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Luongo gone by July 1?

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Old
06-19-2006, 03:49 PM
  #101
doublejack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I honestly know nothing about Howard, so I'm going to take on faith that he as good as you guys say. I still think the deal will be something along the lines of Howard, Kronwall, and a pick. I think that would be reasonably fair, if the Cats don't think they can sign Luongo.
Here are some of Howard's acheivements

# 2003-04 Set NCAA record for goal-against average (1.19)
# 2003-04 Set NCAA record for save percentage (.956)

Here's a good column about Howard's stellar performance at the Frozen Four against Boston College. It's called How-ard, How-ard

Additionally, Howard had numerous long shutout streaks (his best was over 197 minutes), set a school record for shutouts, and had an ungodly streak of something like 10 or 12 games were he did not allow an even strenght goal. He doesn't have a national championship like Turco, but Howard's college career is right up there among the best ever. In March Howard showed he is capable of playing at that level in the AHL (check out his stats for that month).

Again though, we'll have to agree to disagree about Kronwall as part of this package. If you were Keenan and I was Holland and you came at with me with that proposal I'd either start laughing hysterically or hang up on you.

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06-19-2006, 03:52 PM
  #102
hockydude5000
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But to think an unproven pospect like Howard would get you Luongo is also ludicrous, you would need to add one of your stars to make the deal work. You've been saying that Detroit's prospects are undervalued, but I think they have been overvalued. To get Luongo, you need a Datsyuk or a Zetterburg coming Florida's way, someone of equal value, not someone with the potential to be equal value. Datsyuk + Howard + Hudler for Luongo + another prospect is more like it, prospects are used as sweeteners, not the base.

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06-19-2006, 03:55 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 8snake
Lastly, since when is a legit 5'11, great skating D-man considered smallish? Injury plauged? Yes. Smallish? In what way? He's an offensive defenseman.
Since when is 5'11 d-man smallish?? Ummm how about when the average size of d-men is ~6'2?

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06-19-2006, 04:01 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockydude5000
But to think an unproven pospect like Howard would get you Luongo is also ludicrous, you would need to add one of your stars to make the deal work. You've been saying that Detroit's prospects are undervalued, but I think they have been overvalued. To get Luongo, you need a Datsyuk or a Zetterburg coming Florida's way, someone of equal value, not someone with the potential to be equal value. Datsyuk + Howard + Hudler for Luongo + another prospect is more like it, prospects are used as sweeteners, not the base.
As other posters have said, this board will let out a collective gasp when they see what Luongo really goes for (if he's traded). I'm almost positive it wont be for a star player, top prospect and picks (or two prospects). It will be something less than that.

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06-19-2006, 04:01 PM
  #105
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221
once again, i think the teams have the right pieces to pull something off, but at the same time are in the same boat. if defense is florida's biggest concern, then the wings can't be much help. with the almost inevitable loss of fischer, kronwall is our ONLY high caliber young defenseman. the next young defenseman we've got is lebda, but there's a BIG gap between the two. it's just not worth it to detroit to trade kronwall, even if it brings back luongo.

howard is a no brainer if we get luongo back. i wouldn't have issues in that.

any proposal i'd make would start with howard and hudler, as i've said, asking for kronwall would entail top tier/high 2nd tier d prospect coming back our way with luongo.

bottom line, there's no plausible way that we as fans are going to agree on anything but to disagree.

this thread has done nothing but to see wings prospacts undervalued for the most part, though i appreciate those who admit they don't know all that much about our prospects. i'd say this is a good time to just say forget it and should something come of this during the draft or anytime during the season we can all continue this discussion. these two teams are too similar with our needs and gluts too few dmen, too many centermen, i'd say it's time to move on.

If you really think that FLA would need to add in a top tier prospect to Luongo to make a deal for Kronwall and Howard fair (in terms of value - not teams needs) than you might want to give some thought as to who it is that has unrealistic perceptions of Wing prospects. Hudler has little to no market value, Kronwall's is questionable (because of is size, injury history, and late development). It is not a question of other teams not knowing Wing prospects - you're simply not being very realistic.

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06-19-2006, 04:01 PM
  #106
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I think that in this new NHL, we will see two types of trades when we are talking about blockbusters !

The first one is a "Depth-package" like the Bruins got in the Thornton deal (even if I think they could have gotten much better), where you get a couple of assets who could help your team depth: Sturm is a nice and fast skater who can score some goals and Brad Stuart is certainly one of those gems on the blueline !

Then you'll have the "Superstar vs Superstar" like the Heatley deal ! The Thrashers also got a defenseman like deVries which could easily fetch a Jiri Hudler-type of player...

