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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Dino Ciccarelli

View Poll Results: Should dino get into the Hockey Hall of Fame
yes 48 59.26%
no 33 40.74%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-28-2006, 09:34 AM
  #1
Leaf Lander
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Dino Ciccarelli

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Only 12 players in NHL history scored more goals than Dino Ciccarelli, but he's been denied a place in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

That could change when the selection committee decides on a new slate of inductees Wednesday, but Ciccarelli isn't holding his breath. He's already been passed over three times.

Committee members who have deemed Ciccarelli not good enough to get in ignore the reality that he scored more goals than Rocket Richard, Guy Lafleur, Jean Beliveau, Gilbert Perreault, Darryl Sittler, Bryan Trottier and dozens of other forwards who have been inducted.

He must have had something going for him and he scored all those goals after no team picked him in the NHL entry draft.


Nobody was better in front of an opponent's net, taking a pounding in the process, than the five-foot-10 centre from Sarnia, Ont.

Ciccarelli scored 608 goals and amassed 1,200 points in 1,232 games over 20 seasons with Minnesota, Washington, Detroit, Tampa Bay and Florida before retiring in 1999.

He had his off- and on-ice troubles, including a 10-game suspension in 1988 for hitting Luke Richardson over the head with his stick, but some of the men whose plaques hang in the Hockey Hall of Fame also served suspensions during their careers.

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Old
06-28-2006, 09:51 AM
  #2
andreydali19
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Absolutely, but not 'til '09 at the latest.

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Old
06-28-2006, 10:38 AM
  #3
Nifty=HHOF
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No, he's an alltime really good not an alltime great

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Old
06-28-2006, 11:29 AM
  #4
ClassicHockey
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I'd like to know who wrote the comments you posted. I don't agree that Ciccarelli was the best in front of the net. And the writer has the nerve to compare Ciccarelli to Richard, Lafleur, Beliveau etc. because of the number of goals he scored withough qualifying it by the number of games played, eras and other important factors.
Also the last sentence is pretty short-sighted. Just because other morally poor choices got elected before, that justifies that another should be selected? That doesn't make sense either. Those poor choices should be used as an example not to let any more of those types in.

Only 12 players in NHL history scored more goals than Dino Ciccarelli, but he's been denied a place in the Hockey Hall of Fame.
That could change when the selection committee decides on a new slate of inductees Wednesday, but Ciccarelli isn't holding his breath. He's already been passed over three times.
Committee members who have deemed Ciccarelli not good enough to get in ignore the reality that he scored more goals than Rocket Richard, Guy Lafleur, Jean Beliveau, Gilbert Perreault, Darryl Sittler, Bryan Trottier and dozens of other forwards who have been inducted.
He must have had something going for him and he scored all those goals after no team picked him in the NHL entry draft.
Nobody was better in front of an opponent's net, taking a pounding in the process, than the five-foot-10 centre from Sarnia, Ont.
Ciccarelli scored 608 goals and amassed 1,200 points in 1,232 games over 20 seasons with Minnesota, Washington, Detroit, Tampa Bay and Florida before retiring in 1999.
He had his off- and on-ice troubles, including a 10-game suspension in 1988 for hitting Luke Richardson over the head with his stick, but some of the men whose plaques hang in the Hockey Hall of Fame also served suspensions during their careers.

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Old
06-28-2006, 12:29 PM
  #5
Sens Rule
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I think he eventually gets in. Really there are so many players in the HOF that are not as good as Dino. Dino IMO was better then Gartner and Andreychuk. Gartner is in for accumulating far more than his peak performance and I think Dino was better at his peak then Gartner was or Andreychuk.

Dino might not get in for 5 or 10 years but he will get in.

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06-28-2006, 01:18 PM
  #6
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I can't think of an eligible, previously-snubbed player who has generated more quality, HHOF-related debate on these boards than Dino Ciccarrelli.

This is his fifth shot at the Hall. In Dino's defence, he has more goals than any eligible player not in the HHOF. He was an aggressive, abrasive, chippy forward who was excellent in front of the net (although not the best) and in the corners. Wasn't afraid to get involved physically. And he was a very good playoff performer. I believe he held the record for most playoff points by a rookie for about a decade.

