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Potentially disturbing Poile tactics

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07-03-2006, 01:33 PM
  #1
dulzhok
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Potentially disturbing Poile tactics

A couple of things recently that I’ve reaffirmed my suspicions that we have the least proactive GM in hockey:

ARNOTT SIGNING (Tennessean)
------------
That's when Arnott's agent informed Poile the Predators were one of the teams on top of Arnott's list, and asked why Nashville hadn't yet inquired about him.
"I was assuming — and I guess you should never assume — that either the money or the fit wasn't there,'' Poile said. "(But) I said, 'Well, that's interesting.' I think that's what really got it going.''
-------------

So if Arnott’s agent had not called, you wouldn’t have made a pitch for him? Very disturbing.
Secondly, the whole thing with Mason… why did he wait until days before the UFA deadline to make an offer? If Mase is the guy you wanted, why the hell did you wait, and even publicly encourage Mason to seek a new opportunity?
-------------------

There have been a few other situations in the past as well. While it may have worked out this time around, it makes you wonder how many missed opportunities have occurred because of Poile’s passiveness.

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07-03-2006, 01:36 PM
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just goes to show that we don't call him "stand-pat Poile" for nothing.

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07-03-2006, 01:39 PM
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It does bother me that Poile had to have Arnott's agent contact him about playing here. ***?

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07-03-2006, 02:34 PM
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I just spent a long time typing a response to this thread then decided it just wasn't worth it.

I am very happy with Mr. Poile. He has done a great job for us.

**
Just my half-cent worth opinion.
**

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07-03-2006, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
So if Arnott’s agent had not called, you wouldn’t have made a pitch for him? Very disturbing.
Secondly, the whole thing with Mason… why did he wait until days before the UFA deadline to make an offer? If Mase is the guy you wanted, why the hell did you wait, and even publicly encourage Mason to seek a new opportunity?
The Mason situation doesn't bother me as much, but I'm hoping he was joking with regards to Arnott. It's definitely not how you'd like your GM to be. He needs to be beating the bushes if he has any desire to sign someone. Just assuming someone doesn't want to be here is stupid, so I really hope he's not serious there. Every person he wants on the market should receive some sort of offer. Leave it up to them to decide whether they want to accept or not. Don't ever take the choice out of their hands by not even calling.

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07-03-2006, 02:53 PM
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I was surprised Poile admitted that he didn't contact Arnott's camp. Seems like a strange thing to admit to the public.

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07-03-2006, 02:57 PM
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I thought I had read that Poile had contacted Arnott's agent to talk about one of the agent's other clients. The agent then asked Poile why they had called about Arnott and Poile said that he thought Arnott's wants and the Preds wants would be too far apart.

I would imagine that Poile thought the price would be too high.

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07-03-2006, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattypred View Post
I would imagine that Poile thought the price would be too high.
That's the problem. He didn't give Arnott or his agent a chance to tell Nashville to bug off. He did it for him. Is this the first time this has happened? What other players that wanted to play in Nashville failed to get a call from Poile?

I'd hate to think he missed out on some really desirable players in the past because he assumed too much. And I'd hate to see a highly desirable, yet affordable defenseman traded for scraps in the next few weeks that would be a perfect fit for the Preds. We'd be left to wonder if Poile even made an offer or if he just assumed it'd be too much.

I've been a big supporter of Poile in the past, but if this was a legitimate comment and not a joke, it's embarrassing for him. There's just no excusing that.

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07-03-2006, 04:56 PM
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I wouldnt read too much into that comment.

Im willing to bet there's a ton of backchannel communication going on prior to the lockout period, who knows what rumors were flying around.

Heck, we had Arnott signing in Montreal.

Maybe, Poile got wind from a usually reliable source that Arnott wasnt interested. Maybe Poile had a trade on the line and wasnt looking at an FA center as option #1.

I think though that from past experiences, we should probably give Poile the benefit of the doubt. Who knows who goes on in board rooms and 2 a.m. conference calls.

We just landed the #1 center weve all be clamoring for since last year. Is it really that big a deal exactly how it went down?

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07-03-2006, 05:26 PM
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Do you really, honestly, think that Poile had a trade in place? David Poile?

