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Get rid of the instigator....SIGN

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Old
11-07-2003, 03:47 PM
  #1
SedinFan*
 
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Get rid of the instigator....SIGN

http://************************/11072003/petition.html

Sign the petition, stick the link up around other hockey sites. The NHL needs to know.

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Old
11-07-2003, 03:55 PM
  #2
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Cuz we all know the NHL cares what the fans think, and petition.com is always a credible source to petition with.

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11-07-2003, 04:08 PM
  #3
King of Kelvington
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Where's the petition to get ride of the goons?

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Old
11-07-2003, 04:31 PM
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Big McLargehuge
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^ This is why fans don't run the league.

that and money

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Old
11-07-2003, 04:45 PM
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Im all in favour of getting rid of that rule

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Old
11-07-2003, 04:58 PM
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Good Job with the Petition. more than happy to sign.

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Old
11-07-2003, 05:33 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendel Clark Jr.
Where's the petition to get ride of the goons?
I prefer goons to ridiculous stickwork without worry about retribution. I am not a big supporter of fighting in the game, but I want to keep it so slimey little pukes don't run amok.

Case in point. Fischer vs Hartnell. Hartnell injures Fischer and a year later he had to account for his actions. Two men that handled their issues like men.

No...I prefer the Glenn Anderson and Tomas Sandstrom stick work to that ...but then again I am not sure you would be old enough to see them play.

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Old
11-07-2003, 06:02 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnergizerScotty
http://************************/11072003/petition.html

Sign the petition, stick the link up around other hockey sites. The NHL needs to know.
The problem with that site is that it gives people the opportunity to add comments when they sign, which always lead to 10% of the comments being completely moronic. That way no one will ever have to take a petition from that site seriously.

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11-07-2003, 06:38 PM
  #9
King of Kelvington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
I prefer goons to ridiculous stickwork without worry about retribution. I am not a big supporter of fighting in the game, but I want to keep it so slimey little pukes don't run amok.

Case in point. Fischer vs Hartnell. Hartnell injures Fischer and a year later he had to account for his actions. Two men that handled their issues like men.

No...I prefer the Glenn Anderson and Tomas Sandstrom stick work to that ...but then again I am not sure you would be old enough to see them play.
Cop-out....seriously fighting dosent solve the problem your speaking of, thats another issue...think outside the box would ya!

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Old
11-07-2003, 06:54 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendel Clark Jr.
Cop-out....seriously fighting dosent solve the problem your speaking of, thats another issue...think outside the box would ya!

Yes it does. It use to be if a team went high with their sticks or hit dirty that player would have to pay for his actions and there was more respect because of this. Now players don't have to pay, hell if a player goes after the guy for given a cheap shot now he gets more time in the box then the guy who gave the cheap shot and hurt or tried to hurt a player, and thats where the games has gone wrong.

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11-07-2003, 07:30 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthFlyer82
Yes it does. It use to be if a team went high with their sticks or hit dirty that player would have to pay for his actions and there was more respect because of this. Now players don't have to pay, hell if a player goes after the guy for given a cheap shot now he gets more time in the box then the guy who gave the cheap shot and hurt or tried to hurt a player, and thats where the games has gone wrong.

Totally agree with you. Monkeyboy's argument has no substance.

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:36 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthFlyer82
Yes it does. It use to be if a team went high with their sticks or hit dirty that player would have to pay for his actions and there was more respect because of this. Now players don't have to pay, hell if a player goes after the guy for given a cheap shot now he gets more time in the box then the guy who gave the cheap shot and hurt or tried to hurt a player, and thats where the games has gone wrong.
The guy giving the cheap shot is the real problem...not being charged with a penalty after beatting the snot outta him...back in the day guys used to carve each others eyes out with sticks, ask any of the old NHL'ers, they'll tell ya...the problem's not the instigator rule (which i beleive is hypocritical to begin with), and removing it wont solve a damn thing!!!! You wanna see less crap ala Doug Weight, talk with Colin Campbell, not Darren Langdon, a pugilist isnt gonna make anyone respect anything. If Weight was suspended 20 games, i would bet the farm he would never do it again.

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:38 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
Totally agree with you. Monkeyboy's argument has no substance.
...monkey boy??? :moon:

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Old
11-07-2003, 09:00 PM
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I didn't bother to click on the link...but I will give my opinion anyway.

I agree that the Instigator rule right now is not appropriate. That being said, it should not be completely abolished.

Instead of an instigator getting 2+5+10, he should simply get 2+5 while his opponent gets 5 for Fighting. That way, all instigating a fight does, is give the other team a minor powerplay.

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Old
11-07-2003, 10:43 PM
  #15
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I don't think it will change anything, but I hate this rule.

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Old
11-08-2003, 12:13 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendel Clark Jr.
Cop-out....seriously fighting dosent solve the problem your speaking of, thats another issue...think outside the box would ya!
The enforcers and rugged players like the Name in your avatar Provide accountability. it isnt a cop out the game was better pre instigator.

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Old
11-08-2003, 01:07 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by DieHard
That 2 mins extra minor IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM! It's not the 10min misconduct that bothers coaches, it's the extra 2 mins which gives opponents PP.

So remove the 2min minor and give 5+10 to the instigator, that would solve a lot of problems and would force gutless pukes like Varada, Holmström etc. to face the music for their cheap actions.
I have talked to guys in the BCHL and WHL, and they all say the opposite. Guys would rather sit 7 minutes than 15 or 17.