On the downside, many people point to his longevity, not dominance, as the reason he scored so many goals. It's the same argument facing guys like Dave Andreychuk, Pat Verbeek and others. Ciccarelli's on and off ice problems have hurt him. Conduct won't be used against a lock for the HHOF (Shore, Bobby Hull, Sprague Claghorn) it will be used against a borderline candidate like Ciccarrelli or Glenn Anderson.

I think Dino was a better player than Dave Andreychuk, and I, for one, don't view Andreychuk as HHOF-worthy. Andreychuk has over 600 goals, too, but did it by sticking around forever. He was never viewed as a top 25 player. And if not for the Cup in 2004, he wouldn't be remembered favourably for his playoff performance. I don't think many people care that Andreychuk is the all-time power play goals leader.

As for Gartner, he's in the HHOF for one reason: an unprecedented level of year-to-year consistency to reach a respected single season milestone (30 goals in 15 straight seasons and 17 straight non-lockout seasons) and a very respected career plateau (700 goals). Tied for third all-time with nine 40-goal seasons, too, if that means anything.

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Old
06-28-2006, 01:34 PM
  #7
Bluesfan1981
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I think anyone with more than 600 goals should make it.

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06-28-2006, 02:14 PM
  #8
JCD
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Hall of Fame is for Great players. Great is a subjective term that you can't quantify.

Through out 600-goal plateaus, career points and that. Was Dino a great player? Did anybody ever call him "one of the best" during his career? Did he have any great accomplishments?

IMO, no. I LOVED Dino as a player, he was one of my All-Time favorite North Stars, but he belongs in the Hall of Very Good. I put him on the same level as Gartner and Andeychuk (I know Gartner is in, doesn't mean I think he belongs there), a player who played a lot of years, accomplished a great deal and was a consistently good to very good player. He just never reached that next level where you said "wow, that is a great player". The Hall if for guys like Lidstrom, Yzerman, Hasek, Sakic, Forsberg and Hull. Guys who defined there team, if not their era and whose accomplishments can be recalled without the need for statistical spreadsheets.

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Old
06-29-2006, 10:40 AM
  #9
Dr Love
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Should Dino get into the Hockey Hall of Fame

A good question, and a good opportuntity to break out my little toy, The Gartner Test:

Dino's career stats: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=00000992

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in hockey? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in hockey?

Never. He played in the era of Gretzky and Lemieux, where for pretty much anyone that wasn't those two this answer is no.

2. Was he the best player on his team?

He was, but not consistently. His first full season he led the North Stars in goals and finished 8 points behind Bobby Smith for the team lead. In 86-87 he was far and away the best player on the North Stars, with a 52-51-103 line nearly lapping his teammates, the next highest point total was 63, although Neal Broten missed half the season that year. He would also lead the North Stars in points the next season. In 89-90, with the Capitals, Ciccarelli once again led his team in points and goals, and in 91-92 was a close third in points and led the team in goals. And in his last big season, 96-97 with the Lightning, he finished only 2 points behind Chris Gratton for team lead and led the team in goals. He is the all-time leader in points for the Minnesota installment of the North Stars franchise.

3. Was he the best player in hockey at his position?

A RW, Ciccarelli's contemporaries were Mike Bossi, Jari Kurri, Brett Hull, Glen Anderson, Cam Neely, Tim Kerr... Ciccarelli played in a really strong era for RWs.

4. Did he have an impact on a number of playoff runs?

Yes. His rookie season, 80-81, he was 3rd on the North Stars in points and 2nd in goals in their run to the Finals. In the 94-95 playoffs he tied for the team lead in goals for the Red Wings, who also would reach the Finals. With 118 points in 141 playoff games, Ciccarelli was a fine playoff performer, albeit not incredibly inconsistent.

5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?

In 96-97, at the age of 36 and having been shipped off by Detroit for declining play, a rejuvenated Ciccarelli led the Lightning with 35 goals.