I think it went down exactly as he said, and frankly, its kind of sad and embarrasing.

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07-03-2006, 05:58 PM
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I remember another situation a few years ago with Steve Staios… He became a UFA, and Poile was interested. It was in the paper that Poile had conferred with Trotz on Staios (and Trotz liked the idea), but before they could make an offer, Edmonton had already made an offer and Staois accepted.

I am aware of a few other similar situations that have not be talked about in the media by Trotz or Poile.

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07-04-2006, 07:46 AM
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I have been trying to come to grip with this article over the past couple days, and there is a couple of things that come to mind.....

First.....if Poile is truly that naive, and he knows it is a weakness of his, he wouldn't have dare admitted it in the press if it truly happened that way.....

Second....if the story went down exactly as described, it totally explains the "stand-pat Poile" approach to things that we have witnessed.

Third....it MAY be that Shero was the actual mover and shaker of things, and now, the true passive nature of Poile will be on full display until Fenton becomes more seasoned.

Fourth......if Poile is truly that naive, and DOESN'T know it is a weakness of his, Lord help us all....

Fifth....Poile may be more wiley than what we give him credit for, and this was said in the press in this manner to lay groundwork for future options....what that may be is far beyond what I can read in the tea leaves....

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07-04-2006, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
I have been trying to come to grip with this article over the past couple days, and there is a couple of things that come to mind.....

First.....if Poile is truly that naive, and he knows it is a weakness of his, he wouldn't have dare admitted it in the press if it truly happened that way.....

Second....if the story went down exactly as described, it totally explains the "stand-pat Poile" approach to things that we have witnessed.

Third....it MAY be that Shero was the actual mover and shaker of things, and now, the true passive nature of Poile will be on full display until Fenton becomes more seasoned.

Fourth......if Poile is truly that naive, and DOESN'T know it is a weakness of his, Lord help us all....

Fifth....Poile may be more wiley than what we give him credit for, and this was said in the press in this manner to lay groundwork for future options....what that may be is far beyond what I can read in the tea leaves....
I see what your saying, but is it not like being hit in the gut, rereading the statement? Its like a confirmation of a lot of our worst fears. We wonder why Poile isn't in on a lot of deals, and why we hold onto guys long past their use to us in this organization......lo and behold we may have a reason...straight from the mouth of Poile himself. I can only hope he is more proactive in the future because this is the biggest period of time in our franchise, and I do not want to see it go to waste with us piddling around in the first round/heading back into rebuild mode as people start to leave.

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07-04-2006, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I see what your saying, but is it not like being hit in the gut, rereading the statement? Its like a confirmation of a lot of our worst fears. We wonder why Poile isn't in on a lot of deals, and why we hold onto guys long past their use to us in this organization......lo and behold we may have a reason...straight from the mouth of Poile himself. I can only hope he is more proactive in the future because this is the biggest period of time in our franchise, and I do not want to see it go to waste with us piddling around in the first round/heading back into rebuild mode as people start to leave.
i agree Enoch.....it is potentially a confirmation to our fears.....but our WORST fears would be to have a GM like JFJ.

Having a GM like Poile tends to give us slow steady improvement over time instead of the boom and bust cycles of other teams.....will this style fail in the new CBA era that will undoubtedly lead to short, albeit frequent, cycles of opportunty followed by rebuilding? Time will tell.....just remember, that we only hear about the extreme tip of the iceberg as far as the behind the scenes manuevering of the NHL scene......this was never on display better than on our trip with the team......

Poile's style may be frustratingly boring to those of us who like to throw out trade proposals around here like they were poker chips.....but in reality, we have access to very little of the true reality of things......

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07-04-2006, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattypred View Post
I thought I had read that Poile had contacted Arnott's agent to talk about one of the agent's other clients. The agent then asked Poile why they had called about Arnott and Poile said that he thought Arnott's wants and the Preds wants would be too far apart.

I would imagine that Poile thought the price would be too high.
Hmm I believe Wade Arnott - Jason's brother - is his agent. Not sure how many clients he has or who else we might have been interested in. Either way it's disturbing our GM can't even make a phone call to a guy. smokey - think you can get a job in the Preds front office and help the guy out?

