not at 8 million. I think he understands as well as most do that the Devils are falling apart slowly but surely, and I think he wants out. I don't see him in NY as he has blatantly disrespected the Rangers in the past. During the game this year where we de-railed the Devils 9 game winstreak when Elias first came back, they were down after the first period, and Elias avoided Al Trautwig, and after Trautwig practically begged him to do a quick interview, he trashed the Rangers by saying the Devils played like crap, and giving the Rangers no credit for playing a solid period of hockey. Talk about egos, he's one that we don't need. I think he's a self-assured piece of trash who's not as good as he thinks he is. Is he a good player? Not good enough to go trashing teams like that, and not nearly good enough for 8 million a year.

Go take your baggage elsewhere, Patrik. I'd rather see him being derailed by Hollweg into his own bench.

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