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Nashville/Pittsburgh *proposal*

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Old
11-09-2003, 05:54 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
I would wager that there are numerous people who feel the same way I do on this...



I hope that there is a way that can help out the small market teams compete in the next CBA, but that doesn't change the fact that Nashville's attendance has steadily declined over their 6 years of existence. I know that they have had a poor record over that time, but the Mighty Ducks had a poor record, and they averaged around 16,000 per game for their 1st 6 years. The Lightning also had strong numbers in their 1st 4 seasons and the Sharks have averaged around 17,000 for their entire existence(except for their 1st season where they played in San Francisco). If Nashville was a "hockeytown", the fans would be supporting the team. They simply aren't doing that, and we're only 6 years into the franchise...

i'll concede that, but a point that you wouldn't be aware of unless you LIVED In nashville(and other posters can back me up on this) is that if you aren't winning...no matter what sport, nashville fans really want nothing to do with you. before the titans "music city miracle," even they weren't as supported as you'd expect an nfl team to be. aside from diehards...vanderbilt football's attendance is horrible. the nashville sounds, the AAA affiliate of the pittsburgh pirates...you could buy a 10 dollar ticket on any night...and move down to the front row on the field undeterred. that changed...when they made the playoffs\had a good season this year. nashville(and it's not just nashville) is a fickle city. it has nothing to do with it being hockey(well, a little bit to do with it being hockey) but more to do with the fact that the predators haven't been a winning team. last year...attendance steadily increased as the predators were getting media attention for being on such a hot streak. nashvillians want to be behind a winner, and retreat into the woodwork when things get rough. i'd wager to say that attendance in vancouver would drop if they went through 5 years of missing the playoffs, because they CERTAINLY weren't THIS popular, back before they became a good team. i remember that much. i'm behind the approach nashville is taking to building their team, and i think they're building a team that will compete not for a year or two and then die off, but rather, a team that will compete year in and year out...and as long as they are, they will be supported. mark my words.

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11-09-2003, 06:00 PM
  #27
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
i'll concede that, but a point that you wouldn't be aware of unless you LIVED In nashville(and other posters can back me up on this) is that if you aren't winning...no matter what sport, nashville fans really want nothing to do with you. before the titans "music city miracle," even they weren't as supported as you'd expect an nfl team to be. aside from diehards...vanderbilt football's attendance is horrible. the nashville sounds, the AAA affiliate of the pittsburgh pirates...you could buy a 10 dollar ticket on any night...and move down to the front row on the field undeterred. that changed...when they made the playoffs\had a good season this year. nashville(and it's not just nashville) is a fickle city. it has nothing to do with it being hockey(well, a little bit to do with it being hockey) but more to do with the fact that the predators haven't been a winning team. last year...attendance steadily increased as the predators were getting media attention for being on such a hot streak. nashvillians want to be behind a winner, and retreat into the woodwork when things get rough. i'd wager to say that attendance in vancouver would drop if they went through 5 years of missing the playoffs, because they CERTAINLY weren't THIS popular, back before they became a good team. i remember that much. i'm behind the approach nashville is taking to building their team, and i think they're building a team that will compete not for a year or two and then die off, but rather, a team that will compete year in and year out...and as long as they are, they will be supported. mark my words.
Fair enough, I just don't see the Preds ever being a well supported team in Nashville. It's not the first time that has happened to a Southern team, or any team in a non-traditional hockey market for that matter.

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11-09-2003, 06:02 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
I would wager that there are numerous people who feel the same way I do on this...



I hope that there is a way that can help out the small market teams compete in the next CBA, but that doesn't change the fact that Nashville's attendance has steadily declined over their 6 years of existence. I know that they have had a poor record over that time, but the Mighty Ducks had a poor record, and they averaged around 16,000 per game for their 1st 6 years. The Lightning also had strong numbers in their 1st 4 seasons and the Sharks have averaged around 17,000 for their entire existence(except for their 1st season where they played in San Francisco). If Nashville was a "hockeytown", the fans would be supporting the team. They simply aren't doing that, and we're only 6 years into the franchise...
But what was the economic backdrop during those franchise starts? In the 3rd year did an economic bomb drop on any of those places like it has Middle Tennessee?

Quote numbers, maybe you are right. Maybe it is not a 'hockeytown' but it IS a sports town. If the team is allowed to survive via CBA the prospect base drafted during this time will bring successful sales. Ownership says they are committed to building a long term winner here. The half successful mode has never yielded a #1 pick.

It sounds as if your mind is already made up. If so, we are just going to disagree.

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11-09-2003, 06:48 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrocketman
It sounds as if your mind is already made up. If so, we are just going to disagree.
My mind isn't made up, but so far, Nashville hasn't shown anything to warrant that it is a city that can and will support an NHL franchise. Hockey isn't a popular enough sport IMO to be succesful in Nashville. Yes winning will help, but how much and when is the winning going to start? Will the owners continue to endure low ticket sales if the team doesn't turn it around?

