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Claude Lemieux v. Scott Stevens HHOF?

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Old
06-30-2006, 11:35 PM
  #26
Sens Rule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeffyuhTJRest
Tell that to anybody competing for the Stanley Cup. Don't hit as hard as you can, don't skate as fast as you can, shoot with 90% accuracy. A little above average is just fine.
I'm not saying you lay up on huge hits. I am saying you don't take out a defenceless guy with his head down. It only happens a few times a season where this occurs. Stevens sought these out and fully took advantage of the situation. He intended to serious injure the players he hit in this fashion and he was a good enough player for this to be calcualted and intentional. He may not have got a penalty, but he was headhunting and that shows little respect for the players he played against. You have to have some kind of sportsmanship. You shouldn't try to seriously injury other players. Especially when many of the injuries would be to the heads of the players.

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06-30-2006, 11:38 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
If you enjoyed this years Finals, it was clear that Stevens was everything that was wrong with the NHL for 10 years or more.
Or if you want to spin it another way, Stevens' personal game became the de rigueur style of play in the NHL for a decade.

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06-30-2006, 11:51 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule
I'm not saying you lay up on huge hits. I am saying you don't take out a defenceless guy with his head down. It only happens a few times a season where this occurs. Stevens sought these out and fully took advantage of the situation. He intended to serious injure the players he hit in this fashion and he was a good enough player for this to be calcualted and intentional. He may not have got a penalty, but he was headhunting and that shows little respect for the players he played against. You have to have some kind of sportsmanship. You shouldn't try to seriously injury other players. Especially when many of the injuries would be to the heads of the players.
Honestly, I don't think Scott Stevens ever intentinally tried to end a persons career. I think he saw big hits and took advantage of the opportunity. He just did it better than most.

His technique was perfect. Combine that with his muscle mass and yes, it was dangerous. He probably did go out there knowing if he hit a guy it could be an injury, but that's how you play the game.

For anybody to compare him to cheap-shot artists like Samuelsson and Hunter is beyond reproach. Injuries that were the result of Stevens hits were the product of an incredible athlete executing with precision. Injuries that came at the hands of Samuelsson and Hunter were the result of horrible sportsmanship.

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07-01-2006, 12:30 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle
A hall of famer ten times over Claude Lemieux; 20 times over Dick Duff.


Dick Duff>Claude Lemieux

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07-01-2006, 12:54 AM
  #30
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Of all the unintentional humor that appears on HF, nothing brings a smile to one's face quicker than to read Scott Stevens being decried as a dirty headhunter.

This thread is amusing.


Last edited by Trottier: 07-01-2006 at 01:01 AM.
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Old
07-01-2006, 09:43 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Of all the unintentional humor that appears on HF, nothing brings a smile to one's face quicker than to read Scott Stevens being decried as a dirty headhunter.

This thread is amusing.
Woudl you know? Denis Potvin was famous for going after knees and ending guys careers like Greg Sheppard's. I had no respect for that part of his game. Trottier crushed a defenceless Gainey and Andy Spruce once too.

Stevens hit on Lindros in the playoffs should have resulted in a Bertuzzi like penalty.
It was as gutless a hit as I ever saw.

Maybe you enjoyed it; but I enjoyed Lindros at the top of his game.

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07-01-2006, 11:43 AM
  #32
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Claude probably won't make it into the Hall, but if I was making a Cup run I'd take him over 80% of the guys in there.

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07-01-2006, 01:37 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Woudl you know? Denis Potvin was famous for going after knees and ending guys careers like Greg Sheppard's. I had no respect for that part of his game. Trottier crushed a defenceless Gainey and Andy Spruce once too.

Stevens hit on Lindros in the playoffs should have resulted in a Bertuzzi like penalty.
It was as gutless a hit as I ever saw.

Maybe you enjoyed it; but I enjoyed Lindros at the top of his game.
Gutless? It was a clean hit. Lindros should have known better than to come up the ice with his head down. At least now we know where your anti-Stevens bias comes from.

