HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)

Saku Koivu versus Brendan Morrison?

View Poll Results: Morrison or Koivu?
Brendan Morrison 33 32.35%
Saku Koivu 69 67.65%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-08-2003, 09:11 AM
  #26
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,111
vCash: 500
Okay, just watching the poll go so far. Just some facts I'd like to throw out there:

Saku Koivu makes $4,250,000.00
Brendan Morrison makes $2,450,000.00

(Both numbers are according to the NHLPA website)

Saku Koivu
Height: 5-10
Weight: 181 lbs.
Pos: C
Shoots: Left
Age: 28
Born: November 23, 1974, Turku , Finland

So far this season: 1 Game Played, No points, +1

Last 4 seasons:
2002/2003 - 82 Games Played, 21 goals, 50 assists, 71 points, +5
2001/2002 - 3 Games Played, 0 goals, 2 assists, 2 points, Even
2000/2001 - 54 Games Played, 17 goals, 30 assists, 47 points, +2
1999/2000 - 24 Games Played, 3 goals, 18 assists, 21 points, +7

Last 4 seasons - total numbers:

163 Games Played, 41 goals, 100 assists, 141 points, +13

Brendan Morrison
Height: 5-11
Weight: 185 lbs.
Pos: C
Shoots: Left
Age: 28
Born: August 15, 1975, Pitt Meadows , British Columbia

So Far This Season: 14 Games Played, 6 goals, 7 assists, 13 points, +13

Last 4 Seasons:
2002-2003 - 82 Games Played, 25 goals, 46 assists, 71 points, +18
2001-2002 - 82 Games Played, 23 goals, 44 assists, 67 points, +18
2000-2001 - 82 Games Played, 16 goals, 38 assists, 54 points, +2
1999-2000 - 56 Games Played, 7 goals, 28 assists, 35 points, +12

Last 4 Season - total numbers
302 Games Played, 71 goals, 156 assists, 227 points, +50

Mizral is offline  
Old
11-08-2003, 11:59 AM
  #27
Winston Wolf
Registered User
 
Winston Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,501
vCash: 500
Saku Koivu

Winston Wolf is offline  
Old
11-08-2003, 01:00 PM
  #28
KOMO_ROCKS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Richmond, B.C
Posts: 4,788
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to KOMO_ROCKS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
Koivu in a walk.. putting up simular statistics playing with half the talents. He's also far more skilled.

Easy lopsided victory for Saku IMO..
agreed..

KOMO_ROCKS is offline  
Old
11-08-2003, 01:13 PM
  #29
Free Torts
Registered User
 
Free Torts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,198
vCash: 883
Send a message via MSN to Free Torts
Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
Anybody that says Morrison is probably a homer.
I guess I'm a homer then. I'd rather have Morrison play 82 games than have Koivu on my team and see him play 50 or 60.

Free Torts is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 06:47 AM
  #30
gohabsgo2010
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: sign Patrick Poulin
Posts: 2,622
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to gohabsgo2010
Koivu did play all 82 games last year, and the majority of them were with Jan Bulis and Donald Audette.

If Saku had played those games alongside Bertuzzi and Naslund, he would have hit 100 points easily.

gohabsgo2010 is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 08:19 AM
  #31
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,111
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl.roberts
Koivu did play all 82 games last year, and the majority of them were with Jan Bulis and Donald Audette.

If Saku had played those games alongside Bertuzzi and Naslund, he would have hit 100 points easily.

Easily? Are you saying Saku Koivu is as good as Peter Forsberg & such? Forsberg played with Hejduk & Tanguay, two very good players as well, and managed 106 points.

Frankly, I doubt Koivu would score more than he usually does on the Canucks top line.

Mizral is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 08:23 AM
  #32
LaVal
Registered User
 
LaVal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Frankly, I doubt Koivu would score more than he usually does on the Canucks top line.
not to mention i'd doubt Naslund and Bertuzzi would do as well with Koivu on their line. each player on that line relies on each other and Koivu is not a good match.

