HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Stewart or Summers....

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-19-2006, 07:02 PM
  #1
turnbuckle*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,724
vCash: 500
Stewart or Summers....

I just spent the majority of the afternoon having beverages with an NHL scout, and I followed that up with a phone call to another one who I highly respect - they're both heading to Vancouver tomorrow.

Heard lots of interesting stuff, including that Fischer is the biggest "idiot" of the draft. Mr. Fischer spent the majority of his combine interviews espousing his greatness and putting down his coaching - and I mean "really" putting down his coaching. This was not an isolated thing - Fischer managed to turn off pretty much every team he interviewed, and the scouts had a running joke going after awhile. One scout told me that he ran into a colleague partway through the interviews, and he said "Did you interview the idiot yet?" He asked who it was, and the fellow scout replied 'Oh, you'll know when you talk to him."

The next time he met scouts in the hallway, others began talking about whether others had interviewed "the idiot" - he was perhaps
the most obnoxious interview they had ever had. It became a running joke.

Anyway - Berglund got a big thumbs down from these scouts - they're not sold on him being a first rounder, let alone a top 20 pick. Not smart with the puck; has a tendency to try to go end-to-end with the puck. Not always willing to put in the effort.

Stewart will be a great pick at 16 if he's there, but these scouts doubt that he'll last that long. BTW - both said they would take Stewart over Frolik.

I asked both of them who their top defenceman is after Johnson -
- both of them said Summers and Sanguinetti. I asked them if Summers was a top 20 pick, and they both concurred.

As for Little - they both have him in their top 10.

Okposo wasn't as popular as i thought he would be - in fact one of the scouts has Okposo rated after Little, Tlusty, and Sheppard.
"He's an enigma," said one scout. "I saw him play four times - he didn't seem to have a defined role. He didn't score, he didn't playmake...and had one shot on goal. I wasn't very impressed."

I asked the same scout about Kessel - he had him ranked 7th. "I don't like him," said the scout. "I see selfishness. I could see him maybe being on his third team before he's a star; that type of player." The scout concurred that Kessel was one of the players at the under-18s that didn't sign the sweater for the disabled equipment trainer that Jack Johnson asked his teammates to sign. "Johnson got him to sign it in a hurry."

Grabner was considered a top 20 pick by both scouts, they like his skill.

Neither scout has Giroux rated in the top 20, but they like him in the first round. Vishnevsky and Williams are not listed in either scouts' top 30.

Foligno versus White - they like both players, but Foligno is considered to be better. "He's a better skater than White and smarter" said one scout.

These are the scouts' top 17 picks:

Johnson
Staal
Toews
Backstrom
Mueller
Kessel
Brassard
Little
Tlusty
Sheppard
Okposo
Sanguinetti
Stewart
Frolik
Summers
Bernier
Grabner


The more I hear about Summers; the more I think he'll be a good pick. Both think he'll be picked in the top 20.

McBain got mixed reviews, as did Maxwell. Clutterbuck isn't looked at as a first-round pick - a solid character but lacking the skills to be a first rounder.

Anisimov and Alexandrov are the most coveted Russians with both scouts - Vasyunov too much of a hot and cold player to be considered for the first round.

Burki and Geoffrion are not first rounders according to these scouts, nor is Emmerton, but they all should go in the 2nd round.

Lewis - 3rd rounder

Nigel Williams - neither are fans. Said one scout "He doesn't have a clue how to play defence. Great athlete, but that's it."

Wishart - they see him going in the first round, but both have problems with his first step. "He's slow footed," said one, which surprised me. Neither is impressed by his aggressiveness, or lack thereof.

Vishnevsky - "some shifts he looks like a world beater, so much skating talent, but he's really poor in his own zone; he just bails out. Too much of a risk to take in the first round"
Mathias - A solid second rounder after his Under 18 performance, not necessarily before. "I like him - he competes," said a scout. "He's non-stop."

