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Are Oiler fans hurting their team's chances?

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Old
06-30-2006, 06:19 PM
  #1
Danny__K
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Are Oiler fans hurting their team's chances?

With this Pronger frenzy, I am wondering how much the Oiler fans are hurting their chances of landing any big name UFAs anymore.

You look at how in the last year they have publically attacked players on their own team. Cross, Ulanov, Markannen, Morrison, Conklin, Peca all come to mind.

Now Pronger wants out of Edmonton and the fans are riping into him and his wife so bad that libel lawsuits have been threatened against the oilers for comments made on their message boards.

Simple question, is Oiler fans fanaticism going to hurt their teams chances in the future?

*edit* whoops forgot the obligatory.

Discuss!

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06-30-2006, 06:31 PM
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abracanada
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The feelings are running high which is understandable. If they can get a libel suit to stick from stuff written on message boards, good luck. I think McTavish hasn't helped the situation by scrapping with players like Peca during the year publicly. The Oil probably went as far as they did, because the players were pissed at MacT, and they wanted to prove a point. Oh, and the fact that so many of them were on the last year of a contract probably didn't hurt. Even if they manage to bring in some talent, I don't think the new players will be overjoyed going to Edmonton. All this stuff in the media. Big mistake - the PR nightmare may effect the club for years to come. They should have kept things quiet and one to one - not public.

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06-30-2006, 06:41 PM
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Danny__K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abracanada
If they can get a libel suit to stick from stuff written on message boards, good luck.
I am no legal expert but the oilers posted this on their message board

http://www.edmontonoilers.com/phpBB2...6fd3b5a789bd92

so they must think its real enough a threat.

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06-30-2006, 06:59 PM
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abracanada
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I am sure they don't want to find out.......lawyers cost money even if a suit is not successful. I am just saying I don't think they could pin the libel on the Oil. I am no lawyer either (maybe someone who reads on here is) but I think it would be hard to make it stick against the team.

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06-30-2006, 07:08 PM
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The Oilers will be fine. They seem to be a team that the eastern media likes to kick when down. Most of this comes from having success. Really nobody likes to see a small market team like the oilers do well thats why there getting ripped by guys lik Stracken and Mccowin.

Peca was a guy that didn't perform till the playoffs and the Oilers had no intention to bring him back, that obviously offended him so now he takes it out on the organization.

Theres lots of guys who bleed copper and blue (Ryan Smyth, Moreau, Pisani, Horcoff) but its not fashionable to talk about them right now.

With a GM like KLowe the Oil will be fine, but in the mean time it's fun to lay 'em the boots.

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06-30-2006, 07:15 PM
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abracanada
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Here is some stuff on libel and the internet bulletin boards. Looks like they could go after the people who write the stuff, but that would be through the ISP. Doesn't look like they have ever done it yet in Canada. Although it looks like the Oilers could not be held personally responsible, it opens them up to having to track fans down and stuff like that. Not a direction I suspect they would like to be involved in.



Canadian court issues ruling that may impose new limits on some on-line discussions; it unmasks several pseudonymous critics that attacked Ontario-based recycling company, Philip Services Corp, on Internet message board; while Philips Services has not yet sued for libel, it contends that it has been defamed by comments posted in finance forum on Yahoo; court ruled for company, ordering 12 Internet service providers to turn over names of subscribers who used aliases in expressing their often-vituperative opinions; at least one Internet service provider has complied with order

July 14, 1998 Technology News
MORE ON LIBEL AND SLANDER AND: COMPUTERS AND INFORMATION SYSTEMS, INTERNET AND WORLD WIDE WEB, SUITS AND LITIGATION, DECISIONS AND VERDICTS, PHILIP SERVICES CORP, YAHOO INC

It is old though, but I could not find any recent suits in Canada.

I should add, the above was courtesy of the NYTimes.com.