LaVal is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 09:23 AM
  #33
MoS*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northfield, Minnesot
Posts: 5,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
Huh? Are you suggesting Morrison is a more popular player than Koivu?
i said "morrison is more popular to the fanbase" because he is a hometown vancouver kid and the fans simply love him

MoS* is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 09:26 AM
  #34
MoS*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northfield, Minnesot
Posts: 5,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl.roberts
Koivu did play all 82 games last year, and the majority of them were with Jan Bulis and Donald Audette.

If Saku had played those games alongside Bertuzzi and Naslund, he would have hit 100 points easily.
wtf? naslund only had 104 last year and bertuzzi didn't even get 100

MoS* is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 09:38 AM
  #35
Zodiac
Registered User
 
Zodiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,732
vCash: 500
Morrison.

I think Koivu has a bit more talent, not much more, but he is too injury prone and his health is always a concern.

I'll take Morrison on my team.

Zodiac is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 09:42 AM
  #36
gohabsgo2010
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: sign Patrick Poulin
Posts: 2,622
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to gohabsgo2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoS
wtf? naslund only had 104 last year and bertuzzi didn't even get 100
Koivu is one of the most talented players in the game. Sure, I'm a Habs fan so I may be a little biased, but every time Saku steps on the ice, there is a scoring chance.

Morrison and Koivu both played 82 games last year, and both of them put up 71 points. Okay, so maybe #11 wouldn't hit 100 "easily", but it would be a good bet. There is a magnificent increase in skill level from Jan Bulis and Donald Audette to Todd Bertuzzi and Markus Naslund.

Koivu was able to net Bulis 16 goals last year, and we're talking about a guy in Bulis who has a brutal pair of hands, and just scored his first of the year last night. Koivu also set Richard Zednik up for a career year. Zednik scored 31 goals last year, and about 26 of them came from Koivu. This year, Zednik has been without Koivu up until Friday, and has just two goals. Koivu makes every player around him even better. Christ, if he can improve Antii Laaksonen's numbers on the world stage, imagine how he could help Bert and Naslund.

Koivu would probably hit Adam Oates type assist numbers, in the 65-75 range, along with 20-25 goals. Anywhere from 90-100 points would be almost a lock, assuming Koivu was healthy and so were his linemates.

I like Morrison too, but he doesn't have anything, skill wise, on Koivu.

gohabsgo2010 is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 09:47 AM
  #37
Bring_Bak_Damphousse
Classless User
 
Bring_Bak_Damphousse's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,261
vCash: 500
I voted for Koivu

If the 2 players roles were reversed it`s impossible to say that Koivu would score 100pts playing with Bert and Naslund. Maybe that line would fall apart without Morrison....Maybe Morrison would have a career year playing with Audette who knows. The way things are now Koivu is the more talented player on a less talented team. End of story.

Bring_Bak_Damphousse is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 01:25 PM
  #38
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,111
vCash: 500
jl.roberts,

Peter Schaefer scored 16 goals with linemates Matt Cooke and Brendan Morrison as his centre 3 seasons ago. Last season, he played with Marian Hossa and Todd White, and scored 4 goals.

Just because a player plays with more talent around, doesn't mean he puts up more points.

As for Koivu's talents, I would say he's more talented than Morrison offensivly, but Koivu is no more effective than Morrison is.

Mizral is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 02:31 PM
  #39
Frightened Inmate #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl.roberts
Koivu is one of the most talented players in the game. Sure, I'm a Habs fan so I may be a little biased, but every time Saku steps on the ice, there is a scoring chance.

Morrison and Koivu both played 82 games last year, and both of them put up 71 points. Okay, so maybe #11 wouldn't hit 100 "easily", but it would be a good bet. There is a magnificent increase in skill level from Jan Bulis and Donald Audette to Todd Bertuzzi and Markus Naslund.

