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Fix the Flames

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Old
11-07-2003, 06:20 PM
  #1
Thalia
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Fix the Flames

Okay, here we go again.

Flames are on their way to be shutout again in their own building.

What's wrong with the Flames, who goes who stays and what would you do to improve this team?

Be an armchair GM and fix the Flames so they can be a playoff team.

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Old
11-07-2003, 06:31 PM
  #2
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Get a real defenseman in there.

Aside from leopold they have a bunch of 3rd pairing guys who are decent, but not very impressive.
A real second line center. Reinprecht is a good 3rd liner but not that great a 2nd liner.
Get rid of dead weight like Turek and bring in a better goalie with more than 1 solid season under his belt. Noodles is good for no more than 35 games a year.
A new coach. The sutter brothers try and coach their teams to play how they played. You can't win when you have 18 guys on your team trying to play Sutter hockey.

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Old
11-07-2003, 06:33 PM
  #3
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Offence, goalie. Bring up Dome or something.

They played well tonight but ran into a hot Roloson, 'specially in the 3rd period. Oh well.

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Old
11-07-2003, 06:39 PM
  #4
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As much as I hate to say it, it's time to trade Iggy. The Flames need to spread out their scoring talent. They can't rely on one guy all the time, especially when he isn't scoring. If they get a couple of guys back for Iggy - say Gagne and Williams (although I don't think this exact deal will happen), they should do it.

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Old
11-07-2003, 06:42 PM
  #5
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The flames are stuck in what seems like perpetual rebuilding. They could probably use some new scouts and a more savvy GM. Sadly the thing that is required most is patience from flames fans which sucks for them considering how long this process has taken already. There is nothing this team can do to be turned into a playoff team overnight.

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:01 PM
  #6
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There's really nothing for the Flames to do now, except to get through the season, let the young guys learn, and pick up someone good at the draft. Repeat for a few years.

I'd think about moving Lydman for some young offensive ability (Kristian Huselius comes to mind) and if the situation is *very* dire at the trade deadline, move Craig Conroy.

Also, does Turek have one more year left on his contract? Or is this the merciful end? Whatever - don't re-sign him!

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:06 PM
  #7
Reign Nateo
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I agree, trade Iginla.

Something like Williams and Vademeer in return. Then trade Conroy for a young centre.

McCammond-Reinprecht-Williams
Saprykiin-*Centre-Kobasew
etc

Break it down to one of the younger teams in the league, put up the "young guns" slogan again and take a high draft pick.

The Flames salary structure is way out of whack in my opinion and they need to blow it up and start again.

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:18 PM
  #8
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Okay, here's the obvious:

The Flames possess some talent. (So I'm not ripping them.) However, relative to the rest of the league, they lack top-tier talent and overall depth of talent. With a franchise that has limited resource$, it takes great drafting over several years, time, patience and some luck.

So, to answer your question: there are no quick fixes, no trade(s) that are going to make this team a legitimate contender for a playoff spot near-term.

Just have to bite the bullet, give Saprykin, Kobasew, Nystrom, Phaneuf and whoever else the time to develop, either in the NHL or elsewhere, and meanwhile draft shrewdly. Sure, as the season wears on, if there is no playoff spot in site (quite likely), then you can look to unload some vets like Conroy for some futures (draft picks, prospects). However, it would be misguided to do so now, as you must have some semblance of respectability (experience) on the roster in order to remain even on the sub-par level they are at currently.

Trading Iginla is akin to all of those clamoring in recent years for the Ducks to ditch Kariya, and "start over." Murray didn't, and instead added, and the Ducks made it to the Finals. (And then Kariya took off, but that's another story. :p ) Iginla should be your building block, not trade bait, unless you are blown away with an offer.

Just my opinion.

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:22 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PigPen
Get a real defenseman in there.

Aside from leopold they have a bunch of 3rd pairing guys who are decent, but not very impressive.
That is the least of their problems. In fact, it isn't a problem at all, imo.

Calling Robyn Regehr, Toni Lydman and Rhett Warrener all 5/6 dmen does not speak much for your knowledge of hockey, I'm afraid. They have one of the more solid defenses in the league. Top 10-12 easy.

The reason they don't win more games is because they can't score any goals. Period. Goaltending, though Noodles has been pretty good this year, is also very suspect, especially without Turek for an extended time.