Last edited by abracanada: 06-30-2006 at 07:50 PM.
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Old
06-30-2006, 09:07 PM
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oiler fans should just suck it up and use pronger as an excuse for when they dont make the playoffs next year. with exception to the true oiler fans thats the game most of them play.

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06-30-2006, 09:23 PM
  #8
Fayne Gretzky
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Yeah, what if Kipprusoff all of a sudden said he wants a trade because he doesn't like Calgary or his wife doesn't or something. How would you feel? We're just mad because these guys are ripping our city and everyone's leaving, even though we know it's a great place to play hockey...for true hockey fans who listen to their heart more than their Californian wives or something.

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06-30-2006, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abracanada
All this stuff in the media. Big mistake - the PR nightmare may effect the club for years to come. They should have kept things quiet and one to one - not public.
Who is They?

The Prongers?
The Oilers Organization?
The Media?

In the end human nature has run its course. The press conference scheduled for Tuesday July 4, 2006 by Pronger should be the end of much of the speculation. I think its pretty easy to criticize Oiler fans who just happen to feel (...and maybe rightly so) that there has been no legitimate reason given for Pronger's departure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extinguisher
Yeah, what if Kipprusoff all of a sudden said he wants a trade because he doesn't like Calgary or his wife doesn't or something. How would you feel?
I think this is exactly right. Imagine if after the Flames cup run, Kiprusoff had requested the same thing. Not only that, his request came through a 3rd party (agent) without much of a reason being given.

I understand the fine line between the fan's right to know and the rights that players have with respect to their personal lives. I get it. But I believe that much of the venom towards the Prongers could have simply been avoided if his agent (Pat Morris) would have suggested holding a press conference to announce this instead of leaving speculation to spread like wild fire.

Maybe that's too much to ask of an agent. Maybe this whole situation should be a lesson for other teams/players/communities to come up with a different solution when coming out with a difficult announcement.

The Pronger press conference is too late. It will placate some I suppose, but it really ought to have been much sooner. I have some reservation in saying this, but I think it would have prevented the names of others being dragged through the mud along with the Prongers. It's too bad it's come to this, but major Kudos goes to Chris Pronger for finally holding a press conference to clear the air.

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06-30-2006, 11:12 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny__K
With this Pronger frenzy, I am wondering how much the Oiler fans are hurting their chances of landing any big name UFAs anymore.

You look at how in the last year they have publically attacked players on their own team. Cross, Ulanov, Markannen, Morrison, Conklin, Peca all come to mind.

Now Pronger wants out of Edmonton and the fans are riping into him and his wife so bad that libel lawsuits have been threatened against the oilers for comments made on their message boards.

Simple question, is Oiler fans fanaticism going to hurt their teams chances in the future?

*edit* whoops forgot the obligatory.

Discuss!
I doubt it. Just look at Vancouver. They trash their own players all the time. There was that stupid rumor just this year that the "real" reason Cloutier was injured was because he crashed his car into some guy. Just totally ridiculous stuff.

Any player that comes to Canada knows that he'll get trashed by the fans if he underperforms (Iginla anyone?).

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07-01-2006, 12:09 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natural420
oiler fans should just suck it up and use pronger as an excuse for when they dont make the playoffs next year. with exception to the true oiler fans thats the game most of them play.
Stick it where the sun don't shine. Pray and hope to whatever you worship that kiprusof doesn't get injured. Because of people like you, I'll be doing the opposite.

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Old
07-01-2006, 02:43 AM
  #12
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I don't think the fans had anything to do with Pronger leaving. We hopefully will know the the real reasoning behind it tomorrow.

Peca wants to go back east and play out his career. I think its just his personal choice, and has nothing to do with the fans.

The Oilers left Dvorak. My theory is that he wouldn't take a pay cut, and the Oilers really need to make room for some new, younger prospects. I think he had worn out his welcome, and it was just time for him to move on. The fans could have been a factor in this one, because he had a pretty disappointing season, and there were more than a few unhappy fans.