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07-01-2006, 01:56 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by JWINK19
Thank you, chooch, for posting the biggest load of crap I've read since I joined this board. Every one of those hits was clean. He hit with his shoulder, instead of using his elbows like Hatcher. As for his "boring" play, I gues you weren't around when he was putting up 60 and 70 point seasons. He became a defensive defenseman because that was the system the Devils played. Spare me the "media-made rep" garbage, because the media hates the Devils and doesn't promote them at all. Not that Lou would let them anyway. Finally, if you think Stevens was the problem with the NHL, maybe you should look again.
No, I think maybe YOU should look at yourself. Stevens' hits were NOT legal. It is illegal at ANY time to hit someone in the head (go read the NHL rule book...I'd post it if I had it in electronic form), whether it is with an elbow, shoulder, stick, hand, foot, etc. And Stevens DID hit with his elbows, just like Hatcher does. Watch the video of some of those hits again without you rose-colored glasses on, and you will see his hit on Kozlov was an elbow to the jaw; his hit on Lindros was a shoulder to the jaw that he had to nearly leave his feet to do. I would have loved to see what would have happened if Kasparitus would have ever hit Stevens like that! He'd be suspended for a year, I guess, and have to look out for hitmen chasing him!

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07-01-2006, 02:01 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Of all the unintentional humor that appears on HF, nothing brings a smile to one's face quicker than to read Scott Stevens being decried as a dirty headhunter.

This thread is amusing.
Yes, it IS funny to see people who supposedly "know hockey" not realize that Stevens was a dirty player!

He was much of what was wrong with the NHL for the past 10 or so years. Thuggery vs. skill. Speed vs. plodding plumber. Cross-checking to the back vs. hand skill in tying up forwards. Yes, this year's hockey showed that the game can STILL be great, if you are allowed to put the SKILL back in, and take out the garbage hits, slashes, trips, hooks, cross-checks, and just PLAY THE GAME.

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07-01-2006, 02:12 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
No, I think maybe YOU should look at yourself. Stevens' hits were NOT legal. It is illegal at ANY time to hit someone in the head (go read the NHL rule book...I'd post it if I had it in electronic form), whether it is with an elbow, shoulder, stick, hand, foot, etc. And Stevens DID hit with his elbows, just like Hatcher does. Watch the video of some of those hits again without you rose-colored glasses on, and you will see his hit on Kozlov was an elbow to the jaw; his hit on Lindros was a shoulder to the jaw that he had to nearly leave his feet to do. I would have loved to see what would have happened if Kasparitus would have ever hit Stevens like that! He'd be suspended for a year, I guess, and have to look out for hitmen chasing him!
Rose colored glasses? I think not. I'm not blind to cheapness on my team, as you'll notice I didn't claim that Claude was a clean player. I'm just so sick and tired of the anti-Stevens bias that pervades these forums. Every team that had a player hit by Stevens cries and cries about the utter lack of humanity. Maybe folks like yourself should take the anti-Devil blinders off and admit the truth. The hits were clean and you just wish your player was giving instead of receiving those hits. If you really want to see cheap shots, start with the Hatcher hit on Sykora in Game 6 of 2000. Or check any Bryan Marchment hit. Granted, Marchment's cheapness was knees instead of head, but you get the point.

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07-01-2006, 02:20 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Yes, it IS funny to see people who supposedly "know hockey" not realize that Stevens was a dirty player!
That, of course, includes NHL on-ice officials, executives, coaches and his peers (including those who ended up on the receiving end of his many hits).

What fools! Why weren't they whining about that big bad Scott Stevens all of those years?!

Must have had their eyes closed. Or buying into the "media myth".

Thanks for enlightening all of them. We'll forward the message!