This team needs to trade one of their 5 top-4 dmen for more offensive help. That would be my first move. Second move would be to look to trade Iginla. Not neccesarily trade him, but definately take offers. If one knocked my socks off, I wouldn't hesitate to trade him.

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:25 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
I agree, trade Iginla.

Something like Williams and Vademeer in return. Then trade Conroy for a young centre.
Williams and Vandermeer? Are you kidding?

Would you take that crapass package for Naslund or Bertuzzi? Didn't think so.


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Old
11-07-2003, 07:27 PM
  #11
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WILD IDEA but...

i think they should sign THEOREN FLEURY

he was absolutely amazing in his earlier days with calgary. he could rediscover his passion for hockey by returning to a real-hockey town. the flames got some size on their team and a bunch of positional players. thjey need someone speedy, intense and feisty like fleury. yep i think they could also use his offense. could fix their offnse you know

McCammond - Conroy - Iginla
Kobasew - Reinprecht - Fleury
Saprykin - Yelle - Donovan
Gelinas - Betts/Clark - Lombardi

Lydman - Warrener
Reghr - Leopold
Gauthier - Ference
Montador

Turek

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:27 PM
  #12
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No Vancouver fan would. Of course, Naslund and Bertuzzi are much more proven commodities than Iginla at this point, and are also cheaper.

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:33 PM
  #13
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Gauthier and Saprykin for ?

That could net us something IMO, and whatever you do, get rid of Dean McAmmond, he is nothing but 1.5 million bucks dragging down whoever he has played with this year. Give Reinprecht some respect too, he has been our best offensive player, 7 points in 9 games, I think we need a second line center, any suggestions? No offense to Lombardi, who has played well, but we a bit more experience to play with Kobasew who should (I know this is strange) stay over Lombardi....no knock on Loms, I just wouldn't mind if we could get rid of McAmmond, IL him or something, and put Loms in the PB every so often (Kobasew as well). I really think we needed Berard to be the puck rusher and make Gauthier or (but preferably not) Lydman available for a trade....thus helping our offense in more ways than one. I personally think Sappy could make it big somewhere else, but I think he just won't make it in Calgary, call me crazy, but it would be better for Calgary and for him. Gauthier and Saprykin are together 2.6 or 2.7 million, could we get a respectable 2nd line C for that much? (plus 1.5 mill from McAmmond if he healthies up)

PS - Give Dome a chance too.

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:34 PM
  #14
kruezer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoS
WILD IDEA but...

i think they should sign THEOREN FLEURY

he was absolutely amazing in his earlier days with calgary. he could rediscover his passion for hockey by returning to a real-hockey town. the flames got some size on their team and a bunch of positional players. thjey need someone speedy, intense and feisty like fleury. yep i think they could also use his offense. could fix their offnse you know

McCammond - Conroy - Iginla
Kobasew - Reinprecht - Fleury
Saprykin - Yelle - Donovan
Gelinas - Betts/Clark - Lombardi

Lydman - Warrener
Reghr - Leopold
Gauthier - Ference
Montador

Turek
He's not yet back in hockey though, from what I read in THN.

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:39 PM
  #15
Reign Nateo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
Williams and Vandermeer? Are you kidding?

Would you take that crapass package for Naslund or Bertuzzi? Didn't think so.

Just throwing names out there, not making a proposal. However I wouldn't exactly refer to it as a "crap ass package"

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:42 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
Just throwing names out there, not making a proposal. However I wouldn't exactly refer to it as a "crap ass package"
Well obviously the quality of trade packages is relative to the player going the other way.

Williams and Vandermeer is a glorious, miraculous return for Mats Lindgren.

But that same package is indeed "crapass" when Jarome Iginla is going the other way.

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Old
11-07-2003, 07:43 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
Just throwing names out there, not making a proposal. However I wouldn't exactly refer to it as a "crap ass package"
I sure would, in this context.

I think it's rather akin to Williams and Vandermeer for Bertuzzi. I rather doubt you would pull the trigger on that.

But what's the panic? Honestly, it's 12 games into the season, or something. I'm not that concerned, we'll get out of this slump. I don't understand why there isn't a 'Fix the Oilers' or 'Fix the Sharks' thread out there for every one of these. Although the Oilers are doing better than us. :mad:!

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Old
11-07-2003, 09:56 PM
  #18
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just in, the flames are mathimatically eliminated from playoffs for the 2003-2004 season... and the 2004-2005 season, and the 2005-2006 season...