If Laraque wants to sign in Edmonton, he will have to take a significant pay cut. With that pay cut, his role would be reduced to 13th forward, and he would probably only play 40 games during the season. At this point, his roster position is better spent with a rookie. A two year 1.5M contract with a no trade clause would be the maximum I would think the Oilers could offer. Laraque is a fan favorite, and I am certain the fans had nothing to do with his departure (if he does end up leaving).

It's all about $ with Spacek, Tarnstrom, Samsonov, and Roloson, and is by no meens the fault of the fans. If the Oilers could give Spacek $3.33M, Tarnstrom $1.6M, Samsonov $4M, and Roloson $3.5M, I think they would all probably stay with the Oilers. The Oilers are on a budget, with quite a few big raises to dish out. I would be surprised if more than 2, and less than 1 of them is signed.

Attracting UFA's to Edmonton has proven quite difficult. Location is a huge factor for a lot of players, and I can't say I blame them. Mike Comrie said it was like playing in a "fish bowl", after he knew he was out the door. I think the majority of Oiler players generally like the fans, and has little to no bearing on if players choose to leave, or players not wanting to go to Edmonton.

The Flames wouldn't happen to have a few spare Edmonton born players kicking around, would they? Why don't you send them on up.

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Old
07-01-2006, 08:01 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
Stick it where the sun don't shine. Pray and hope to whatever you worship that kiprusof doesn't get injured. Because of people like you, I'll be doing the opposite.
haha. jealous?? geez dont get personal your just proving my point. SOME of you guys whine the entire playoffs cause there was a flu going around or the refs dont like the oilers or rolosons hurt. blah blah blah. dont get all touchy. calgary has the best defence in the league which compliments the best goalie. give us another goalie (like roloson for example) we still have the best d in the league, and still should finnish ahead of edmonton in the northwest. so dont play that your nothing without kiprusoff game. its getting tired.

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07-04-2006, 01:22 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
The feelings are running high which is understandable. If they can get a libel suit to stick from stuff written on message boards, good luck. I think McTavish hasn't helped the situation by scrapping with players like Peca during the year publicly. The Oil probably went as far as they did, because the players were pissed at MacT, and they wanted to prove a point. Oh, and the fact that so many of them were on the last year of a contract probably didn't hurt. Even if they manage to bring in some talent, I don't think the new players will be overjoyed going to Edmonton. All this stuff in the media. Big mistake - the PR nightmare may effect the club for years to come. They should have kept things quiet and one to one - not public.
You are right about the libel suits, it's a fairly empty threat. The threats did not come from the Pronger's though, they came from a certain tv personality - who said the same on her website.

I don't know where you heard about MacT scrapping with anyone. He is probably the most diplomatic coach in the league. Peca did have a few indirect comments about coaching, but MacT went out of his way to take some blame for Peca's mediocre regular season, and he called Peca's play "perfect" in the playoffs more than once. I find it hard to believe that players will come within one game of the SC because they hate the coach, but I guess you guys would know. If he was hated by the players it is a surprise to me, and I follow them pretty closely. If anything, MacT is too much of a "player's coach". You should have seen the way Sather used to rip Coffey and Kurri all the time.

As for keeping it quiet, you appear to be out of the reach of major media. Pronger's group leaked it the trade demand to various media outlets(Strachen, Strickland) and then Pronger's agent phoned the Edmonton Journal and confirmed the demand. The Oilers certainly did not make the noise, Pronger did.

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Old
07-04-2006, 01:38 AM
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abracanada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Whole View Post
You are right about the libel suits, it's a fairly empty threat. The threats did not come from the Pronger's though, they came from a certain tv personality - who said the same on her website.

I don't know where you heard about MacT scrapping with anyone. He is probably the most diplomatic coach in the league. Peca did have a few indirect comments about coaching, but MacT went out of his way to take some blame for Peca's mediocre regular season, and he called Peca's play "perfect" in the playoffs more than once. I find it hard to believe that players will come within one game of the SC because they hate the coach, but I guess you guys would know. If he was hated by the players it is a surprise to me, and I follow them pretty closely. If anything, MacT is too much of a "player's coach". You should have seen the way Sather used to rip Coffey and Kurri all the time.