For what it's worth - Summers, Grabner, Stewart - one of those three would be good picks at 16th based on what these fellows are saying.

turnbuckle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2006, 07:14 PM
  #2
Marchy79
Registered User
 
Marchy79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Barrie
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Call me crazy... but if Little were available @ 16... and Edmonton were to offer a deal to trade down and we wind up with Vishnevsky... I'd be happy. I like the 'he's ballsy' statement. and to be quite frank... many of the offensive stars that were selected in the previous years were considered defensively prone, and turned out allright... It's alwasy been said that you can teach d... Offense is the one that can't be taught. That's what made Gretzky... well Gretzky, and on the other hand, Gainey... Gainey.

Marchy79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2006, 07:15 PM
  #3
Prospector
Registered User
 
Prospector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
Wow thank you very much for the report!

I really like what i hear about Summers. He is fast, responsible defensively and he has a good offensive instinct!

Prospector is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2006, 07:23 PM
  #4
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle
I just spent the majority of the afternoon having beverages with an NHL scout, and I followed that up with a phone call to another one who I highly respect - they're both heading to Vancouver tomorrow.

Heard lots of interesting stuff, including that Fischer is the biggest "idiot" of the draft. Mr. Fischer spent the majority of his combine interviews espousing his greatness and putting down his coaching - and I mean "really" putting down his coaching. This was not an isolated thing - Fischer managed to turn off pretty much every team he interviewed, and the scouts had a running joke going after awhile. One scout told me that he ran into a colleague partway through the interviews, and he said "Did you interview the idiot yet?" He asked who it was, and the fellow scout replied 'Oh, you'll know when you talk to him."

The next time he met scouts in the hallway, others began talking about whether others had interviewed "the idiot" - he was perhaps
the most obnoxious interview they had ever had. It became a running joke.

Anyway - Berglund got a big thumbs down from these scouts - they're not sold on him being a first rounder, let alone a top 20 pick. Not smart with the puck; has a tendency to try to go end-to-end with the puck. Not always willing to put in the effort.

Stewart will be a great pick at 16 if he's there, but these scouts doubt that he'll last that long. BTW - both said they would take Stewart over Frolik.

I asked both of them who their top defenceman is after Johnson -
- both of them said Summers and Sanguinetti. I asked them if Summers was a top 20 pick, and they both concurred.

As for Little - they both have him in their top 10.

Okposo wasn't as popular as i thought he would be - in fact one of the scouts has Okposo rated after Little, Tlusty, and Sheppard.
"He's an enigma," said one scout. "I saw him play four times - he didn't seem to have a defined role. He didn't score, he didn't playmake...and had one shot on goal. I wasn't very impressed."

I asked the same scout about Kessel - he had him ranked 7th. "I don't like him," said the scout. "I see selfishness. I could see him maybe being on his third team before he's a star; that type of player." The scout concurred that Kessel was one of the players at the under-18s that didn't sign the sweater for the disabled equipment trainer that Jack Johnson asked his teammates to sign. "Johnson got him to sign it in a hurry."

Grabner was considered a top 20 pick by both scouts, they like his skill.

Neither scout has Giroux rated in the top 20, but they like him in the first round. Vishnevsky and Williams are not listed in either scouts' top 30.

Foligno versus White - they like both players, but Foligno is considered to be better. "He's a better skater than White and smarter" said one scout.

These are the scouts' top 17 picks:

Johnson
Staal
Toews
Backstrom
Mueller
Kessel
Brassard
Little
Tlusty
Sheppard
Okposo
Sanguinetti
Stewart
Frolik
Summers
Bernier
Grabner


The more I hear about Summers; the more I think he'll be a good pick. Both think he'll be picked in the top 20.

McBain got mixed reviews, as did Maxwell. Clutterbuck isn't looked at as a first-round pick - a solid character but lacking the skills to be a first rounder.

Anisimov and Alexandrov are the most coveted Russians with both scouts - Vasyunov too much of a hot and cold player to be considered for the first round.

Burki and Geoffrion are not first rounders according to these scouts, nor is Emmerton, but they all should go in the 2nd round.