Koivu was able to net Bulis 16 goals last year, and we're talking about a guy in Bulis who has a brutal pair of hands, and just scored his first of the year last night. Koivu also set Richard Zednik up for a career year. Zednik scored 31 goals last year, and about 26 of them came from Koivu. This year, Zednik has been without Koivu up until Friday, and has just two goals. Koivu makes every player around him even better. Christ, if he can improve Antii Laaksonen's numbers on the world stage, imagine how he could help Bert and Naslund.

Koivu would probably hit Adam Oates type assist numbers, in the 65-75 range, along with 20-25 goals. Anywhere from 90-100 points would be almost a lock, assuming Koivu was healthy and so were his linemates.

I like Morrison too, but he doesn't have anything, skill wise, on Koivu.
Koivu would never reach 100 points. He might get 70 on a line with Bertuzzi and Naslund but this isn't the 80s and 100 point players are very very rare.

Frightened Inmate #2 is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 03:09 PM
  #40
MoS*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northfield, Minnesot
Posts: 5,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl.roberts
Koivu is one of the most talented players in the game. Sure, I'm a Habs fan so I may be a little biased, but every time Saku steps on the ice, there is a scoring chance.

Morrison and Koivu both played 82 games last year, and both of them put up 71 points. Okay, so maybe #11 wouldn't hit 100 "easily", but it would be a good bet. There is a magnificent increase in skill level from Jan Bulis and Donald Audette to Todd Bertuzzi and Markus Naslund.

Koivu was able to net Bulis 16 goals last year, and we're talking about a guy in Bulis who has a brutal pair of hands, and just scored his first of the year last night. Koivu also set Richard Zednik up for a career year. Zednik scored 31 goals last year, and about 26 of them came from Koivu. This year, Zednik has been without Koivu up until Friday, and has just two goals. Koivu makes every player around him even better. Christ, if he can improve Antii Laaksonen's numbers on the world stage, imagine how he could help Bert and Naslund.

Koivu would probably hit Adam Oates type assist numbers, in the 65-75 range, along with 20-25 goals. Anywhere from 90-100 points would be almost a lock, assuming Koivu was healthy and so were his linemates.

I like Morrison too, but he doesn't have anything, skill wise, on Koivu.
no one is doubting koivu's talent but i don't think he would get over 85 points playing with 2 of the league's top 5 forwards who only manage, to themselves, around 100 points

MoS* is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 03:32 PM
  #41
Roke
Registered User
 
Roke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,885
vCash: 500
Another good thing about Koivu, he can and is willing to get other the opponent's skin. See last night against the Sabres... that sparked the team. I'd take Koivu however, it depends on the teams needs. With Bertuzzi and Naslund, I think I'd take Morrison because he is slightly better defensively, but it would still be a tough decision.

I voted for Koivu because of his leadership qualities, although on another team Morrison could become a leader. It's hard comparing two players on different teams with different types of linemates though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Edison
Koivu would never reach 100 points. He might get 70 on a line with Bertuzzi and Naslund but this isn't the 80s and 100 point players are very very rare.
Koivu got 70 points last year playing with the likes of Audette and Bulis, those are not offensive juggaurnauts. His point totals would depend on what kind of role he played with Naslund and Bertuzzi.

Roke is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 03:39 PM
  #42
Burke's Evil Spirit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 15,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
Of course we can all be biased towards our favorite team once in a while, and that can influence your opinions on things. And that is fine. But it's when you make a decision SO blindly biased that you are a homer. If in a Bertuzzi/Thornton debate you chose Bert, I think that's fine. They are very close players. But in a Koivu/Morrison debate, one which is not even remotely close, those who choose Morrison have to be nothing but homers.
I don't see a huge gap between a 71-point center and yet another 71-point center. Add to the fact that Morrison is far ahead of Koivu defensively and has not missed a game for any reason since 1999-2000, and you have Morrison in a walk.

The "Morrison has better linemates"-argument is stupid and wrong.