As for keeping it quiet, you appear to be out of the reach of major media. Pronger's group leaked it the trade demand to various media outlets(Strachen, Strickland) and then Pronger's agent phoned the Edmonton Journal and confirmed the demand. The Oilers certainly did not make the noise, Pronger did.
IIRC, Mr. Peca had something quite public going with MacT. He was criticizing in the press around Christmas time. Now I may be wrong and MacT did not retaliate, but the problems have been fairly well publicized. Needless to say, there has been more going on than we, the public, are privy too. Even Pronger was not satisfied and the Oilers new about it, halfway through the year.

Something you seem to have wrong, is the way the players feel about Sutter. They have a lot of respect for him. He is hard assed but as fair as they come. He is a players coach in his own right. Players want to come to Calgary man, they aren't afraid of him or hate him.

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07-04-2006, 02:38 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
IIRC, Mr. Peca had something quite public going with MacT. He was criticizing in the press around Christmas time. Now I may be wrong and MacT did not retaliate, but the problems have been fairly well publicized. Needless to say, there has been more going on than we, the public, are privy too. Even Pronger was not satisfied and the Oilers new about it, halfway through the year.

Something you seem to have wrong, is the way the players feel about Sutter. They have a lot of respect for him. He is hard assed but as fair as they come. He is a players coach in his own right. Players want to come to Calgary man, they aren't afraid of him or hate him.

It was pretty obvious that Peca never fit in with the Oilers and didn't live up to expectations. I always liked his intensity, when he brings it, but I think he does lack a little in the character department. He played himself onto the 4th line after getting plenty of chances with the top lines and he had the nerve to complain about his role last week. He should have paid back 3 million of his salary out of guilt. Peca's public comments came around the time of the trade deadline, during the last series in Vancouver, not Christmas. If you can find anything earlier I would like to see it.

The Pronger mess had nothing to do with the Oilers, if we are to believe Pronger himself. I never saw anything about him ever being critical of the team or coach.

I added the smilie to my joke about Sutter, maybe you missed it? Sutter is as direct as they come, but I would never seriously suggest that a team tried hard to win to spite their coach. If you hate a coach, wouldn't you tank to get rid of him, instead of earning him a new contract? It was meant as a sarcastic response to the suggestion that you made about MacT.

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07-04-2006, 03:11 AM
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Well, even though Peca obviously didn't and still doesnt get along with MacT, he played his heart out in the playoffs. Sometimes there are other reasons for the way a person plays. For example, Peca may have played his heart out because he new he stunk during the year and it was his last chance gto prove he was worth a big payday. Things are rarely black and white. Motives are a funny thing. We need to know what is motivating a person before we can understand.

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07-04-2006, 11:06 AM
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Rudolf Yaber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny__K View Post
With this Pronger frenzy, I am wondering how much the Oiler fans are hurting their chances of landing any big name UFAs anymore.

You look at how in the last year they have publically attacked players on their own team. Cross, Ulanov, Markannen, Morrison, Conklin, Peca all come to mind.

Now Pronger wants out of Edmonton and the fans are riping into him and his wife so bad that libel lawsuits have been threatened against the oilers for comments made on their message boards.

Simple question, is Oiler fans fanaticism going to hurt their teams chances in the future?

*edit* whoops forgot the obligatory.

Discuss!
I don't know if it will affect the team in the future. But it really puts a black eye on the city. I live here and I was embarrassed periodically throughout the year by the way Oilers' fans treated their players. Cross comes to mind foremost; he played his university career here and was apparently thrilled to come back to Edmonton. At the time he was traded he was thrilled to be gone, and I don't blame him. No one deserves the kind of blatant, public criticism he got in Edmonton. People would brag about ripping into him in public. Sickening.

