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06-30-2006, 05:45 PM
  #1
Frank Nitty
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Worried about Pitkanen

With every day passing and seeing Pitkanen not signed it makes me more worried that some team will sign him to an offer sheet. He fits the new NHL perfectly and I can see some team throwing 4-5 mil at him knowing we are in tight against the cap.

If this were to happen, there is no way Clarke can let him walk. He will be forced to clear space...ie Hatcher or Rathje to come up with the cap space.

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06-30-2006, 05:50 PM
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Question: Not sure how it works. If someone offers him 5m, and Clarke doesn't match it, does the other team have to give us something like a bunch of picks? Or is the the other way around where if we do match it, we have to give them picks? How does it work and what picks would we/they get?

Sorry for the hijack but this falls into the idea of this post with Pitkanen.

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06-30-2006, 05:53 PM
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pit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab79
Question: Not sure how it works. If someone offers him 5m, and Clarke doesn't match it, does the other team have to give us something like a bunch of picks? Or is the the other way around where if we do match it, we have to give them picks? How does it work and what picks would we/they get?

Sorry for the hijack but this falls into the idea of this post with Pitkanen.
If another teams offers, we don't counter and Pit takes it, we get pick compensation.

If we match, we just have the contract. No picks the other way.

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06-30-2006, 05:55 PM
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Frank Nitty
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the compensation is a follows depending on the amount of the contract.

$660,000 or below - No compensation
Over $660,000 to $1 million - Third Round
Over $1 million to $2.0 million -Second Round
Over $2.0 million to $3.0 million - First Round and Third Round
Over $3.0 million to $4.0 million - First Round, Second Round, and Third Round
Over $4.0 million to $5.0 million -Two First Rounds, Second Round, and Third Round
Over $5 million - Four First Rounds


Regardless we would have to match or our d would be crippled.

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06-30-2006, 06:03 PM
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dedalus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Nitty
With every day passing and seeing Pitkanen not signed it makes me more worried that some team will sign him to an offer sheet. He fits the new NHL perfectly and I can see some team throwing 4-5 mil at him knowing we are in tight against the cap.

If this were to happen, there is no way Clarke can let him walk. He will be forced to clear space...ie Hatcher or Rathje to come up with the cap space.
It's not worth worrying about. I'm pretty certain it's only happened twice (Rangers/Sakic and Flyers/Gratton).

On the other hand compensation has gone down a bit (max compensation is now four 1st rounders instead of the old five).

Someone might try, but there are a lot of good UFAs on the market (e.g. Chara, Elias) who will cost you nothing but cash. One would think that an offer to a high-value RFA wouldn't come until the UFA options were exhausted. This should give the Flyers another week to seal a deal.

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06-30-2006, 07:22 PM
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Gert B Frobe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Nitty
the compensation is a follows depending on the amount of the contract.

$660,000 or below - No compensation
Over $660,000 to $1 million - Third Round
Over $1 million to $2.0 million -Second Round
Over $2.0 million to $3.0 million - First Round and Third Round
Over $3.0 million to $4.0 million - First Round, Second Round, and Third Round
Over $4.0 million to $5.0 million -Two First Rounds, Second Round, and Third Round
Over $5 million - Four First Rounds


Regardless we would have to match or our d would be crippled.
Given that I would not worry about it too much. Heck - I love Pitkanen but if somebody wants to give us the over 4 or over 5 million dollar options - I'd say take him...

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06-30-2006, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
Given that I would not worry about it too much. Heck - I love Pitkanen but if somebody wants to give us the over 4 or over 5 million dollar options - I'd say take him...
I wouldn't. I'd give him 5.

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06-30-2006, 09:34 PM
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Pitkanen is probably going to be one of the best players to have been part of our organization. A few years ago when he came in, everyone knew he would be good, but personally, I think he's already top 10 in the league. The flyers need to lock him up long term, im talking like a 7 year deal, b/c he will be dominant.

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Old
06-30-2006, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab79
Question: Not sure how it works. If someone offers him 5m, and Clarke doesn't match it, does the other team have to give us something like a bunch of picks? Or is the the other way around where if we do match it, we have to give them picks? How does it work and what picks would we/they get?

Sorry for the hijack but this falls into the idea of this post with Pitkanen.
Depending on the size of the offer sheet, a team would need to give us draft picks for signing one of our RFA's. I think its something like three first rounders over 4 or five million, a second round pick for offers over 2 mil, etc. They definately lowered the price on such transactions from the last CBA, in terms of draft picks.

The real problem is that no team has made a serious offer sheet yet on a single player, either this year or last. I think the GM's threw that as a bone to the players union during the lockout and then wink wink, nudge nudge agreed to never poach from one another.

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Old
07-01-2006, 02:31 AM
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boredmale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
Given that I would not worry about it too much. Heck - I love Pitkanen but if somebody wants to give us the over 4 or over 5 million dollar options - I'd say take him...
If somebody is gonna sign him to a deal, it probably would work out to be 3.99M average or 4.99M average, can't see him getting over 5M.

If a team really wants to screw with the Flyers offer both Gagne and Pitkanen 4.99M dollar contracts.

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Old
07-01-2006, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo

The real problem is that no team has made a serious offer sheet yet on a single player, either this year or last. I think the GM's threw that as a bone to the players union during the lockout and then wink wink, nudge nudge agreed to never poach from one another.
I believe that to be true as well..

As far as dedalus comments go, there were a few more than Gratton and Sakic getting the offer sheets, one that comes to mind is when Keith Tkachuk was up here in Winnipeg, Chicago offered him a big (front loaded) contract thinking the Jets would have no choice but to let him go.