In any case, it reminds me a lot of the Vancouver Grizzlies situation before they moved. The city was in love with the team for the first few years, but as the team continued to lose, the fans stopped coming out. The attendance wasn't horrible(I believe they averaged 13,000 fans their last season), but the market just wasn't strong enough to support a secondary pro sport. You claim that Tennessee is having an economic problem, well can the city afford to support the NFL Titans as well as an NHL team? I guess the upcoming CBA will play a big role in what happens with the weaker markets in the NHL, but I have a bad feeling that Nashville as well as some other clubs(perhaps even Calgary and/or Edmonton) could pay the ultimate price...

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Old
11-09-2003, 06:58 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
My mind isn't made up, but so far, Nashville hasn't shown anything to warrant that it is a city that can and will support an NHL franchise. Hockey isn't a popular enough sport IMO to be succesful in Nashville. Yes winning will help, but how much and when is the winning going to start? Will the owners continue to endure low ticket sales if the team doesn't turn it around?

In any case, it reminds me a lot of the Vancouver Grizzlies situation before they moved. The city was in love with the team for the first few years, but as the team continued to lose, the fans stopped coming out. The attendance wasn't horrible(I believe they averaged 13,000 fans their last season), but the market just wasn't strong enough to support a secondary pro sport. You claim that Tennessee is having an economic problem, well can the city afford to support the NFL Titans as well as an NHL team? I guess the upcoming CBA will play a big role in what happens with the weaker markets in the NHL, but I have a bad feeling that Nashville as well as some other clubs(perhaps even Calgary and/or Edmonton) could pay the ultimate price...
i don't think it was Nashville that he was referring to as suffering economic hits so much as EVERYONE suffering economically after 9-11. Leipold(our owner) has said, from the beginning, that he realized that building a team in nashville could require a commitment\patience, but that he was willing to give both. our attendance isn't great, but we have the lowest payroll in the league and one of the sweetest leases to compensate. i personally feel that our surge last year represented this team beginning to "turn the corner." i think we're one or two pieces away from being a playoff team, and with winning that close...the fans of the predators are the least worried about losing the team.

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Old
11-09-2003, 07:22 PM
  #31
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I think the difference is in an american market, teams have to win to get attendence. Hockey is NOT the national sport, and it suffers from concurrence of football, Bball or baseball.
For instance in Pittsburgh, when the team was winning cups, you didn't hear anything about the attendence. These days yes. Especially during the Steelers season.

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Old
11-10-2003, 03:49 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
I think the difference is in an american market, teams have to win to get attendence. Hockey is NOT the national sport, and it suffers from concurrence of football, Bball or baseball.
For instance in Pittsburgh, when the team was winning cups, you didn't hear anything about the attendence. These days yes. Especially during the Steelers season.
You are right on the money. Football has huge corporate support here. Why? Because almost everybody is a football fan to some degree. There are plenty of sports fans here. If they have to choose, right now they go with the winningest. The Titans have one of the highest home winning percentages in the NHL. Even though they don't often go head-to-head timewise, with the shrinking discretionary dollar (post 9-11) of the average sports fan, they do.

The Nashville Sounds minor league team had horrible attendence recently until they shifted into high gear and made it to the playoffs last year--- suddenly, they were the hot ticket again.

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Old
11-10-2003, 04:15 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starkouklos
Guys, Pittsburgh has a better attendance this year then New Jersey, New York Islanders, Carolina, and at least a couple more.

Pittsburgh likes hockey but they are FED up of loosing their stars because of money for nothing good in return.
They had a superstar team, now we have good young rookies, but that is not enough to compete.
I COMPLETELY agree. It seems not only that the team won't win, but that they simply can't compete, only because of money. And, as I'm sure you've been able to guess, I'm an Expos fan, and just losing all those stars.....real fans have a tough time talking about the team, simply because it was such a big drop, so fast. For sure it was the same thing in Pittsburg, losing Jagr, Lang, Kasparaitus, Kovalev, for nothing, really.

I feel for you guys in Pittsburg (i hope you do too for us Expos fans, there really are a lot of us, but the stadium is worse then the Igloo, and the owners have never wanted to win)

P.S: if Guerrero leaves this winter, I don't think I'll ever be able to go watch another game...

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Old
11-10-2003, 04:58 PM
  #34
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Why are Nashvillians arguing with non-Nashvillians on this? Could you have a more ignorant opponent? You cannot possibly be able to formulate a respectable opinion on the quality of fans with respect to a city until you have lived there for some period of time let alone someone who's never been to Nashville. While he's commenting on our hockey fans, why don't we get his comments on our governor or Nashvillian opinions on income tax? There's just as much information about that as there is about our viability as a hockey market, yet his comments would come accross as uninformed on those matters. Catch my drift?

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Old
11-10-2003, 05:34 PM
  #35
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I would have used the phrase 'less educated', Smokey.

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