Last edited by Trottier: 07-01-2006 at 02:42 PM.
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Old
07-01-2006, 02:20 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWINK19
Rose colored glasses? I think not. I'm not blind to cheapness on my team, as you'll notice I didn't claim that Claude was a clean player. I'm just so sick and tired of the anti-Stevens bias that pervades these forums. Every team that had a player hit by Stevens cries and cries about the utter lack of humanity. Maybe folks like yourself should take the anti-Devil blinders off and admit the truth. The hits were clean and you just wish your player was giving instead of receiving those hits. If you really want to see cheap shots, start with the Hatcher hit on Sykora in Game 6 of 2000. Or check any Bryan Marchment hit. Granted, Marchment's cheapness was knees instead of head, but you get the point.
I never said I had a player on a favorite team hit by Stevens. He had dirty hits against EVERY team in his time. And where did I say I didn't like the Devils? Granted, I really don't much, but if Stevens played for a team I liked, I would still not be a fan of his. Just like if Hatcher, Marchment or Kasperitus were on a team I liked. I hate ALL cheap hockey players, regardless of team affiliation.

BTW, Claude Lemieux was a cheap player. But he somehow got lucky enough to win some Cups with some great teams (Mtl., Colorado) and a very good one (Jersey). But he is NO Hall of Famer. Not by any stretch. Winning the Cup doesn't make you an automatic for that. If it did, Gilbert Dionne would have beaten brother Marcel in!

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Old
07-01-2006, 02:55 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
That, of course, includes NHL on-ice officials, executives, coaches and his peers (including those who ended up on the receiving end of his many hits).

What fools! Why weren't they whining about that big bad Scott Stevens all of those years?!

Must have had their eyes closed. Or buying into the "media myth".

Thanks for enlightening all of them. We'll forward the message!



Thank you.

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07-03-2006, 01:58 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch View Post
Scott Stevens got a lot of ink on the no name devils defence and was considered a clutch playoff performer during their frequent Cup runs. Other than that he was largely eclipsed during a long 80's90's career...
Your Gretzky-insanity has now spread to Scott Stevens? Un-freaking-believable!

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07-03-2006, 02:58 PM
  #41
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This is one of the dumbest threads ever started...

Scott Stevens is a lock for the Hall of Fame...

Top 5 -10 defenseman of all time...

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07-03-2006, 03:38 PM
  #42
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Claude will never make the HOF. his credentials are tenuos and everyone hates his guts. Maybe if he had played for Toronto.

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07-03-2006, 05:21 PM
  #43
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Stevens - 14 time NHL all star, of course he's going to the hall.


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07-05-2006, 02:50 PM
  #44
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Its funny how people think that Stevens legend started in the 2000 playoffs. I can remember back in '91 when Stevens was being considered the best hitter in the game. Sure he pasted Lindros, but remember Shane Willis and Francis in 2001? How about Kariya in 2003? Throw in the fact that he has a Conn Smythe Trophy, 3 Cups, and five post season all-stars and how can you not put him in the Hall? Would the Devils have won three Cups without him? No. Its very safe to say that had he not been around either one or two of those Cups wouldnt have been won. that says something.

As for Claude Lemieux I think he's had too many flash in the pan moments. Sure he was good in the '95 playoffs and about three others but he also did terrible in others as well. He is way below a point a game in the playoffs (158 points in 233g) and to tell you the truth he's no better in the regular season. A career high of 81 points? He'd better be Bob Gainey with those numbers.

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07-05-2006, 07:36 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseydevil View Post
This is one of the dumbest threads ever started...

Scott Stevens is a lock for the Hall of Fame...

Top 5 -10 defenseman of all time...

Scott Stevens is NOT EVEN REMOTELY a Top 5 all-time defenseman. That is some of the worst homerism I've ever seen.

But he was a fantastic player, the heart of multiple Cup teams (along with Daneyko as well), and a easy HOF lock.





But don't tell me for a minute he is Top 5 all-time. That's garbage.

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07-05-2006, 08:34 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by TransportedUpstater View Post
Scott Stevens is NOT EVEN REMOTELY a Top 5 all-time defenseman. That is some of the worst homerism I've ever seen.

But he was a fantastic player, the heart of multiple Cup teams (along with Daneyko as well), and a easy HOF lock.





