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Official 2nd Line Center Thread

View Poll Results: Which one?
Plekanec: time for big minutes, big responsibility 35 18.23%
Ribeiro: give him another chance 23 11.98%
Kovalev: move him to Center and hold our noses 3 1.56%
Lang: last year of a contract, proven scorer, etc... 41 21.35%
Grabovsky: perhaps a darkhorse Calder candidate 14 7.29%
Arnott: he's worth 4-5 million for the next 4 years 47 24.48%
None or some combination of some of the above 29 15.10%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-17-2006, 11:25 PM
  #26
goalchenyuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madevilz
I think Pleks has proven in the playoffs that he'll be just fine centering the 2nd line.
Plus he's 10000000000000 times more reliable in his own zone than ribs.

I dont want Arnott.
Plekanec had only proved that he's a good 3 th liner . It's far to be the same that a second liner . Plekanec was fresh because he didn't get a lot of ice , night after night , and during the playoffs , he wasn't playing againts the checking line ...

Anyway , with all the history of the last ten seasons with a small player playing bigger , you don't seriously think that Plek would be the best second liner ??? geez !!! imagine the killing attack of the habs once Koivu will get his annual injure ; center #1 a guy that has 8 goals this season ...

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Old
06-17-2006, 11:32 PM
  #27
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
and during the playoffs , he wasn't playing againts the checking line ...
You're right: he was playing against Staal. And beating him.

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Old
06-17-2006, 11:36 PM
  #28
goalchenyuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
You're right: he was playing against Staal. And beating him.
curious ; i was thinking that it was the Canes that beat us...

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Old
06-17-2006, 11:37 PM
  #29
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
curious ; i was thinking that it was the Canes that beat us...
And, of course, if Carolina beats Montreal, it must mean that every individual battle and match-up that took place ended in Carolina's favour.

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06-17-2006, 11:43 PM
  #30
goalchenyuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
And, of course, if Carolina beats Montreal, it must mean that every individual battle and match-up that took place ended in Carolina's favour.
if you prefer , Staal got 2 g 2 a only during the 4 last games ( the Canes victories ) , so don't say that Plekanec was beating him .

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06-17-2006, 11:56 PM
  #31
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
if you prefer , Staal got 2 g 2 a only during the 4 last games ( the Canes victories ) , so don't say that Plekanec was beating him .
Can't exactly remember, but how much of that had to do with the power. Carolina fed off the PP. Montreal actually outplayed Carolina often at 5 on 5, and Plekanec, Zednik, and Perogy was the only line to sustain constant pressure in the offensive zone.

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Old
06-18-2006, 07:35 AM
  #32
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
if you prefer , Staal got 2 g 2 a only during the 4 last games ( the Canes victories ) , so don't say that Plekanec was beating him .
It seems like you're contradicting for the sake of contradicting with mindless retorts here.

As Nash13 stated, Staal was good on the PP. In even-strength, Plekanec largely kept him to the perimeter and got more scoring chances on his own against Staal.

Your original statement which spurred this discussion was that Plekanec wasn't facing any difficult opposition (paraphrasing), when in fact that was incorrect as he was facing Staal and doing a very good job against him.

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Old
06-18-2006, 07:51 AM
  #33
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I voted Lang. Why? The best option and the less risky one.

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Old
06-18-2006, 10:59 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
I've been on the Lang bandwagon ever since I read the idea.

I'm not entirely against seeing Plekanec or Ribeiro in the spot, though, we had a playoff team with those guys last year, despite all the turmoil. Surely we could only get better, even with that default option in place?
That's true, I too feel even with the default option of doing with what we've got, we should still improve over last year. But I also feel a quality 2nd center could potentially put us over the top. I feel we're not that far off from contending for a top-4 place in the East, as long as Carbo is able to get consistency out of this team.

And I doubt a duo of Koivu who's questionable health wise and either Ribeiro (inconsistent) or Plekanec (unproven) can do the job. If anything, I feel Plekanec is just fine where he is on the 3rd line, he provides depth in case of injury to a top center.

I won't hide my disdain for Ribeiro, but my thinking has more to do with the fact Ribeiro does not fit here. Behind a stronger and most importantly healthier center than Koivu, he could probably thrive. But he cannot be counted on to pick up the slack when (it's no longer if) Koivu goes down, that's impossible to ignore.

As far as Lang and Arnott are concerned, they both have been known for their questionable work ethic, but if I had to choose, I'd go with Lang simply for his past connection with Kovalev and his one-year deal which will allow us to go after more interesting long term solutions the year after when both Bonk's and Lang's contracts would be up.

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Old
06-18-2006, 01:06 PM
  #35
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i say give ribs the reins out of the gates but pleks could replace him somewhere down the line and even grabovski could turn some heads and try to take ribs job.

this gives us lots of cap space to land a top defenceman(blake,Mckee). With a stronger defence and some new blood via signings and graduations (langenbrunner, grabovski) we should be fine.

Oh and huet must sign.