So we give Roberto for another superstar, but the "deVries asset" in this trade would have to be sweater... Kronwall, Hudler, Howard seems fair to me I would even think about the Wings first pick if we give them one of our depth defenseman (Alexei Semenov ?)... Luongo is just entering his prime, the guy will be awesome !

I'm looking forward to what he will fetch !

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06-19-2006, 04:02 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockydude5000
But to think an unproven pospect like Howard would get you Luongo is also ludicrous, you would need to add one of your stars to make the deal work. You've been saying that Detroit's prospects are undervalued, but I think they have been overvalued. To get Luongo, you need a Datsyuk or a Zetterburg coming Florida's way, someone of equal value, not someone with the potential to be equal value. Datsyuk + Howard + Hudler for Luongo + another prospect is more like it, prospects are used as sweeteners, not the base.

To be fair, Zetterberg's market value probably exceeds Luongo's be a fair margin. I do think Luongo has a greater impact on his team. But, Zetterberg's bang-for-buck factor is greater than virtually any player out there.

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06-19-2006, 04:04 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havlat
I think that in this new NHL, we will see two types of trades when we are talking about blockbusters !

The first one is a "Depth-package" like the Bruins got in the Thornton deal (even if I think they could have gotten much better), where you get a couple of assets who could help your team depth: Sturm is a nice and fast skater who can score some goals and Brad Stuart is certainly one of those gems on the blueline !

Then you'll have the "Superstar vs Superstar" like the Heatley deal ! The Thrashers also got a defenseman like deVries which could easily fetch a Jiri Hudler-type of player...

So we give Roberto for another superstar, but the "deVries asset" in this trade would have to be sweater... Kronwall, Hudler, Howard seems fair to me I would even think about the Wings first pick if we give them one of our depth defenseman (Alexei Semenov ?)... Luongo is just entering his prime, the guy will be awesome !

I'm looking forward to what he will fetch !
So, Hudler, Howards, Kronwall and a 1st for Luongo and Semenov?

That sounds fair to me. I think the Wings would probably go for it, if it were available.

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06-19-2006, 04:05 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Pepper
Since when is 5'11 d-man smallish?? Ummm how about when the average size of d-men is ~6'2?
Then he's slightly undersized, not smallish. When I think smallish I think of Rafalski or Liles, not Kronwall.

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06-19-2006, 04:07 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havlat
Then you'll have the "Superstar vs Superstar" like the Heatley deal ! The Thrashers also got a defenseman like deVries which could easily fetch a Jiri Hudler-type of player...
I'm not sure you understood the point of DeVries in the deal. Since the CBA had been signed, reporters had been speculating on how quickly Smolinski and DeVries were going to be bought out.
DeVries was a #5 defenseman making over $2M and we needed cap room. He had negative value to Ottawa.

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06-19-2006, 04:09 PM
  #111
doublejack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
So, Hudler, Howards, Kronwall and a 1st for Luongo and Semenov?

That sounds fair to me. I think the Wings would probably go for it, if it were available.


These keep getting better. That's a ludicrous proposal.

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06-19-2006, 04:13 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack


These keep getting better. That's a ludicrous proposal.
agreed i would be pissed if Holland did that....

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06-19-2006, 04:16 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack


These keep getting better. That's a ludicrous proposal.
Milbury and others dont understand a healthy Kronwall can compare with any d-man 25 and under in this league.

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06-19-2006, 04:21 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by nikolai19
Its going to come down between LA and Detroit.

If Detroit offers Howard and Datsuyk, they'll get him.

If LA offers Garon, the 11th, Frolov, they'll get him plus someone else.

Either way the team that gets him has to lock him up long term.
no way Detroit offers that much to Florida, and LA gets absolutely ***-***** in that deal no goalie is worth that much....

i could live with Howard and Hudler or maybe Kronwall and Hudler but both of those deals make me just want to wait until Luongo hits the FA market, definently worth a year of waiting IMO and get either Biron or Gerber and ride them for one year, if they do well then forget about Luongo completely, if not throw the big bucks @ Luongo...

