"Exhibit 16.5.d
For any SPC existing prior to the expiration of the Expired CBA that contains an option clause that provides for the Player to be paid an amount of money in the event that such option is not exercised, then such payment shall: (i) for purposes of clarity, be subject to the 24 percent rollback set forth in Paragraph 1 above, and (ii) shall be counted against the Club's Upper Limit and against the Players' Share for any league Year in which such payment is made, provided, that if for any such option that is applicable to the 2005-06 League Year(i.e. 2005-06 is the option year), if during the Compliance Buyout Period a Club either: (A) does not exercise that option for the 2005-06 season, or (B) voids that option year pursuant to Paragraph 5(e) below, any such payment made in connection therewith shall be treated as a Compliance Buyout in accordance with the original terms of the SPC containing such option."
If this is the case, then the Avs had to know that the bonus was going to count against the cap as soon as they told Sakic and Blake that they were not going to pick up the options.
...which is why many of us are perturbed at PL/FG signing Sakic to such a ridiculous deal. Either way, if a bunch of guys on the internet/in the press can figure this out and the Avs' staff couldn't, well....
If this is the case, then the Avs had to know that the bonus was going to count against the cap as soon as they told Sakic and Blake that they were not going to pick up the options.
If what you say is true and they did know, then the Sakic contract is absolutely horrific. How do you sign him for that amount of money if you know that he is owed the bonus money? Either they're incredibly stupid and didn't take into account the consequences this would have on the cap, somehow didn't think they would have to pay these bonuses or they simply forgot. Either way, that's amazingly embarassing.
I've always been behind this front office, even when questionable decisions were made. You could point to their track record down through the years and put your faith in them. I'm not sure I have that anymore. Sure, the CBA is complicated and this is a new era with the salary cap. I'm not expecting perfection, I realize mistakes are going to happen but the magnitude of this mistake cannot be understated. It's their job to understand how actions like this are going to effect the salary cap. I'm stunned that they were capable of this big of a gaff. Not much else to say.
The bonuses might have just counted next year, when the contract was up. I'm willing to bet the Avs management didn't know until after Sakic was signed.
I also think there's a lot about this, that we don't know about, because on the surface, it looks like the CBA should prevent them from even counting past last year.
If what you say is true and they did know, then the Sakic contract is absolutely horrific. How do you sign him for that amount of money if you know that he is owed the bonus money? Either they're incredibly stupid and didn't take into account the consequences this would have on the cap, somehow didn't think they would have to pay these bonuses or they simply forgot. Either way, that's amazingly embarassing.
I've always been behind this front office, even when questionable decisions were made. You could point to their track record down through the years and put your faith in them. I'm not sure I have that anymore. Sure, the CBA is complicated and this is a new era with the salary cap. I'm not expecting perfection, I realize mistakes are going to happen but the magnitude of this mistake cannot be understated. It's their job to understand how actions like this are going to effect the salary cap. I'm stunned that they were capable of this big of a gaff. Not much else to say.
Ugh, this is terrible if this turns out to be true. I didn't think the Avs FO would be capable of making a blunder like this. I mean, a mistake of this magnitude realisticaly prevents the Avs from even being close to contenders next year unless they get extremely lucky.
I don't expect perfection either. But, I do expect them to know something major like this. I'm hoping we read Blake signs with us & that things aren't screwed up as the DP has reported. But, I'll admit, I've got a funny feeling the Avs goofed.....big time.
To be fair to the Avs management, I found this rule in the Exhibits section of the CBA and not the Articles section. When I first read the CBA, it appeared as if all the rules were in the Articles section and that the Exhibits section just contained a bunch of forms for various things dealing with the CBA (offer sheets, standard player contract forms and the like). It was only when I started digging into the Exhibit section that I found this. While it is inexcuseable that they may have missed this, since it is their job, I can certainly understand how it might of happened.
When they declined the options on Sakic and Blake, the league may not have said anything about the cap hit since it's in the CBA, so Avs management may not have had any idea until after Sakic was signed.
To be fair to the Avs management, I found this rule in the Exhibits section of the CBA and not the Articles section. When I first read the CBA, it appeared as if all the rules were in the Articles section and that the Exhibits section just contained a bunch of forms for various things dealing with the CBA (offer sheets, standard player contract forms and the like). It was only when I started digging into the Exhibit section that I found this. While it is inexcuseable that they may have missed this, since it is their job, I can certainly understand how it might of happened.
When they declined the options on Sakic and Blake, the league may not have said anything about the cap hit since it's in the CBA, so Avs management may not have had any idea until after Sakic was signed.
Well, if for some reason they missed that... can they go through an appeal process with the league?
We kind of have two threads discusing the same subject. Maybe we should keep the bonuses talk to the "Bonuses Count" thread that AD posted, as to avoid confusion. That would keep us from posting the same things in two different threads, to speak with different posters. It did originate in this thread, because AD first brought it up here, but the other thread seems like a more apropriate place now. Just an idea.
Well, if for some reason they missed that... can they go through an appeal process with the league?
Unfortunately, I don't think so. At least I couldn't find anything on it while I was looking in the CBA for that and the possibilty that there might be a period of time where Sakic's new contract could be nullified if both parties wish. While I can understand how they could have missed it, the blame lies squarely with the Avs organization.
Essentially, Avs management messed up on a small oversight with massive consequences.
We kind of have two threads discusing the same subject. Maybe we should keep the bonuses talk to the "Bonuses Count" thread that AD posted, as to avoid confusion. That would keep us from posting the same things in two different threads, to speak with different posters. It did originate in this thread, because AD first brought it up here, but the other thread seems like a more apropriate place now. Just an idea.