Lewis - 3rd rounder

Nigel Williams - neither are fans. Said one scout "He doesn't have a clue how to play defence. Great athlete, but that's it."

Wishart - they see him going in the first round, but both have problems with his first step. "He's slow footed," said one, which surprised me. Neither is impressed by his aggressiveness, or lack thereof.

Vishnevsky - "some shifts he looks like a world beater, so much skating talent, but he's really poor in his own zone; he just bails out. Too much of a risk to take in the first round"
Mathias - A solid second rounder after his Under 18 performance, not necessarily before. "I like him - he competes," said a scout. "He's non-stop."

For what it's worth - Summers, Grabner, Stewart - one of those three would be good picks at 16th based on what these fellows are saying.
Stewart sounds incredible.

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2006, 08:12 PM
  #5
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Ours!
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,519
vCash: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost # 1
Call me crazy... but if Little were available @ 16... and Edmonton were to offer a deal to trade down and we wind up with Vishnevsky... I'd be happy.
Are you being serious or am I misreading you? If Little is available at 16, you would trade down with Edmonton? why? Edmonton's first pick will likely be 45th overall (Niinimaki comp. pick) since they traded their first and 2nd at the deadline...Little is one of the premium offensive centers in the draft! I'd throw a freaking party if we somehow land him.

And turnbuckle wrote Vishnevsky BAILS out in his own zone, not that he's ballsy. He's also a D, where being able to play defence is kind of important, ya know.

Marc the Habs Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2006, 09:01 PM
  #6
Alouette_19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 416
vCash: 500
I'm surprise to see the rank of Sanguinetti

Alouette_19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2006, 09:47 PM
  #7
FisherKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 1,267
vCash: 500
Well, I seem to recall one scout saying Summers glides faster than some players in the NHL can skate. Last guy I remember seeing who fit that description was a guy named Paul Coffey. Summers certainly seems like an interesting choice, although apparently a defence first guy with little interest in offence...from what I read. I wouldn't be upset if the Habs took him at 16. Great skating is a real asset for dmen in the new NHL.

FisherKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2006, 09:47 PM
  #8
jcpenny
Registered User
 
jcpenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,878
vCash: 500
Whats Stewart skill level? Is he just a grinder with size or does he have skills?

jcpenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2006, 10:17 PM
  #9
Souffle
A soupçon of nutmeg
 
Souffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Le Creuset
Country: France
Posts: 3,484
vCash: 500
Thanks for the info Mr. buckle.

Souffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2006, 11:11 PM
  #10
turnbuckle*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcpenny
Whats Stewart skill level? Is he just a grinder with size or does he have skills?
Stewart is skilled - he has a lot of upside. Two years ago he was 270 pounds and playing football. He only got seriously into hockey two years ago, and he's progressed in leaps and bounds. The scout I was with this afternoon said: "He's 240 pounds, and he can motor. When he comes down that wing....defencemen have their hands full. I like him."

Not likely to be available with the 16th pick; will likely go ahead of Sanguinetti and perhaps even Okposo and Sheppard if a team likes him as much as the scout I just quoted.

Summers looks like the best bet unless Frolik drops to 16. I get a feeling that he's the one from the upper echelon that's going to drop if any of them do.

turnbuckle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 03:44 AM
  #11
Rather Gingerly 1*
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,832
vCash: 500
Turnbuckle that was a great post.

Rather Gingerly 1* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 07:49 AM
  #12
Artie
Registered User
 
Artie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal, Que
Country: Italy
Posts: 4,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Anyway - Berglund got a big thumbs down from these scouts - they're not sold on him being a first rounder, let alone a top 20 pick. Not smart with the puck; has a tendency to try to go end-to-end with the puck. Not always willing to put in the effort.
There goes my 1st choice. Oh well better to find out now than later



Quote:
Okposo wasn't as popular as i thought he would be - in fact one of the scouts has Okposo rated after Little, Tlusty, and Sheppard.
"He's an enigma," said one scout. "I saw him play four times - he didn't seem to have a defined role. He didn't score, he didn't playmake...and had one shot on goal. I wasn't very impressed."
Personally I think Okposo has been a little over-hyped and most have Minnesota taking him in the top 10 simply because he's a local boy. Now having said that, Okposo not having had a defined role on his team is not his fault. The coaching staff has to be able to to that. Whether Okposo can execute the role is a different matter.