Like I said, I don't know if it will affect the team. But our image as a city, I think it definitely has an impact. Unfortunately, those that are dishing out the attacks probably don't care much about their city's image; as long as their team makes the playoffs, right?

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Old
07-08-2006, 03:02 PM
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yaaaaaaaaawnnnnnnnnnnn

Such a scary threat lol

Who is ever is the man behind the madness should realize is that a player is breaking a legal contract because of whatever reason and ruining a team's blueprints for the next four years. Fact remains is Pronger did something he shouldn't have. Forget about who, what, where, why and when. He screwed up and now is requesting to be moved at the expense of an entire organization. May have been a little different reaction if this was year 4 of 5 but the first year was just completed. I would be livid if I was an Oil fan.

Honestly, let us all be realsitic, does anyone on here actually think they are going to hire lawyers and hunt down posters on a blog site creating more media attention towards Pronger? I am sure Pronger wants to be out of the spotlight and attacking his former fans is probably not the best way to go about it.

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07-08-2006, 04:19 PM
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haha. jealous?? geez dont get personal your just proving my point. SOME of you guys whine the entire playoffs cause there was a flu going around or the refs dont like the oilers or rolosons hurt. blah blah blah. dont get all touchy. calgary has the best defence in the league which compliments the best goalie. give us another goalie (like roloson for example) we still have the best d in the league, and still should finnish ahead of edmonton in the northwest. so dont play that your nothing without kiprusoff game. its getting tired.
Your D is highly overrated. Your coach's system and your goalie are not however - those are the two factors that make the Flames' D look so great. Im not baiting - its a fact. They play a tight disciplined system in front of one of the best tender in the league. Thats why guys like Hamrlik, Marchment, Zyuzin suddenly look like all-stars.

Oiler fans have a right to be bitter. No one is complaining that Peca left - we all knew he was going to. Spacek leaving was devastating only because of the state of our D in the wake of Pronger leaving. The Pronger situation was a collective kick in the junk to fans and to suggest that we should simply suck it up and accept it is ridiculous. Our D is in shatters and there is every right to be mad at Pronger and his princess of a wife.

Best of luck to the Flames next season. The addition of Tanguay might mean your team can actually score. Increased scoring combined with your goaltending and D should make you Cup contenders right from the beginning of the year. Hope to see you in the playoffs.

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07-08-2006, 04:32 PM
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Thats why guys like Hamrlik, Marchment, Zyuzin suddenly look like all-stars.
I hope Zyuzin suddenly looks like an all star. As for Hamrlik, an Oiler fan should know what they are getting from him, he is a legitimate top pairing defenseman when he's on top of his game like he was through the middle portion of this year, before he got hurt.

That said, I think the Flames D is highly thought of because Regehr is a stud, considering he is now a member of team Canada's blueline and Phaneuf will absolutely be the same soon enough, if he isn't already, thats why Calgary's blueline is highly thought of, they have two fairly young studs and a nice mix of older guys with solid depth.

Contrary to popular belief, it is possible for the Flames to have a good defense and a good goalie, infact I would venture to say they wouldn't be the first team to do it.

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07-08-2006, 04:44 PM
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abracanada
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Your D is highly overrated. Your coach's system and your goalie are not however - those are the two factors that make the Flames' D look so great. Im not baiting - its a fact. They play a tight disciplined system in front of one of the best tender in the league. Thats why guys like Hamrlik, Marchment, Zyuzin suddenly look like all-stars.

Oiler fans have a right to be bitter. No one is complaining that Peca left - we all knew he was going to. Spacek leaving was devastating only because of the state of our D in the wake of Pronger leaving. The Pronger situation was a collective kick in the junk to fans and to suggest that we should simply suck it up and accept it is ridiculous. Our D is in shatters and there is every right to be mad at Pronger and his princess of a wife.

Best of luck to the Flames next season. The addition of Tanguay might mean your team can actually score. Increased scoring combined with your goaltending and D should make you Cup contenders right from the beginning of the year. Hope to see you in the playoffs.


