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Vanek or Michalek

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Old
11-10-2003, 12:10 PM
  #26
jiggs 10
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Michalek, easily. Vanek is the LAZIEST player I've seen in quite some time, as he proved once again this past weekend. A complete non-factor in the 2 biggest games of the early season for the Gophers. 3 shots on goal in 2 games? 2 of them from outside the blue line? THIS from "the best college player"? He isn't even in the top 5. He has tremendous POTENTIAL. He may never reach it, or maybe the college game just isn't for him. He is a great 3rd period scorer because he doesn't break a sweat in the first 2 periods. He may not in the 3rd, either.

Think a lesser Ilya Kovalchuk, who doesn't hustle at all. THAT'S Thomas Vanek.

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11-10-2003, 12:25 PM
  #27
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I guess it all comes down to wether you want a player who, in his first month in the NHL, seriously injured his knee, or a collegiate scoring God who can be lazy at times but is the definition of a big-time scorer. Seems pretty easy to me.

http://www.gopherpucklive.com/video/10-24-03-UMD.mpg

 
Old
11-10-2003, 12:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by jiggs 10
THIS from "the best college player"? He isn't even in the top 5..
Oh good God we have a homer here.

Ask ANY collegiate coach, NHL scout, anyone with credibility and they'll all tell you he is a definite candidate, if not lock, for the Hobey this year.

Judging from your post, you're basing your comments on three games. Three games in a season where the entire Gophers' team has played uninspired bad hockey. Why don't you take a look at what he did last year scoring a number of huge goals include the biggest collegiate goal of the entire year, the NCAA game winner. Expect Vanek, and the entire Minnesota team to improve dramatically.

 
Old
11-10-2003, 01:19 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillToronto
I guess it all comes down to wether you want a player who, in his first month in the NHL, seriously injured his knee, or a collegiate scoring God who can be lazy at times but is the definition of a big-time scorer. Seems pretty easy to me.

http://www.gopherpucklive.com/video/10-24-03-UMD.mpg
Since we are on the topic of homers...

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Old
11-10-2003, 01:24 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SJSharksFan
Since we are on the topic of homers...
Wow, what a thoughtful remark from a newbie. I'm hurt.

Way to come into the boards with such a well drawn out reply.

 
Old
11-10-2003, 01:54 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillToronto
Wow, what a thoughtful remark from a newbie. I'm hurt.

Way to come into the boards with such a well drawn out reply.
That one hurt

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Old
11-10-2003, 01:57 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillToronto
Wow, what a thoughtful remark from a newbie. I'm hurt.

Way to come into the boards with such a well drawn out reply.
He joined 10 months before you.

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Old
11-10-2003, 02:05 PM
  #33
jiggs 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillToronto
Oh good God we have a homer here.

Ask ANY collegiate coach, NHL scout, anyone with credibility and they'll all tell you he is a definite candidate, if not lock, for the Hobey this year.

Judging from your post, you're basing your comments on three games. Three games in a season where the entire Gophers' team has played uninspired bad hockey. Why don't you take a look at what he did last year scoring a number of huge goals include the biggest collegiate goal of the entire year, the NCAA game winner. Expect Vanek, and the entire Minnesota team to improve dramatically.
Yet YOU'RE not a homer? 2 WCHA coaches alone don't think Vanek is a top 10 draft pick. I'll let YOU figure out who they are. Hint: they are both from Minnesota.

And I did see him play about 30 games last year. Which is why I'm NOT impressed with him. Yes, he scored those 2 goals in the playoffs. They were good goals. But Senja was a MUCH better player last year, as was Kunitz. Yes, Parise is the better player, too, (homer call) but Vanek scored those 2 goals, so every one remembers his name.

I agree (and posted such in the NCAA section) that the Gophers will improve when they are healthy. Whether they have enough to overcome this hole they are in will depend on their goaltending.

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Old
11-10-2003, 02:15 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Daddy
So what say you about his supposed laziness (aka brendl-itis)?
Overblown.

Vanek is the type of player who saves the best for last. He saves up his energy and delivers in clutch situations. Great players do this. Now this is not to say that he does nothing for the rest of the game, it's just that he has certain inconsistent qualties, which are expected from young guys. But it's the gamebreaking qualities that separate him from the rest.

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Old
11-10-2003, 02:30 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillToronto
I guess it all comes down to wether you want a player who, in his first month in the NHL, seriously injured his knee, or a collegiate scoring God who can be lazy at times but is the definition of a big-time scorer. Seems pretty easy to me.
Christ, I love your descriptions of both players. Let's try this for Michalek...an 18 year old whose two-way game, ability to "stickhandle in a phone booth" (quote courtesy of Mike Ricci), and maturity was able to unseat a seasoned NHL warrior, Harvey aka the only million dollar player in the AHL. That's closer to the praise you gave to yer buddy Vanek.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillToronto
Oh good God we have a homer here.
We sure do!!