Quote:
Grabner was considered a top 20 pick by both scouts, they like his skill.
I just keep thinking he's not going to make it to 16. But if he does I'd be okay with the pick. I think moreso than Summers.


Quote:
Lewis - 3rd rounder
I like what I've read about Lewis. Do you think it would be a stretch to take him with our 2nd round pick?

Artie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 08:50 AM
  #13
Dragon
Registered User
 
Dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alouette_19
I'm surprise to see the rank of Sanguinetti
I'll be extremely happy if we get Sanguinetti

Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 09:34 AM
  #14
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,499
vCash: 500
Great insights, thanks Turnbuckle!!!!

Sounds like I can cross Fischer off the list of mysterious defensemen who I know nothing about who might jump into the 1st round picture.

And Kyle Woodlief was big on Summers too. The kid must have fabulous character to impress everybody so much when he doesn't have much in the way of size, stats, or even a defined position (F/D) to fall back on. I'm not going to be disappointed if he's our guy, based on all the glowing reviews, even if his upside is just as a heart'n'soul role player.

Glad to hear that Little is getting due regard too, since I'm a big fan. I guess his combine essentially removed any lingering hope we might have had that he'd be a candidate to somehow drop to us. Oh well.

Sanguinetti sounds like he made a positive impression at the combine too. I guess he's my Meszaros for this draft. Let's steer clear.

See what I say about Berglund all you bandwagoners!


Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 09:52 AM
  #15
Marchy79
Registered User
 
Marchy79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Barrie
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan
Are you being serious or am I misreading you? If Little is available at 16, you would trade down with Edmonton? why? Edmonton's first pick will likely be 45th overall (Niinimaki comp. pick) since they traded their first and 2nd at the deadline...Little is one of the premium offensive centers in the draft! I'd throw a freaking party if we somehow land him.

And turnbuckle wrote Vishnevsky BAILS out in his own zone, not that he's ballsy. He's also a D, where being able to play defence is kind of important, ya know.
Ohyeah... I forgot that the Oilers dont have a first rounder anymore :S

Yeah I am at least 1/2 serious when saying that.
If we watn Stewart I am all for it. Summers... No way, fuhgeddaboutit

Vishnevsky has the talent to be top end, maybe he does have to learn defence... But that's something people CAN learn. Trying to get defensive players more offensive is what usually never happens. If he's available to be had in the lower 20's... and we can get a solid player for moving down 10-12 spots... Im for it. Esp. if we can do a deal that can land us someone pretty decent

Marchy79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 10:46 AM
  #16
SuperUnknown
Registered User
 
SuperUnknown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,515
vCash: 500
Who do you see us grabbing in the 2nd round Turnbuckle?

SuperUnknown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 11:05 AM
  #17
V-2 Schneider
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 877
vCash: 500
CSB rates Summers at #47,yet the bio is as glowing as a top 15 selection.I just checked that Nick Lidstrom was drafted in the 3rd round,1989, with the 53rd pick.He was listed at 6'2 190.

The CSB report has me shaking my head.

V-2 Schneider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 11:09 AM
  #18
SuperUnknown
Registered User
 
SuperUnknown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-2 Schneider
CSB rates Summers at #47,yet the bio is as glowing as a top 15 selection.I just checked that Nick Lidstrom was drafted in the 3rd round,1989, with the 53rd pick.He was listed at 6'2 190.

The CSB report has me shaking my head.
It's the nature of scouting. Some players are seen better and other worse depending on what they show when the scouts are there.

That's why the draft is often seen as a crap shoot.

