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Old
06-28-2006, 10:15 AM
  #76
Jori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkboy
I agree, but buying out Blake sure looks like it might have been a smart thing to do considering they'd have to buy out this bonus and could clear it all away in one fell swoop.
I never really leaned one way or the other when it came to Blake. There is just no way they could buy out Sakic.

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06-28-2006, 10:17 AM
  #77
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We'll have to agree to disagree Bender.

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:17 AM
  #78
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I really don't want to get into the argument of who they should've bought out last year again. But even if they knew this and it made financial sense there is no way that they would've bought out Sakic. Talk about a PR disaster. Foote/Blake the argument can easily be made.

What pisses me off and is inexcusable is that they apparently didn't know this! How in the world do you sign someone (Sakic) without knowing how these bonuses will effect his overall cap number?! It's like they're asleep at the wheel over there and acting befoere they have all the facts. At this point, I say let Blake go unless he's willing to be extremely generous with his salary. I don't see how this team can make any improvements whatsoever with so much money already commited to the salary cap.

This freakin' sucks!

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:20 AM
  #79
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I've gotta ask the question, would this have happened had the Avs not had a personnel change in the GM office?

Did Lacroix go on a vacation and just like, uh, forget to tell his predecessor?

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:25 AM
  #80
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I'd still like to see Blake resigned with the bonus factored into the negotiations. But the fact that it didn't happen with Sakic makes it more difficult. What a mess...

So we are basically stuck with the same roster as last year, one that just sqeaked into the playoffs, without Tanguay, with a full year of Wolski and Theo, with Leopold and possibly without Blake.

I guess that playoff streak had to come to an end eventually...

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:28 AM
  #81
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I always wanted to keep Sakic and Blake over Foote and Forsberg, but this got me thinking again..

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:29 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkboy
I'd still like to see Blake resigned with the bonus factored into the negotiations. But the fact that it didn't happen with Sakic makes it more difficult. What a mess...

So we are basically stuck with the same roster as last year, one that just sqeaked into the playoffs, without Tanguay, with a full year of Wolski and Theo, with Leopold and possibly without Blake.

I guess that playoff streak had to come to an end eventually...
This with the assumption that re-signing the players from last season's roster won't get out of hand.

It only takes one cocky sob --

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:35 AM
  #83
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You know what's funny.

I still think this team is better then last year.

As long as they can sign Blake. (and barring injuries of course, like every year)

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:36 AM
  #84
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Blake's replacement:

Brisebois


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Old
06-28-2006, 10:37 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Tanner
You know what's funny.

I still think this team is better then last year.

As long as they can sign Blake. (and barring injuries of course, like every year)
Yeah, but latest rumor is that he's going back to LA, so.. We are ****ed. This means also more playing time to Brisebois.

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:43 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkboy
I'd still like to see Blake resigned with the bonus factored into the negotiations. But the fact that it didn't happen with Sakic makes it more difficult. What a mess...

So we are basically stuck with the same roster as last year, one that just sqeaked into the playoffs, without Tanguay, with a full year of Wolski and Theo, with Leopold and possibly without Blake.

I guess that playoff streak had to come to an end eventually...
That's what everybody said last year too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jori_18_23
We'll have to agree to disagree Bender.
Agree. However, the Sakic buyout would have been a last resort thing for me. The main point is this :

Avs management - We assume, they are professionals who will go through (or hire a firm to go through if they cannot) the CBA with a fine toothed comb to see how these new realities apply to their club. To not have done this is simply unacceptable.

New CBA - I cannot understand THE POINT in putting this in the new CBA and have it affect the cap. I don't see how it restricts any teams from currently doing business with the new CBA. This simply ******** them with which the way they've done business in the past. (without these retarded restrictions)

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:47 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Tanner
You know what's funny.

I still think this team is better then last year.

As long as they can sign Blake. (and barring injuries of course, like every year)
I hope so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender
That's what everybody said last year too.
True enough... but it's hard not to commiserate in times like this, you know?

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:53 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkboy
I'd still like to see Blake resigned with the bonus factored into the negotiations. But the fact that it didn't happen with Sakic makes it more difficult. What a mess...
This is exactly the part that I don't understand. Even if these bonuses from 2001 count against the cap this year--a ridiculous clause, but oh well--they STILL COULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH by simply incorporating them into the negotiations! (And I know you've made this point too, darkboy.) How on God's green earth did no one know about this so that they could have just signed Sakic for, say, 3.45M, allowing him to get paid 5.75M with his bonus?! (or something in that neigborhood at least)

And I agree with darkboy here too. We still need to salvage Blake by doing the same thing--factor the bonus into the negotiations. I doubt either player would have much problem with that.

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:54 AM
  #89
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Colorado rejected their option-years, so they have to pay for that?

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:01 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoHockeyFan
This is exactly the part that I don't understand. Even if these bonuses from 2001 count against the cap this year--a ridiculous clause, but oh well--they STILL COULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH by simply incorporating them into the negotiations! (And I know you've made this point too, darkboy.) How on God's green earth did no one know about this so that they could have just signed Sakic for, say, 3.45M, allowing him to get paid 5.75M with his bonus?! (or something in that neigborhood at least)
Bingo.

It's not that the bonuses are there that bothers me, it's the fact that management was asleep at the wheel while negotiating with Sakic. This could've been avoided had they done their homework on these clauses and factor in these bonuses when figuring out the yearly salary.