Burke's Evil Spirit is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 03:51 PM
  #43
uzziman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Abby
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,572
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to uzziman
I went with Morrison because, he has yet to miss a game as a Canuck. The same can't be said for Saku. I'd say Saku is easily the more talented player, but what good is talent when you are sitting in the press box

uzziman is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 05:53 PM
  #44
Jeffrey
Registered User
 
Jeffrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,541
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Jeffrey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
I don't see a huge gap between a 71-point center and yet another 71-point center. Add to the fact that Morrison is far ahead of Koivu defensively and has not missed a game for any reason since 1999-2000, and you have Morrison in a walk.

The "Morrison has better linemates"-argument is stupid and wrong.
Koivu is really good defensively ... I dunno but some guys here think that he's only offensive .. nothing more .. but he's definately our most intense player on the ice .. he's one of our best face-off player too ...
+ YES, he's good defensively .. he's not a john madden but he use is speed and intensity to brake up play and disturb his opponents , he's also a fearless player! I remeber (2002 playoff against bruins) when he crunched everybody on ice + being our best forward ...
he also wake up our team last game with big hits and very nice pass that created almost all our scoring chances ... he's my favorite player for a long time now ..
but i must admit that morrison is underrated around the board .. but he's not better than koivu ... sorry

Jeffrey is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 07:19 PM
  #45
Quagmier
Registered User
 
Quagmier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoS
wtf? naslund only had 104 last year and bertuzzi didn't even get 100
With another world class talent on that line (not saying Koivu) im fairly sure they would all surpass those numbers.

Quagmier is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 07:39 PM
  #46
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,111
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryoptix
but i must admit that morrison is underrated around the board .. but he's not better than koivu ... sorry
Koivu is alright defensivly, but he's not exactly a Selke canidate. Morrison could win a Selke one of these days.

Please note, I did not say, 'Which is the more talented player'. It's a 'Who would you rather have?' question.

Mizral is offline  
Old
11-09-2003, 11:20 PM
  #47
evman150*
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Pedersen
I guess I'm a homer then. I'd rather have Morrison play 82 games than have Koivu on my team and see him play 50 or 60.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
The question is: Whom do you think is the better player?
Who cares how many games they play? Koivu is the better player. That is the answer to the question. Period.

People say just because they both scored 71 points they are equal. Then some people say the linemates argument is stupid. It isn't. It is very valid. Morrison puts up 71 points playing with two of the top 5 players in the world. Koivu puts up 71 points playing with stiffs like Donald Audette and Mariusz Czerkawski. There IS a difference.

evman150* is offline  
Old
11-10-2003, 10:28 AM
  #48
ChemiseBleuHonnete
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,377
vCash: 500
I don't even want to add anything. Anyone talking against Koivu does not watch him play, plain and simple.

ChemiseBleuHonnete is offline  
Old
11-10-2003, 11:19 AM
  #49
didjuicythat
@m_desroches
 
didjuicythat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,251
vCash: 500
Haven't we had enough of this old comparision? I mean, Mizral, if you are so sure about the fact that Morrison is much better than Saku, then why are you asking so frequently? I think it's hard to tell who's better, as both play a tremendous role on their teams. Obviously, people in Montreal know much better than anyone why Koivu is so useful to the Canadiens. Same for people cheering for Vancouver; following them all year long allows them to realize how important Morrison is for the Canucks. Both are decent in their own end... perhaps Morrison gets the nod on this aspect. Both are considered as guys who can score, but most importantly pass, and set up plays. I'd say Koivu is better, and has proved he can carry a team on his shoulders, both on (by his incredible playmaking abilities) and off the ice (by his leadership).

As for the speculation about Saku playing with Naslund and Bertuzzi, I'd say he would increase dramatically his stats. Who can explain me how come he would be less dominant playing with these two superstars instead of Jan Bulis and Donald Audette? I mean, come on, you have the right to like what Morrison brings to your team, but Saku would have put up much better numbers than his 71pts season if only he had had quality linemates such as Naslund and Bertuzzi. And still, he managed to pile up as many points as Morrison playing on a brutal team. You can say whatever you want about stats not always telling the whole story, but to me, that's very meaningful. As simple as that.

Not pretending Saku's better. I'm only pointing out the obvious.

didjuicythat is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:06 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.