SuperUnknown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 11:11 AM
  #19
24Cups
Registered User
 
24Cups's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
Great insights, thanks Turnbuckle!!!!

And Kyle Woodlief was big on Summers too.

Yeah, but Woodlief has us picking off the board and taking Eric Gryba (ranked 66 by central scouting) with our first round pick. The kid might be worthy of a second round stretch but I don't know where Woodlief is coming from especially since he still has Sanguinetti, Grabner, and Vishnevsky on the board at 16.

Personally, I'd like to see the Habs trade up with Columbus and select Brassard with the sixth pick if he's still available. I wonder if MacLean would bite on this for Ribeiro? Columbus can get the D-man their looking for at 16. Gryba will still be available at 46 if we want him then.

24Cups is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 11:14 AM
  #20
V-2 Schneider
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 877
vCash: 500
The scouts view seems to be that Nigel Williams is another Karl Dykhuis.Blessed with size,skating and a good shot, he can't read the zone and has poor hockey sense.

V-2 Schneider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 11:49 AM
  #21
turnbuckle*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24Cups
Yeah, but Woodlief has us picking off the board and taking Eric Gryba (ranked 66 by central scouting) with our first round pick. The kid might be worthy of a second round stretch but I don't know where Woodlief is coming from especially since he still has Sanguinetti, Grabner, and Vishnevsky on the board at 16.

Personally, I'd like to see the Habs trade up with Columbus and select Brassard with the sixth pick if he's still available. I wonder if MacLean would bite on this for Ribeiro? Columbus can get the D-man their looking for at 16. Gryba will still be available at 46 if we want him then.
All I have in my notes about Lewis is that "he's not the most willing guy." The one scout I asked about Lewis was far from enthralled.

I mentioned that Woodlief had us nabbing Gryba 16th overall; believe me that got some chuckles. "That's Kyle," said one of them. Gryba will not get ANY consideration in the first round based on what these guys said, let alone 16th overall.

As for our 2nd pick, I wouldn't mind one of Mathias, Geoffrion, Zarkhov, Vasyunov, Varlamov, Swan, Fiala.....if there was some way to vastly improve McGinn's skating I'd take him in a heartbeat.

I didn't ask the scouts about very many players ranked in 50-60 range by most publications; I tried to focus on players in the 10-40 range, so I'm not 100 percent positive on who the team should take in the second round. I have a feeling some of the Russians will drop to us. Some may call me crazy, but if Varalamov drops to 56th, it's gonna be really tough to pass on him; the scouts really think he could be special, and from what I saw of him at the CHL Challenge last winter I can't disagree.

turnbuckle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 11:55 AM
  #22
StanleyCH25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro
Stewart sounds incredible.
Toshiro: Did you really need to quote the entire article just to say that Stewart sounds incredible?

StanleyCH25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 12:20 PM
  #23
Munchausen
Full Time A-hole
 
Munchausen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Stuck in traffic
Posts: 5,330
vCash: 500
Thanks turnbuckle, I like hearing about the mental constitution of prospects more than anything else. That's the one thing you learn very little on by seeing the guy play. And I'm one who firmly adheres to the theory that no matter the skills, if what's between the ears brings up red flags, pass.

Munchausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 12:25 PM
  #24
eddy
Registered User
 
eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,673
vCash: 500
Great info thanks. I would say unless a great forward that is expected to go top 10 like Brassard slips to us we cannot pass it up, if not we gotta go with a Defencemen, so if it came down to Summers or Stewart as good as Stewart sounds Id say the intelligent choice would be to go with Summers. We really need the defencive depth more than at forward.

eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2006, 12:30 PM
  #25
Talent Analyst
Registered User
 
Talent Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 100th years
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle
I just spent the majority of the afternoon having beverages with an NHL scout, and I followed that up with a phone call to another one who I highly respect - they're both heading to Vancouver tomorrow.
Thx for the Info !!


Last edited by montreal: 06-20-2006 at 05:04 PM.
Talent Analyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.