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06-19-2006, 04:22 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
If you really think that FLA would need to add in a top tier prospect to Luongo to make a deal for Kronwall and Howard fair (in terms of value - not teams needs) than you might want to give some thought as to who it is that has unrealistic perceptions of Wing prospects. Hudler has little to no market value, Kronwall's is questionable (because of is size, injury history, and late development). It is not a question of other teams not knowing Wing prospects - you're simply not being very realistic.
To be fair, Kronwall's development isn't slow. He locked up a roster spot late in '03, but he caught a rut in the Staple's Center ice and didn't get healthy until the season was over. Arguments could be made that he was the best defenseman in the world during the lockout (dominated the AHL and was the WHC's best defenseman). Knee blown out in preseason (during a game he wasn't supposed to play). Shaky recovery, but he played GREAT in the two Olympic games he played, was decent in the playoffs (better than the team on average), and again was the best defenseman and MVP of the WHC.

Two fluke injuries unrelated to his size ( FYI he's bigger than Konstantinov was) and the lockout has kept him out of Detroit's top 4 the past three seasons.

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06-19-2006, 04:30 PM
  #116
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I'm Usually staying away from proposing habs players but.

Could something like

Carey Price, Perezhogin, Aebisher and a 2nd be something Florida would take a look at?

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06-19-2006, 04:43 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Marcel the great!
ok... how bout Ryder, Perezhogin, Abeisher, 1st in 06 and 07, or maybe in 07 only if he signes with us for a long term deal or soemthing?
So, you'd give Ryder, Perez, Abby and our 1st this year, and IF he signs long term, another 1st? Kinda stripping the team of youth for a possible one year rental isn't it? Too risky for my taste.

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06-19-2006, 04:44 PM
  #118
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I still think the deal will be something along the lines of Howard, Kronwall, and a pick. I think that would be reasonably fair, if the Cats don't think they can sign Luongo.
If you were Keenan and I was Holland and you came at with me with that proposal I'd either start laughing hysterically or hang up on you.
Would you laugh hysterically if Florida got Phillips, Emery and a pick for Luongo from Ottawa?

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06-19-2006, 04:45 PM
  #119
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack


These keep getting better. That's a ludicrous proposal.
Ludicrous from Florida's perspective. They trade one of the best players in the league and don't get a single proven commodity in return.

If all other things were equal (i.e., contracts) Florida would not begin to consider this. But, they may be forced into a deal like this in the end.

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06-19-2006, 04:49 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Ludicrous from Florida's perspective. They trade one of the best players in the league and don't get a single proven commodity in return.

If all other things were equal (i.e., contracts) Florida would not begin to consider this. But, they may be forced into a deal like this in the end.
You are wrong wrong WRONG. You're demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge about Detroit's players and prospects.

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06-19-2006, 04:50 PM
  #121
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1datsyuk3
no way Detroit offers that much to Florida, and LA gets absolutely ***-***** in that deal no goalie is worth that much....

i could live with Howard and Hudler or maybe Kronwall and Hudler but both of those deals make me just want to wait until Luongo hits the FA market, definently worth a year of waiting IMO and get either Biron or Gerber and ride them for one year, if they do well then forget about Luongo completely, if not throw the big bucks @ Luongo...
Don't necessarily agree with your logic - as long as you are willing to count on Luongo actually making it to UFA. I heard similar arguements made about players like Turco and Nabakov.

Anyway, all this is just showing that the Wings are probably not a good trade candidate. They don't have the young Dmen that Florida will want, and guys like Hudler aren't going to be of any interest to the Cats. There may not be a deal there to be made.

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06-19-2006, 04:50 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary
Would you laugh hysterically if Florida got Phillips, Emery and a pick for Luongo from Ottawa?
No, because Phillips is older and IMO Kronwall has a much higher ceiling than Phillips. Even if you want to say Emery and Howard are a wash (IMO they arent but I'll go along), Kronwall at 27-28 > Phillips. Ottawa doesnt give up nearly as much in that trade Detroit would give up.

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06-19-2006, 04:52 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary
Would you laugh hysterically if Florida got Phillips, Emery and a pick for Luongo from Ottawa?
No, because Kronwall >>>>> Phillips. The deal you propose is much more reasonable.

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06-19-2006, 04:53 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
No, because Phillips is older and IMO Kronwall has a much higher ceiling than Phillips. Even if you want to say Emery and Howard are a wash (IMO they arent but I'll go along), Kronwall at 27-28 > Phllips. Ottawa doesnt give up nearly as much in that trade Detroit would give up.

I dont think Florida would go for the Phillips proposal at all, but why are Emery and Howard not a wash? I think at worst its a wash, and as of right now I would take Emery over Howard based on AHL and NHL performance thus far in their careers.

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06-19-2006, 04:53 PM
  #125
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
You are wrong wrong WRONG. You're demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge about Detroit's players and prospects.
I'm rubber, your're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.

Could you possibly be anymore elementary-school in your responses?

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