The fact that they have to pay these bonuses still doesn't add up to me. I don't see how putting this in the CBA does or prevents anything. It punishes the way teams acted BEFORE the new CBA which doesn't seem right or fair.

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:09 AM
  #91
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The Blake to LA rumor is an Eklund one, so deal with it in that manner.

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:22 AM
  #92
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In this case buying out Brisebois, May and Turgeon becomes a neccisity not an option!

I can't really fault Pierre, who knew what the new CBA would bring 5 years ago and in negotiations he was competing with the fact that the Rangers would give Sakic and Blake whatever they want.

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06-28-2006, 11:31 AM
  #93
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OK regardless of who reportydit I'm a bit skeptical of this information, however, in the event it is correct a few things need to occur.

First we must brace ourselves for a lackluster season. The Avs will field the same team minus Tanguay and potentially Blake.

Second, every single member of Avs management needs to be canned. Kroenke needs to take matters into his own hands, and fire the whole lot of them...PL. Giguerre, etc...they all need to go. This isn't the only thing they have botched, whether it be letting Footer and Forsberg walk, not buying out Blake, trading for an overpaid, overrated Theodore, this debacle, etc...This is incompotence at the highest level.

Again, I don't know to what degree this info is accurate...it may be a ploy for negotiations with the remaining RFA's and Blake. There may be other factors..I have a really hard time believing that Avs management didn't know about any of this going into negotiations with Sakic, but all of the sudden found out when they dealt Tanguay. If this is the case, then there is no doubt they all need to go and the Avs need to begin a new, with new management.

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:33 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiavsfan
The Blake to LA rumor is an Eklund one, so deal with it in that manner.
Let him go, and eat the 2.3 million. For God sakes buy out Brisebois and Turgeon. They bring nothing to help this team. Resign Clark and Skrastins, let Hinote go. Then use the 8 million or so you have left to target a D-man like McKee, and a decent 2nd line forward. It's better than signing Blake to 8 million and not having any room to try and improve the team. If they don't, this team is screwed next season.

Brunette/Sakic/Hejduk
???/Wolski/Svatos
Konowalchuk/Laperriere/Laaksonen
May/McLean/McCormick

McKee/Leopld
Skrastins/Clark
Liles/Vaananen

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:45 AM
  #95
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Please let this "Neptune" guy be right. FWIW, everyone who's actually pulled out passages from the CBA text seems to be in agreement that the bonuses shouldn't count.

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:45 AM
  #96
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You could put Konowalchuk to second line.

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:52 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro
In this case buying out Brisebois, May and Turgeon becomes a neccisity not an option!

I can't really fault Pierre, who knew what the new CBA would bring 5 years ago and in negotiations he was competing with the fact that the Rangers would give Sakic and Blake whatever they want.

The problem with this assertion is that PL has demonstrated a high level of incompotence with dealing with the cap from day one. This has nothing to do with the fact the money has to be paid (which in and of itself makes no sense to me because these players options were declined and they are UFA's), it has to do with the fact no one apparently knew the money would count against the cap until after Sakic signed his deal. You add in everything else, the signing of May, Brisebois, and Turgeon, the refusal to buyout Blake to keep Foote and Forsberg, the trade for an overpaid undeacheiving goaltender, the trade of Tanguay with out being able to fill his void, etc...and hell yes you can blame Lacrox. The AVs have lost 3 franchise players in the last year because Lacroix and his management team don't have the s**t straight.


Again the Avs have lost Forsberg, Foote, and Tanguay, all staples of this organization, primarily because they refused to buyout Rob Blake...he's the player in all of this that has screwed us the most. I say let him walk too!!!!
Time to clean house my friend.

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:56 AM
  #98
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Actually trading for Theodore screwed things. Without him we would still have Tanguay and 2-3 million to burn.

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:57 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose'sMullet
The problem with this assertion is that PL has demonstrated a high level of incompotence with dealing with the cap from day one. This has nothing to do with the fact the money has to be paid (which in and of itself makes no sense to me because these players options were declined and they are UFA's), it has to do with the fact no one apparently knew the money would count against the cap until after Sakic signed his deal. You add in everything else, the signing of May, Brisebois, and Turgeon, the refusal to buyout Blake to keep Foote and Forsberg, the trade for an overpaid undeacheiving goaltender, the trade of Tanguay with out being able to fill his void, etc...and hell yes you can blame Lacrox. The AVs have lost 3 franchise players in the last year because Lacroix and his management team don't have the s**t straight.


Again the Avs have lost Forsberg, Foote, and Tanguay, all staples of this organization, primarily because they refused to buyout Rob Blake...he's the player in all of this that has screwed us the most. I say let him walk too!!!!
Time to clean house my friend.
And before you start a bloodbath you should take a look at how much Lou Lamerillo has tied up in players not even on his roster.

Where this becomes a problem is if the Avs don't adjust and be ruthless about Brisebois, Turgeon and May.

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:59 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose'sMullet
Time to clean house my friend.
Could be. Rebuild, instead of just retool.

Start new with a bunch of young guys.

Of course, we probably wouldn't see the playoffs for a few years, but that's the price of rebuilding.

BUT, if we're going to go that route, and let our guys go, we should let Lacroix and his legal/finance team go, too!

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