We kind of have two threads discusing the same subject. Maybe we should keep the bonuses talk to the "Bonuses Count" thread that AD posted, as to avoid confusion. That would keep us from posting the same things in two different threads, to speak with different posters. It did originate in this thread, because AD first brought it up here, but the other thread seems like a more apropriate place now. Just an idea.
No, no mistake. I wasn't pointing any blame toward anybody, or telling anybody what they should do. It was just an idea. I've been talking about it here too. It just seems that it's become such a big issue, and at the time we we're talking about Blake and Sakic's option year salaries in both threads We might as well keep it in one thread, to save us some time. Wasn't trying to assume any responsibilty to tell people what they should do, or where they should post. Just making a suggestion.
The defense is shaping up to be pretty soft even if Blake signs:
Liles Blake
Leopold Brisebois
Vaananen Sauer
I'm still holding out hope that Blake signs a deal for 2-3 M. It could make or break our season. If not, some trade will need to be done to acquire a respectable defensive defenseman should Skrastins not be re-signed.
I'm also curious to know what is Sakic's POV re: his contract. Did he know about the bonus (highly likely)? Did the Avs know? Likely as well given that they have a capologist and a conscientious GM (PL/FG). Why didn't Sakic sign a deal for less money? This doesn't make sense. It's time for the Avs to own up if they made a mistake and I hope Dater's article sheds some light on this tommorrow. Maybe there's a possibility that Sakic's salary takes into account his bonus? I doubt it...but one can hope right now given the ambiguity over the Avs' cap status due to a lack of willingness to comment.
Last edited by Super Joe Sakic: 06-30-2006 at 01:15 AM.
The defense is shaping up to be pretty soft even if Blake signs:
Liles Blake
Leopold Brisebois
Vaananen Sauer
I'm still holding out hope that Blake signs a deal for 2-3 M. It could make or break our season. If not, some trade will need to be done to acquire a respectable defensive defenseman should Skrastins not be re-signed.
I'm also curious to know what is Sakic's POV re: his contract. Did he know about the bonus (highly likely)? Did the Avs know? Likely as well given that they have a capologist and a conscientious GM (PL/FG). Why didn't Sakic sign a deal for less money? This doesn't make sense. It's time for the Avs to own up if they made a mistake and I hope Dater's article sheds some light on this tommorrow. Maybe there's a possibility that Sakic's salary takes into account his bonus? I doubt it...but one can hope right now given the ambiguity over the Avs' cap status due to a lack of willingness to comment.
Nothing new in that article. Giguere can't be reached for comment? What a surprise
I think they should go to Rob Blake...shake his hand...and thank him for his time with the Avalanche. They have to keep Skrastins imo. Bring in a second tier defenseman and go from there.
Nothing new in that article. Giguere can't be reached for comment? What a surprise
I think they should go to Rob Blake...shake his hand...and thank him for his time with the Avalanche. They have to keep Skrastins imo. Bring in a second tier defenseman and go from there.
If the Avs bring in Tyler Arnason...I'll puke.
Ahh the fun we had with Arnason here in Chicago. He makes Alex Tanguay's comments about not working his hardest look tame. Arnason could give 2 craps about the game, as long as he is getting his paycheck. He would rather spend his time chasing skirts with Theo Fluery (and getting beat up afterwords might I add)
considering he turned down the senators when they asked him to take less than his 1.2 mil qualifier, I think the avs might be priced out of the Arnason sweepstakes
The defense is shaping up to be pretty soft even if Blake signs:
Liles Blake
Leopold Brisebois
Vaananen Sauer
I'm still holding out hope that Blake signs a deal for 2-3 M. It could make or break our season. If not, some trade will need to be done to acquire a respectable defensive defenseman should Skrastins not be re-signed.
Yeesh! Skrats/Clark were clearly our best defensive pairing last year when defensive D was our weak point, and we may well be looking at losing both. That is not good.
The problem is that if we let Blake go and keep Skrats, who is the 'other D?'. You'd hope it's not Clark (though he played well), but I'm not sure who we can realistically afford that won't be the subject of a bidding war.
Leopold-Skrats
Liles-X
Vanannen-Breeze
If X was McKee or Mitchell that wouldn't look bad, but I dont' think we have any real shot at those guys. Who else is out there? If we bring Clark back it would probably be:
Skrats - Clark
Leopold - Liles
Vanannen - Breeze
Not great, but maybe not any worse than jeriholic's group, and almost certainly cheaper. Theo better be pretty good though, 'cause he'd see a lot of rubber behind that group.
Yeesh! Skrats/Clark were clearly our best defensive pairing last year when defensive D was our weak point, and we may well be looking at losing both. That is not good.
The problem is that if we let Blake go and keep Skrats, who is the 'other D?'. You'd hope it's not Clark (though he played well), but I'm not sure who we can realistically afford that won't be the subject of a bidding war.
Leopold-Skrats
Liles-X
Vanannen-Breeze
If X was McKee or Mitchell that wouldn't look bad, but I dont' think we have any real shot at those guys. Who else is out there? If we bring Clark back it would probably be:
Skrats - Clark
Leopold - Liles
Vanannen - Breeze
Not great, but maybe not any worse than jeriholic's group, and almost certainly cheaper. Theo better be pretty good though, 'cause he'd see a lot of rubber behind that group.
I am not sure about it. Liles and Leo have a good chemistry between them ala Skratch and Clark. And Vaananen nullifies Breezer's brainfarts, hopefully. I wouldn't be opposed to this kind of D next year, if Avs manage to sign a good 2nd line center.