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06-18-2006, 02:03 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toro
i say give ribs the reins out of the gates but pleks could replace him somewhere down the line and even grabovski could turn some heads and try to take ribs job.

this gives us lots of cap space to land a top defenceman(blake,Mckee). With a stronger defence and some new blood via signings and graduations (langenbrunner, grabovski) we should be fine.

Oh and huet must sign.

Everyone is talking about Grabovsky ! Geez, Have you ever seen him play ? Have you ever seen him play in a NHL game ? Let's wait at least until the pre season games (if he's coming over here) to judge his abilities.

Right now, at this date, Ribeiro is - like him or not - the Habs' second line centre.

I hope, if no changes are made in the line up during the off season, that Carbo will play Kovalev with Koivu next year.

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Old
06-18-2006, 02:34 PM
  #37
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Some says then Lecavalier Arnott or Savard could be a good 1st line center and Koivu a 2nd but Koivu has a better Pts/game then these player!

I vote for pleky on the second line but Grabovsaki could be a good choice too.

I don't wanna spend 4-5M or more on a 55 points center. Ribs Pleky and maybe Grabovski can do it for less then 1.5M.

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Old
06-18-2006, 02:58 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489
Some says then Lecavalier Arnott or Savard could be a good 1st line center and Koivu a 2nd but Koivu has a better Pts/game then these player!
I vote for pleky on the second line but Grabovsaki could be a good choice too.

I don't wanna spend 4-5M or more on a 55 points center. Ribs Pleky and maybe Grabovski can do it for less then 1.5M.
Koivu had 62 points in 72 games last year. (0.861 points per game)
He has 460 points in 569 games in his career (0.808 points per game)

Savard had 97 points in 82 games last year. (1.183 points per game)
He has 401 points in 503 games in his career. (0.797 points per game)

Lecavalier had 75 points in 80 games last year. (0.937 points per game)
He has 402 points in 547 games in his career. (0.735 points per game)

Arnott had 76 points in 81 games last year. (0.938 points per game)
He has 644 points in 824 games in his career. (0.783 points per game)

All 3 players had a better PTS/game last year. The only thing Koivu has more is in a career but that doesn't matter because you don't pay a player for what he did early on inhis career.You pay for what he did the last couple years and what you thin he will do. Also, Lecavaliers best years are ahead of him.

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Old
06-18-2006, 03:04 PM
  #39
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Arnott and Savard played for a new contract with good player. I don't think Koivu play with a Kovalchuk or a Hossa. He played with Micheal Ryder a big part of the year and Higgins at the end.

Lecavalier has the ice time of a 1st center but the coverage of a 2nd.

Arnott score 30 goal and 60 points 2 time in 14th years with some good team. It's not really impressive.

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Old
06-18-2006, 03:07 PM
  #40
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I don't think Pleks is ready for the 2nd line spot. I'd like the Habs to deal for Lang and if Pleks continues progress offensively, we let Lang walk in a year and give the spot to Pleks. Personally I'd also like Arnott, but IMO the financial commitment would be too high and for too many years.

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Old
06-18-2006, 07:08 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frolov_kovalev
Ribeiro Sucks.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!


How can some of you even suggest having him around?

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06-18-2006, 07:17 PM
  #42
Mike8
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Originally Posted by Adam91
EXACTLY!!!!!!!


How can some of you even suggest having him around?
It's not inconceivable to look at it this way:

- Lang doesn't bring the tenacious, up-and-down, skating brand of hockey that Montreal seems to want to play, and would not add the physical/intense dimension the team should have among its scoring lines. He's older and not a piece of the puzzle; merely a stop-gap.

- Arnott will be overpaid for too many years, and he is not a solution to Montreal's problems. He is not a core player, yet he will more than likely receive core-player cash. As such, I pass.

- Plekanec is a wonderful player, but there is no need to catapult him into a second-line role. Keep Ribeiro in the second-line role, even if he's over his head in it, and play Plekanec more important minutes in a lower-pressure role (third line C, at least in how the media views it), and let him flourish at his own pace


Passing on Arnott & Lang, keeping Ribeiro at a cheap-ish salary, could enable the team to seek a core piece of the puzzle elsewhere. Second line LW has been problematic for awhile. First line RW isn't all that cozy with Ryder's sub-par season (he would look fine in other roles on the team, but the forward group could use another borderline star a la Koivu & Kovalev).

You may not agree with this perspective, but there's sufficient logic here to think some may go for it.

Personally, I think second line LW is a more pressing hole to fill than second line C.

I think Edmonton's (poor) center depth & Carolina's (poor) defensive depth, and both teams' surprisingly good goaltending in this year's playoffs proves that a good core--regardless of positions--along with role players stepping up, and a mix of youth and vets can bring you deep into the playoffs.

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06-18-2006, 07:24 PM
  #43
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Grabovsky RRRrrrAAaaaRRRrr

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Old
06-18-2006, 07:34 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
It's not inconceivable to look at it this way:

- Lang doesn't bring the tenacious, up-and-down, skating brand of hockey that Montreal seems to want to play, and would not add the physical/intense dimension the team should have among its scoring lines. He's older and not a piece of the puzzle; merely a stop-gap.