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Old
11-08-2003, 01:16 AM
  #19
Shin Pad
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I'm a die hard Flames fan, but the answer to thier problems is in the draft. They just aren't going to get fair value back for guys like Iggy. They need to build the team back up through the draft. They made a good start in this summer's draft by getting guys like Phaneuf and Rambolt. That's what they have to continue to do. Sorry, but there are no quick fixes here - I know that the Flames have gone a long time without results, but it will still take a long time to get where they should be.

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Old
11-08-2003, 01:33 AM
  #20
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IMO the Flames should start to build for the future. Trade Conroy for youth and/or draft picks, buy out Turek and move one of Gauthier/ Leopold/ Warrener for a good 1st or 2nd line forward. The Flames should just suck really bad this year and therefore would increase there chance of getting one those highly praized offensive talents at the 04 Draft.

IMO the club needs offence first and goaltending second.

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Old
11-08-2003, 01:43 AM
  #21
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Up front the Flames are terrible. Aside from Jarome Iginla they do not have a single first liner by NHL standards. Conroy and McAmmond are second line at best, if not third liners on a solid playoff team. The defence has some good youngsters but are hurt by a lack of experience after Bob Boughner was moved. The third and fourth lines are a collection of poor quality role players and green youngsters. To make the Flames better they need better drafting as a paramount consideration. They need to stop making tit-for-tat moves like trading Marc Savard for essentially nothing, Bob Bougher apparently for the hell of it.

For this season, Turek when healthy, has to be at All-Star form and Jarome Iginla has to be up in the top-ten in scoring. And that will not put the Flames in the playoffs, merely give them some hope of winning. They are a number of years off playoff hockey.

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Old
11-08-2003, 03:02 AM
  #22
Voynich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalia
Okay, here we go again.

Flames are on their way to be shutout again in their own building.

What's wrong with the Flames, who goes who stays and what would you do to improve this team?

Be an armchair GM and fix the Flames so they can be a playoff team.
Send them back to us in Atlanta.

Really, IMHO the best thing to do is suck for a few years. It would undoubtedly kill fan support a bit(not as much as it would in a non-Canadian city), but it gives you the necessary pieces through the draft to build from the ground up.

I'd say sell Iginla to the highest bidder as well. Can you imagine how far you could bend Sather over the barrel for him? Something like Tjutin, Blackburn, Lundmark and a 1st.

That goes for any of the big market GMs. There isn't a team in the league that wouldn't want this guy.(But there are many that wouldn't drop their pants in the deal)

Send him to the Wangs and get a return of Fischer, one or two of thos young offensive stud prospects they've got (i.e. Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Hudler) and a 1st round pick or some other ludicrous deal.

Or you could just patch the holes in the ship and hope it sails another year on the sea of mediocrity.

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Old
11-08-2003, 03:24 AM
  #23
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They need former Flames: :mad:

A number 1 goalie: Giguerre,

A second line: Savard, St. Louis, Stillman,

A third line: Fata, Niedermayer, Cowan...

A number 1 dman: Kuba

All were let go for almost nothing.


Stupid GM, Stupid coach has been their problem over the years.

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Old
11-08-2003, 04:47 AM
  #24
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They need a #1 dman that can score.

They can't score because they have no skill on back end. The forwards can't score without the D getting involved and the D can't defend without the forwards coming back. It's a team 5 unit transition they lack. They need 5 guys to try to score and 5 guys to defend. They are not doing that.

They have weak forwards so they need as much help from the D as possible. They get just the opposite, a bunch of stiffs that can't pass or shoot. The result is a team that scores the least goals in the nhl.
Unless you have Brodeur in net you're asking for trouble.

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Old
11-08-2003, 06:29 AM
  #25
Thalia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg
I don't understand why there isn't a 'Fix the Oilers' or 'Fix the Sharks'
Because I started the original thread about how to improve the Leafs and there were a lot of good responses so I wanted to do the same with the Flames.

There probably won't be a "Fix the Sharks" thread by me b/c I'm mostly interested in the Canadian teams so I'll leave the others to someone else.

The Oilers have been doing okay up until now but if they go through a slump then maybe we'll dissect them too and if the 'Nucks start sucking it up... I'll be the first one to post a "Fix the 'Nucks" thread.

Don't take it as a slight against the Flames b/c it isn't; just trying to make people think and converse rather than useless bashing. Besides, I really only talk/write much about the teams I like so take it as a compliment. :p

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