By the way, I'd take Michalek but if there was one guy I'd rather have in that draft (ok Fluery makes it two guys), its Vanek.

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Old
11-10-2003, 02:33 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillToronto
Wow, what a thoughtful remark from a newbie. I'm hurt.

Way to come into the boards with such a well drawn out reply.
Hmmm judgin by the registration date of the both of ya, looks like yer the newbie. He's actual a pretty good poster...remember quantity doesnt equal quality.

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Old
11-10-2003, 02:40 PM
  #37
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I have to agree with most of the others here. What I have seen of Vanek is an inconsistant, 'Dominate when I want to' sort of player. Honestly, he looks exactly like Fedor Fedorov does in the AHL, but 3 or 4 years younger.

Vanek needs to commit himself more to the game, or he's going nowhere. He's got more potential than Michalek, but I am really doubting he digs down and manages to get at it.

From what I saw of Michalek (only one game) he's got a LOT of hustle! I really liked his game.

As for now, Michalek when he comes back from injury. Down the line? Unless Vanek completely changes his approach to the game, Michalek again.

I also have to agree here with the others, KillToronto, you are being a huge homer here on this one. To ignore Vanek's laziness just speaks volumes about not seeing this guy play. Just because he's Sabres property doesn't mean he's not fair game to criticize.

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Old
11-10-2003, 05:41 PM
  #38
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I truely believe Vaneks laziness is giong to catch up with him. You can be lazy and do good in College. NHL is a different story.

I'll take the 6-2 220 physical speciman with the excelent speed and acceleration and agility. With the Two way game Selke trophy winners are made of, with a nice shot that needs to be used more, who also happens to be one of the most creative playmakers i've seen at such a young age, with deft stickhandling. PLUS HE HUSTLES his ass of.


Great players save there energy? Dumbest quote i've seen on these message boards outside of one of my post lol.

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Old
11-11-2003, 06:35 AM
  #39
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People called Heatley the same thing, lazy only plays when he wants to etc... So if Vanek falls into the Heatley calibur of an NHL player i will be allright with that. Simular size and skill.

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11-11-2003, 09:18 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Gopher
People called Heatley the same thing, lazy only plays when he wants to etc... So if Vanek falls into the Heatley calibur of an NHL player i will be allright with that. Simular size and skill.
People call Heatley lazy? Since when?

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11-11-2003, 10:52 AM
  #41
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When he was in the NCAA, he took lots of plays off. Only played when he had the puck. He put up his points and when the copetition stepped up so did he. And he started off slow his soph year too, with no Reinprecht he looked bad at times.

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Old
11-11-2003, 11:53 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Mizral
I also have to agree here with the others, KillToronto, you are being a huge homer here on this one. To ignore Vanek's laziness just speaks volumes about not seeing this guy play. Just because he's Sabres property doesn't mean he's not fair game to criticize.
I have never seen this guy play? Actually I went to the Frozen Four last year and saw him in every game he played in plus I've seen video of him online and on tv. I never said it wasn't fair to criticize him, go ahead. But don't call me a homer until he comes into the NHL and fails. Which he won't. Just because he's lazy in a league that he dominates doesn't mean a whole lot. Maybe it'll be the same way in the NHL, maybe it won't. I guess we won't know for a few years. All I know is, I'm damn glad we took him over Michalek.

 
Old
11-11-2003, 11:56 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Patty Ice XXX
Christ, I love your descriptions of both players. Let's try this for Michalek...an 18 year old whose two-way game, ability to "stickhandle in a phone booth" (quote courtesy of Mike Ricci), and maturity was able to unseat a seasoned NHL warrior, Harvey aka the only million dollar player in the AHL. That's closer to the praise you gave to yer buddy Vanek.
That doesn't make him less injury prone. Both players have been highly praised and had Vanek signed this year he undoubtedly would have unseated an NHL veteran from a spot on Buffalo's roster. Point is, they're both highly praised, but Vanek doesn't have a major knee injury which he sustained in his first month in NHL play.

 
Old
11-11-2003, 12:06 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillToronto
That doesn't make him less injury prone. Both players have been highly praised and had Vanek signed this year he undoubtedly would have unseated an NHL veteran from a spot on Buffalo's roster. Point is, they're both highly praised, but Vanek doesn't have a major knee injury which he sustained in his first month in NHL play.

So now Milan is injury-prone? Guess what...same thing happened to Hossa (though he was in his final year of junior I believe)...consider him injury-prone? I got news for you, every player is one bad hit away from a major injury. Let the guy comeback from it and see how he reacts before you start throwin out that label.