6. Is he the very best player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

He's the highest scoring player that is eligible and not in. That doesn't make him the best player per se, but stats do matter in the HOF and he's the highest guy on the list.

7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?

608 goals, 1200 points; those are numbers that many HOFers have or exceed, but Ciccarelli did it in 1232 games, nearly every HOFer with at least as many goals and points did it in at least a hundred games less. His .97 PPG average is equal to or slightly below Luc Robitaille, Jean Ratelle, and among active players Mike Modano and Jeremey Roenick.

8. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

Ciccarelli was one of the best in the crease pests and would take an extraordinary amount of punishment to get his goals. He is also on the HFBoards banner with recent HOF enshrinee Patrick Roy, which is really saying something.

9. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?

Tim Kerr is arguably better, Glenn Anderson is better.

10. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an award? If not, how many times was he close?

He never won an MVP, and never had a season where he deserved it.

11. How many (post season) All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games or make this many post season All Star teams go into the Hall of Fame?

Dino played in 4 NHL All Star Games: 82, 83, 89, 97 but never made a post season All Star team.

12. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could reach the Finals?

No, since he never made the Finals when he was the best or arguably the best player on his team.

13. What impact did the player have on hockey history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?

Dino has the distinction of being the first NHL player to be convicted of assault for actions in a game, after slashing Luke Richardson in the head. He spent a night in jail.

14. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

The assault conviction in 1988 and an accusation of **** in 1990 (that was dimissed, but you can't unring that bell in some people's minds) leave a bad taste in the mouths of HOF voters. He also alledgedly had some altercations with media members after his retirement. If Dino gets in, he's not going to the "good guy" wing.

***********************************

I'm sure I overlooked some stuff, since Dino's prime was a little before my time. But that's pretty much it.

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07-04-2006, 03:41 PM
  #10
Big Phil
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The knock I have on Dino is a few things. No post season all-star teams, no Cups, and 600 goals is impressive the way I look at it is he scored them at a time when scoring was high. He only twice got 100 points in a season. Not bad but was he ever a top 10 player in the game? Even for one season? You could argue at least for a season or two Barber and Shutt were top 10 maybe even top 5 players in the game. But Dino? No. Maybe top 20 and that's pushing it.

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07-15-2006, 12:46 PM
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Leaf Lander
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was he a memorable player that attracted peopel to watch hockey


yes

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Old
07-15-2006, 08:30 PM
  #12
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Yes. 600 goals, come on.

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07-15-2006, 10:42 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlio lemieux View Post
Yes. 600 goals, come on.
He will get in but the criteria for the Hall SHOULD BE:


Was he one of the truly dominant players of his era?


That is clearly a no for Ciccarelli. Very good player but nowhere near one of the most dominant players in the game.

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07-15-2006, 10:57 PM
  #14
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They put Dick Duff in the HHOF. If he's in, Dino Ciccarelli belongs.

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07-17-2006, 02:49 PM
  #15
hrd2imagin
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As a Pens fan in the 90s, I heard the name Ciccarelli A LOT. I hated hearing his name. And he deserves to be in the HOF.

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07-21-2006, 08:21 PM
  #16
Fish on The Sand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niftyone View Post
No, he's an alltime really good not an alltime great
going by precedent, Dino should be in already.

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07-21-2006, 08:56 PM
  #17
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Based on his stats, of course he should be, compared to others in there anyhow.

But we all know, its not about Dino's goals, its about his office problems and 'stories' that keep him out of the HHOF.

Wrong or right, thats why he isn't in.

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Old
07-21-2006, 09:36 PM
  #18
tape-2-tape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule View Post
Dino might not get in for 5 or 10 years but he will get in.
I agree and his #'s don't lie. Let's not forget that he accumulated alot of his points on average and slightly above average teams with the exception of the North Stars, 80-81, 83-84, and Wings, 94-95 & 95-96.

REG SEASON STATS
GP G A TP
1232 608 592 1200

PLAYOFF STATS
GP G A TP
141 73 45 118

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