- Arnott will be overpaid for too many years, and he is not a solution to Montreal's problems. He is not a core player, yet he will more than likely receive core-player cash. As such, I pass.

- Plekanec is a wonderful player, but there is no need to catapult him into a second-line role. Keep Ribeiro in the second-line role, even if he's over his head in it, and play Plekanec more important minutes in a lower-pressure role (third line C, at least in how the media views it), and let him flourish at his own pace


Passing on Arnott & Lang, keeping Ribeiro at a cheap-ish salary, could enable the team to seek a core piece of the puzzle elsewhere. Second line LW has been problematic for awhile. First line RW isn't all that cozy with Ryder's sub-par season (he would look fine in other roles on the team, but the forward group could use another borderline star a la Koivu & Kovalev).

You may not agree with this perspective, but there's sufficient logic here to think some may go for it.

Personally, I think second line LW is a more pressing hole to fill than second line C.

I think Edmonton's (poor) center depth & Carolina's (poor) defensive depth, and both teams' surprisingly good goaltending in this year's playoffs proves that a good core--regardless of positions--along with role players stepping up, and a mix of youth and vets can bring you deep into the playoffs.
Disagree about Carolina's Dmen. On the PK they shut down the cross-ice passing lanes inside the dots a lot better than the Habs. They also clear thw zone a lot better.

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Old
06-18-2006, 07:44 PM
  #45
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For the love of god, please not ribeiro.

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06-18-2006, 08:55 PM
  #46
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
Disagree about Carolina's Dmen. On the PK they shut down the cross-ice passing lanes inside the dots a lot better than the Habs. They also clear thw zone a lot better.
Well, obviously Carolina's D is playing better than Montreal's has any time in recent history. But they're (undeniably, IMO) playing above themselves.

Any individual on that blueline has some god awful breakdowns, and you can't pinpoint any one of them that would be rightly considered a top-pairing defenseman. Heck, I don't think any of them have even been considered a legitimate top three.

The point is this is a real journeyman defensive group. Not too expensive, not too hard to assemble, but they've played above themselves when it's counted. And that's what matters.

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Old
06-18-2006, 09:06 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Well, obviously Carolina's D is playing better than Montreal's has any time in recent history. But they're (undeniably, IMO) playing above themselves.

Any individual on that blueline has some god awful breakdowns, and you can't pinpoint any one of them that would be rightly considered a top-pairing defenseman. Heck, I don't think any of them have even been considered a legitimate top three.

The point is this is a real journeyman defensive group. Not too expensive, not too hard to assemble, but they've played above themselves when it's counted. And that's what matters.
Man for man, I can't argue, but I think they illustrate either coaching or 6 guys buying into a system that works for them. I wouldn't call it 'over their head' but I'm just quibbling over definition. Goes to show how pro scouting is everything right now. They identify Commodore as a guy who might fit, and look at him now. Still, if they upgrade just a bit on D, they can be pretty scary.

I agree with your take on the C situation. I think a forward should be added. Someone who brings an element that isn't there. If a winger comes on board and #71 is kept, I won't get too excited. It comes down to signability too.




markov, I think that if you check out even strength numbers, Plekanec did a heeluva job on Staal. What Staal produced on the pp can't be attributed to the job Pleks/Zed and Perez did. Doesn't mean he's a beter player,but he shut him down in the series and turned a lot of heads imo.

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06-18-2006, 09:42 PM
  #48
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If you look at Carolinas lineup you cannot deny the depth of this team upfront, its quite impressive. I think its a big factor into carolinas D looking good.

About Grabovski, played in an NHL game or not, he was the best belarus player at the WC, against NHLers + not a kid, its a 22 years old, so yes could surprise a lot of people. 2nd center? I don't think so, 2nd LW more likely.

Unlike others I would be VERY(scale 10/10) surprised that we dont get someone to play the 1st or 2nd center role this summer from a trade or a UFA.

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Old
06-18-2006, 11:09 PM
  #49
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Based on his play in the last 2 months... I really dont want to loose Mikey Ribeiro.

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06-19-2006, 08:02 AM
  #50
goalchenyuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
It seems like you're contradicting for the sake of contradicting with mindless retorts here.

As Nash13 stated, Staal was good on the PP. In even-strength, Plekanec largely kept him to the perimeter and got more scoring chances on his own against Staal.

Your original statement which spurred this discussion was that Plekanec wasn't facing any difficult opposition (paraphrasing), when in fact that was incorrect as he was facing Staal and doing a very good job against him.
Exactly what i am saying ; he played well againts an offensive line , because he's a good defensive player . He got more chances to scores than the opposite player ? how many goals did he get ? not that much , no ?

What i wanted to say , is that playing againts an offensive line is something , and if you are good defensively , you can controle them . BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO THE SAME AGAINTS A DEFENSIVE LINE PLAYERS , who are used to stop the players .

Gainey or Carboneau were the best defensive players you could have dream for ; that didn't mean that they would have been big scorers in a second line ...

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