There were others too...

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07-01-2006, 07:56 AM
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Steve L*
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How about the Canes offering Federov an offer sheet with a huge bonus for winning the cup, they had no chance then but the Wings did so they had to match and Federov got his massive bonus.

Team do try and do it.

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07-01-2006, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
How about the Canes offering Federov an offer sheet with a huge bonus for winning the cup, they had no chance then but the Wings did so they had to match and Federov got his massive bonus.
Oh yeah! Totally forgot that one! That one was sneaky clever.

There's an interesting blog article on why it's more worth it to try now than ever before:

http://puckstopshere.blogspot.com/20...some-rfas.html

Highlights:
Quote:
Even if the team matches your offer, you have forced them to use up some of their salary cap room to retain the player [which was obviously never a concern under the pre-cap CBA] ... Not only is the compensation less, draft picks are not worth as much because of reduced free agency ages in the new CBA, so you do not have control of nearly as long in a player's career when you draft them.
Personally I challenge the last point. I'd argue that picks are worth more now because younger players are cheaper players and therefore more cap friendly.

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07-01-2006, 09:23 AM
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I'm a HUGE Pitkanen fan, but I'll tell you now that if a team offered him 5.01m right now I don't think I'd match it.

Give me the 4 first rounders and watch this club turn into a dynasty. Losing Pitkanen would hurt...BAD, but it wouldn't completely destroy the team. We could always use those first rounders to move up in another draft or make a trade for a great D-man.

Just talkin out my @ss.

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07-01-2006, 12:00 PM
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boredmale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab79
I'm a HUGE Pitkanen fan, but I'll tell you now that if a team offered him 5.01m right now I don't think I'd match it.
what if they offered him 4.99M?

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07-01-2006, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab79
I'm a HUGE Pitkanen fan, but I'll tell you now that if a team offered him 5.01m right now I don't think I'd match it.

Give me the 4 first rounders and watch this club turn into a dynasty. Losing Pitkanen would hurt...BAD, but it wouldn't completely destroy the team. We could always use those first rounders to move up in another draft or make a trade for a great D-man.

Just talkin out my @ss.
I'd take 4 first rounders also, problem is the compensation would only be one second round pick due to his low salary.

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07-01-2006, 12:19 PM
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Pitkanen and Umberger were not allowed to sign new contracts until noon today, per the new CBA.

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07-01-2006, 12:46 PM
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markzab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale
what if they offered him 4.99M?
Then we wouldn't be compensated as much, so no, I'd match it.

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07-01-2006, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Fish
I'd take 4 first rounders also, problem is the compensation would only be one second round pick due to his low salary.
No it wouldnt, its the salary they offer and not the salary he was on that counts.

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07-01-2006, 12:54 PM
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boredmale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab79
Then we wouldn't be compensated as much, so no, I'd match it.
As a GM that 1 dollar makes all the difference(ie first, second third compared to 4 firsts), as a player i think he can live without the dollar. Not that i see some team signing him to an offer sheet, but if one does i think the offer will be like that.

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07-01-2006, 12:57 PM
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markzab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale
As a GM that 1 dollar makes all the difference(ie first, second third compared to 4 firsts), as a player i think he can live without the dollar. Not that i see some team signing him to an offer sheet, but if one does i think the offer will be like that.
I wrote 5.01 to get the compensatory point across. Let me rephrase it. If another GM knew we'd likely resign him at 4.99m and offered 5.5m because he genuinely wanted to get him, then I'd let them take him for all the first rounders.

If they offered 4.99m (and I only think we'd see that number if they were intentiaonally f-ing with us) then I'd resign him and make it my personal duty to screw with that GM for the rest of my career.

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07-01-2006, 01:36 PM
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The time is now for signing Pitkanen. He is a great player and like several posts have said he will be a Norris canidate. And a young one at that. I think we should sign him to a long contract it stuctured to get more and more money but cap it at 4 to 5mil. that will save us money in the future because he is going to get 8mil one day, or more because the cap will go up again since the revenues are getting higher and higher.

another thing is that we should have signed gagne long term earlier. I know this seems like hind sight but i posted thisseveral times a year ago. We should have extened his contract and gave him 3 mil a year for 5 years as soon as Foppa was signed. It was so obvious that Gagne was going to be good. I even drafted him in the earlier rounds of my Fantasy pool. Seeing how this can ot be done now, we are in a trouble spot because Gagne is mostlikey going to get more than he is worth...

the next big strategy in the cap world is going to be signing youg good players that are going to be great to long term deals that overpay for the first or second year but then underpay them for the next 5 years when the team is more of a conteder and uses that money for UFAs.

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Old
07-02-2006, 10:33 AM
  #23
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Chara 7.5m a year,
Jovanovski 6.5m a year,
Blake 6m a year,
Johnsson 5m a year,
Kubina 5m a year,
McKee 4m a year...

If I was Pitkänen's agent, I would not accept anything less than 5m a year and there are certainly teams that could go even higher with their bids for a franchise QB like him.

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07-02-2006, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenon View Post
Chara 7.5m a year,
Jovanovski 6.5m a year,
Blake 6m a year,
Johnsson 5m a year,
Kubina 5m a year,
McKee 4m a year...

If I was Pitkänen's agent, I would not accept anything less than 5m a year and there are certainly teams that could go even higher with their bids for a franchise QB like him.
You do understand the difference between restricted and unrestricted free agents, dont you? Basically if we offered him 3 mil and no one wanted to match it, he would have two choices: either sign and play for 3 mil, or sit and watch for nothing.

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