Fact is that, while Vanek has higher offensive upside, Michalek was/is playin in the NHL this year for a team that didnt necessarily need him in the line-up. Thats says volumes concerning the development of the two.

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Old
11-11-2003, 12:07 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by jiggs 10
(homer call) but Vanek scored those 2 goals, so every one remembers his name.
Vanek is not known league-wide as a clutch goal scorer because of two goals. Last year, 17 of his 31 goals came in the third period or overtime; he led his team with five game-winning goals, and two game-tying goals,
plus he had three game-winning goals in the postseason. Sure, Sejna had some big goals, more game winners than Vanek, but Vanek did this all as a freshman who had never played the college game before. Sejna was a junior.

 
Old
11-11-2003, 12:09 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Patty Ice XXX
Fact is that, while Vanek has higher offensive upside, Michalek was/is playin in the NHL this year for a team that didnt necessarily need him in the line-up. Thats says volumes concerning the development of the two.
Actually that doesn't say crap about the development of the players. The Sabres chose to let Vanek play in college to give him another shot at a championship, to give him more confidence and experience. If Vanek would have begged Buffalo to sign him, they might have agreed, and Vanek would be here, and because he is tougher than Michalek, he probably wouldn't have gotten seriously hurt in his first month in the league.

 
Old
11-11-2003, 12:24 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillToronto
If Vanek would have begged Buffalo to sign him, they might have agreed, and Vanek would be here, and because he is tougher than Michalek, he probably wouldn't have gotten seriously hurt in his first month in the league.
Wow, you really don't know what you're talkin about do you? I didn't know one could be so flexible.

Please enlighten me on how you know for a fact that Vanek, a KID playin against other KIDS, is tougher than Michalek, a KID who was playin in a MEN'S league in Europe as well as the best league in the world. Oh, wait I must be forgettin that yer friggin' Nostradamus with that "wouldn't have gotten seriously hurt in his first month in the league" brilliant comment.

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Old
11-11-2003, 12:29 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Patty Ice XXX
Fact is that, while Vanek has higher offensive upside, Michalek was/is playin in the NHL this year for a team that didnt necessarily need him in the line-up. Thats says volumes concerning the development of the two.
Give me strength.
You may like Michalek better but dont try to suggest there has been any difference in their development from draft day to today on any basis, but certainly not something as inane as the fact that he is/was playing for the sad sack Sharks. . Thats simply stupid. Vanek couldnt even go to the Sabre camp cause he was going back to college. I guess Michaleks,Horton, Staal..etc are all developing much better than guys that didnt even go to camp (see Suter, Parise, Vanek, Zherdev). Yeah, ok.
Ridiculous comment.

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11-11-2003, 12:35 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Patty Ice XXX
Wow, you really don't know what you're talkin about do you? I didn't know one could be so flexible.

Please enlighten me on how you know for a fact that Vanek, a KID playin against other KIDS, is tougher than Michalek, a KID who was playin in a MEN'S league in Europe as well as the best league in the world. Oh, wait I must be forgettin that yer friggin' Nostradamus with that "wouldn't have gotten seriously hurt in his first month in the league" brilliant comment.
Europe is not North America. How many league-wide NHL tough guys have come out of the Czech Republic? None. I'm not going to say that the Czech leagues are softer than US College leagues because I don't know if they are. But US College leagues are not for girls.

Some quotes from Twincities.com earlier this month indicate Vanek is developing a mean streak and is begining to use his size to barrel through teams:

'Two goals 19 seconds apart early in the first period indicated how Minnesota planned to attack the opposing net. Later in the period, the Gophers confirmed it when sophomore forward Thomas Vanek barreled into Denver goalie Adam Berkhoel.

He led both teams with six shots on net Saturday night but flirted with a misconduct penalty late in the third period. Sent to the penalty box for high sticking, Vanek slammed the door, threw his gloves against the glass, yelled at referee Todd Anderson and tried to squirt a water bottle in Anderson's direction.'

Quotes from Hockey's Future:

"Michalek does not shoot often enough and needs be more willing to use his size and drive to the net and battle around the crease."

 
Old
11-11-2003, 12:36 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Sammy
Give me strength.
You may like Michalek better but dont try to suggest there has been any difference in their development from draft day to today on any basis, but certainly not something as inane as the fact that he is/was playing for the sad sack Sharks. . Thats simply stupid. Vanek couldnt even go to the Sabre camp cause he was going back to college. I guess Michaleks,Horton, Staal..etc are all developing much better than guys that didnt even go to camp (see Suter, Parise, Vanek, Zherdev). Yeah, ok.
Ridiculous comment.
Exactly. I'm glad you noticed this nonsense post as well.

 
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