But don't tell me for a minute he is Top 5 all-time. That's garbage.
I don't know if Stevens is a definitive top 5 defenceman even among his peers. Bourque, Coffey, Chelios and Lidstrom are clearly better overall than Stevens. Stevens, MacInnis, Pronger, Niedermeyer, Leetch are in a second tier. Stevens may have been the best of this second tier but he is definately not in with the D-Men on the first tier of his peers. And all of the D-Men in the 'second tier' have at least one Norris trophy which Stevens never won.

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07-06-2006, 03:27 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MeffyuhTJRest View Post
Scouts drool over "The Next Scott Stevens"

nobody is thinking about spending a top 5 pick on "The Next Claude Lemieux"
Tremendous post...agreed.

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07-06-2006, 03:30 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule View Post
I don't know if Stevens is a definitive top 5 defenceman even among his peers. Bourque, Coffey, Chelios and Lidstrom are clearly better overall than Stevens. Stevens, MacInnis, Pronger, Niedermeyer, Leetch are in a second tier. Stevens may have been the best of this second tier but he is definately not in with the D-Men on the first tier of his peers. And all of the D-Men in the 'second tier' have at least one Norris trophy which Stevens never won.
By contrast, awful post. Stevens can certainly be lumped in with the Bourque's and Chelios' of his time. As a previous poster mentioned, there's a reason scouts are looking for the next Scott Stevens and not the next Niklas Lidstrom....no knock on Lidstrom.

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Old
07-06-2006, 04:47 PM
  #49
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Personally i would have Scotty Stevens in the HHOF in about one second. He was one of the greatest leaders the sport of hockey. he was the ultimate Defenceman. He might not of put up the "numbers" that other d-man put up, not true, look at some of his numbers when he was with the Capitals, pretty good numbers considering he was also getting 150-200+ PIMS a season. The guy could do everyhting, PP, PK , evenstrength, fight the toughest guys in the League, when was the last time you saw Ray, or Paul get in a brawl, and protect his teammates. Almost never as far as i remember.
As for not winning a "major award" we won the MVP of the playoffs in the 2000 playoffs for playing remarkable defence, not just a couple....Clean hits( he was not penalized) in those playoffs he had players scared to come into the offensive sonze when he was on the ice. He also just lost the Norris to Ray by a simple ..4 votes or something and in my opinion he should have won.
I think that it is settled that Stevens should be in the HHOF Hands down!

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07-06-2006, 05:02 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by jiggs 10 View Post
Yes, it IS funny to see people who supposedly "know hockey" not realize that Stevens was a dirty player!

He was much of what was wrong with the NHL for the past 10 or so years. Thuggery vs. skill. Speed vs. plodding plumber. Cross-checking to the back vs. hand skill in tying up forwards. Yes, this year's hockey showed that the game can STILL be great, if you are allowed to put the SKILL back in, and take out the garbage hits, slashes, trips, hooks, cross-checks, and just PLAY THE GAME.
I agree... let the play that the NHL was known for SOOOO long go to waste. I mean lets make the players take off their padding, make them wear ballerina clothes, and let them dance all over the ice. IF the opposing players takes the puck into your zone let him score, because we don't want to hurt his feelings. Then at the end of the game regardless of score we can call it a draw so no one gets their feelings hurt. Then at the end of the regular season we name EVERYONE the stanley cup champions, then everyone is a winner.

Please, now with sarcasm aside, I think the game is getting weaker. If Stevens is a head hunter then I want more players like Stevens in the game. When Gretzky was playing there where FAR MORE feared hitters in the game. The game is a joke compared to the game back then. Players could actually take a hit back then, and get back to their feet. Old school hockey was a blood bath, and that's the hockey I miss. Brawls where happening all over the place, enforcers had a role on a team, and feared hitters where everywhere. Even with all the dirty players, and plays that where dirty, THAT NHL was more exciting, and generated more offense.

The league needs more players like Scott Stevens.

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