Well if system and goaltending trumps talent, there should be no problem in Edmonton then. We know MacT can figure his way around the trap, and that Rollie did a good job in the playoffs. So whats the need to be bitter?

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07-08-2006, 04:44 PM
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I hope Zyuzin suddenly looks like an all star. As for Hamrlik, an Oiler fan should know what they are getting from him, he is a legitimate top pairing defenseman when he's on top of his game like he was through the middle portion of this year, before he got hurt.

That said, I think the Flames D is highly thought of because Regehr is a stud, considering he is now a member of team Canada's blueline and Phaneuf will absolutely be the same soon enough, if he isn't already, thats why Calgary's blueline is highly thought of, they have two fairly young studs and a nice mix of older guys with solid depth.

Contrary to popular belief, it is possible for the Flames to have a good defense and a good goalie, infact I would venture to say they wouldn't be the first team to do it.
No doubt Reghr and Phaneuf are studs. Hammer is a differnt story - I was never a huge fan.

Teams can have great D and great goalies. IMO - Kipper still makes your D shine like gold. He played 74 games this year - only Luongo and Brodeur matched that. The games Sauve and Boucher started were (and I think you'll agree) usually brutal for the Flames. Sauve was 3-3 and Boucher was 1-2. Both had GAA well above 3.00 and SV% well below .900. Those guys are not exactly Vezina material, but they are still talented, experienced tenders. Where was the Flames' D when those guys played? Based on the # of games your backups played and the #'s they put up when they did, you have to question how much the team lives and dies with Kipper. This is coming from someone who tries to avoid wathcing the Flames play unless its against the Oil, so I might be way off base. Just my interpretation

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07-08-2006, 04:54 PM
  #24
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Well if system and goaltending trumps talent, there should be no problem in Edmonton then. We know MacT can figure his way around the trap, and that Rollie did a good job in the playoffs. So whats the need to be bitter?
I didnt discount talent completely. There is no denying that Phaneuf and Reghr are great - Id kill for either of them especially given Edmonton's current situation. I just think Kipper and the entire team's commitment to D are fantastic and are what makes the Flames top-six look great.

Id be fine with Edmonton's lack of a legit #1 D if I thought our forwards could be as discplined defensively as Calgary's, but I dont see that happening. Without a guy that can log 25 minutes of solid D on the backend, it is going to be a long season for us. Thats why Im bitter. My bitterness has nothing to do with the Flames - please dont flatter yourself.

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07-08-2006, 05:26 PM
  #25
abracanada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44prongs View Post
I didnt discount talent completely. There is no denying that Phaneuf and Reghr are great - Id kill for either of them especially given Edmonton's current situation. I just think Kipper and the entire team's commitment to D are fantastic and are what makes the Flames top-six look great.

Id be fine with Edmonton's lack of a legit #1 D if I thought our forwards could be as discplined defensively as Calgary's, but I dont see that happening. Without a guy that can log 25 minutes of solid D on the backend, it is going to be a long season for us. Thats why Im bitter. My bitterness has nothing to do with the Flames - please dont flatter yourself.

I didn't think you were bitter at the Flames or their fans. We had nothing to do with what went on in Edmonton. However, does the fact that the forwards backcheck clear the front of the net? Do the defensive forwards keep the opposing forwards to the outside and keep them off the goalies back? I would have to question anyone who thought you can end up with the best defensive record in the league without a little depth on defence. As a matter of fact, when you are talking about that 25 minute per game defenceman, the Flames didn't have any. Not one. One of the reasons for their success was because of that depth. I just take exception to having the teams defence written off. Even writing off Hamrlik shows that you have not seen much of the Flames play over the year. He has a lot to do with Phaneuf's success. I even think he gave up chances himself to help Phaneuf succeed. I am not worried about the Flames defensive depth at all. A talented and tough group. No superstars there, yet.

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