The whole problem with the instigator as it is now, is that you sit for 17 minutes....sitting for 15 isn't much of a difference.

Think about it....

Fighting is against the rules (whether or not fighting is a part of the game is a moot point here), and if one guy takes it upon himself to intentionally break that rule, he had better be getting an extra minor over the player who was simply defending himself.

And honestly, do you really expect guys like Varada and Holmstrom to drop the gloves? Don't forget that for a player to be penalized for fighting, he has to fight. All one of these guys has to do in such situation, is turtle, and his team has a 7-minute powerplay.

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Old
11-08-2003, 01:16 AM
  #18
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he said the coach though, it was the coach's problem about the two minute minor, not the players...

i'm not sure what would be better, just five alone, or five and ten, but the two minute minor has gotta go..

:edit:.. i'd lovvvvvvvvvvvve to see maltby or cooke just THROTTLED

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Old
11-08-2003, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by andora's box
he said the coach though, it was the coach's problem about the two minute minor, not the players...

i'm not sure what would be better, just five alone, or five and ten, but the two minute minor has gotta go..
Even as a coach, I would much rather lose a player for 7 minutes than 15 or 17.

I remember when instigating was just 2+5...nobody complained about it then.

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Old
11-08-2003, 01:33 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Van
I have talked to guys in the BCHL and WHL, and they all say the opposite. Guys would rather sit 7 minutes than 15 or 17.

The whole problem with the instigator as it is now, is that you sit for 17 minutes....sitting for 15 isn't much of a difference.

Think about it....

Fighting is against the rules (whether or not fighting is a part of the game is a moot point here), and if one guy takes it upon himself to intentionally break that rule, he had better be getting an extra minor over the player who was simply defending himself.

And honestly, do you really expect guys like Varada and Holmstrom to drop the gloves? Don't forget that for a player to be penalized for fighting, he has to fight. All one of these guys has to do in such situation, is turtle, and his team has a 7-minute powerplay.
Guess you dont know or are willing to accept the fact that the 2+5+10 is giving the cheapshot team a 2 min POWERPLAY hense that is the actual part of the problem that this thread is surfing around

If you want to keep it in line make it

5 + 10 so no man power gets changed for taking care of business

And what is cheapshot artisting that isnt called? Legal???? or bad officiating ???? or will he blow the flow of the game if he calls the cheapshot artist????


For instigator penalty to work you MUST have refs that call ALL cheapshots once they dont the cheapshot artist wins

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Old
11-08-2003, 01:41 AM
  #21
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It isn't just about cheapshots and stickwork (which is a problem).

It's about scoring and open ice.

The NHL used to spotlight players like Paul Kariya. Those skill players were protected from clutch and grab. If another player tried to used clutch and grab to slow down a player like Kariya, Kariya's teamates would make sure the clutch and grab stopped. Fuhr talks about this exact thing in a recent aticle that I'm sure most of you have seen.

The instigator was put in to try and make hockey appeal to a larger markter with the tought that maybe it was fighting that was holding it back.

Well clearly that wasn't the case

So why isn't the instiagator now removed. I can't think of a NHL superstar that hasn't spoken out against the instigator penalty. And the instigator coincides with the drop in scoring we always hear complaints about.

It's a horrible rule for a game like hockey and one that should be taken back out ASAP.

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Old
11-08-2003, 01:45 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedish Bolt Fan
5 + 10 so no man power gets changed for taking care of business
...As long as the player getting jumped fights back. If not, then it is a 5-minute powerplay to the other team, with the goon sitting an extra 10 to put salt in the open wound.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedish Bolt Fan
And what is cheapshot artisting that isnt called? Legal???? or bad officiating ???? or will he blow the flow of the game if he calls the cheapshot artist????
If the referees see the cheapshot, it will be called.

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Old
11-08-2003, 09:21 AM
  #23
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I don't think petitions work, but I signed it anyway. That crap that Weight did would have been correctly handled by Vancouver if it wasn't for this stupid rule. I've done a complete 360 on this topic.

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Old
11-08-2003, 09:35 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHurricane16
I don't think petitions work, but I signed it anyway. That crap that Weight did would have been correctly handled by Vancouver if it wasn't for this stupid rule. I've done a complete 360 on this topic.
...so your telling me the nucks didnt get retrubution because they didnt want to serve 2min in the box in a near meaningless game at the beggining of the season.......your wrong, there was no retrbeution because they dont have any goons! It was less than adequatly handled by Colin, 5 games is a joke, if it was 20 weight would never let his stick touch another tooth, period. BTW 360 leaves you back at the begining.

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Old
11-08-2003, 01:14 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHard
Van, no offense but you should really think before you post, you're missing the point big time here.

1) The problem with instigator is not players sitting 15 or 17 minutes in the box, it's the 2min PP that opponents get. Coaches hate every PK situation. Who cares what some junior players in junior leagues think about sitting in the box!!
I have talked to coaches....hell, I coach the game myself. Every coach I have ever talked to, including junior hockey coaches, and they will gladly take a PK situation if they send someone out to start a fight.

The problem is losing that player for 17 minutes.

Anytime you hear hockey people in the media talk about it....anytime you hear players and coaches talk about it in the media, they always say the Misconduct is the deterrent for instigating a fight.

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