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07-04-2006, 12:28 PM
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Hmm I believe Wade Arnott - Jason's brother - is his agent. Not sure how many clients he has or who else we might have been interested in. Either way it's disturbing our GM can't even make a phone call to a guy. smokey - think you can get a job in the Preds front office and help the guy out?
correct. I don't think he represents anyone else.

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07-04-2006, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by leg11wand View Post
smokey - think you can get a job in the Preds front office and help the guy out?
Hahaha, I'd make Mike Milbury look stable and Doug MacLean look competent. I'd be a fan favorite though, drinking like a fish up in the pressbox watching my masterpiece get shredded on the ice. After it all falls apart however, I wouldn't be opposed to letting average fans be "GM for a day." It's not like it could get any worse. The results would suck, but damn would it be fun!

I could handle the salary caps and assist in contract negotiations. Those are the only things I have any experience doing. But that would be the extent of it. Poile, for as much as we criticize him, can gain as much knowledge about a hockey player in one game as most of us can in an entire lifetime of watching him. He could probably use an aggressive go-getter as a counterbalance, but who's to say Fenton isn't that man right now? I know I'm certainly not.

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07-05-2006, 09:20 AM
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not trying to take your thread on a tangent as that comment from Poile is quite interesting

but I thought I would just add that Wade Arnott works for Newport Sports Management (Don Meehan et al) and he does represent other NHL players and prospects (e,g,. David McKee, Danny Irmen).

http://www.thehockeyagency.com/npsmTop.html

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07-06-2006, 02:31 AM
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I think its none of the above... i think he said that because he was shocked that Arnott wanted to come here so easily. I am sure he was trying to get Arnott, Savard, Pronger, and whoever else was out there... just was so shocked that the Arnott deal came so easily.

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07-08-2006, 03:26 AM
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Does it really matter if Poile is proactive or not?

He signed Arnott. We got who we wanted. Why does it matter how we got him?

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07-08-2006, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efice32 View Post
Does it really matter if Poile is proactive or not?

He signed Arnott. We got who we wanted. Why does it matter how we got him?
When you make statements as he did, it looked more like he's waiting around to see what's left and what he can get on the cheap. He publicly said he was not going to make a big splash like last year in the Kariya signing. I don't think he had any intention of signing Arnott much less giving it the first thought.

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07-08-2006, 09:18 AM
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Does it really matter if Poile is proactive or not?

He signed Arnott. We got who we wanted. Why does it matter how we got him?
Because it makes you wonder how many opportunities we may have had in the past...and how many we may have in the future...that we'll totally be shut out on because Poile "doesn't think" we have a chance.

Did Poile make a serious inquiry\offer for Pronger? In the past, when teams were rumored to be courting Olli Jokinen and Brad Richards...did he assume the price was too high?

He may have been right, but that's not the point. When you're a GM, part of your job is keeping your feelers out\making harmless inquiries. If he judges what's worth it and what's not before ever setting foot...it's an alarming thing.

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07-08-2006, 09:44 AM
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I think where most people are making the connection is Poile's passive personality, his latest Arnott signing statements, the Witt deal [McFee calling Poile at 5 minutes before the deadline to make the deal actually occur], Kariya interviewing HIM, and the statements of "GMs 'visiting' the Nashville table at the draft when needing young blueliners."

When you add everything together, it paints the picture of a GM who will never be involved in a Jokinen, Richards, Thornton, or Pronger blockbuster deal unless the other GM wants some of OUR assets. Also getting burnt in the Witt deal, will probably reverberate in Poile's mind for a while, making him even more gun-shy.

I am not saying this slow steady approach will not ultimately produce a champion, and it certainly is one of the major factors in our slow steady improvement since 1998.....but it does bring into question the strategy of acquiring a lot of blueline assets to the fault of other positions, if you are never going to deal some of them to address your other needs....

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07-09-2006, 12:03 AM
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The telling fact to me is that Poile has only traded 3 significant roster players in our 7 years-- Ronning, Fitzgerald, Skrastins. Ronning and Fitz were UFA rentals we weren't to sign (no brainers). And then he gave away Skrastins.

It's like he has a phobia or something when trading away roster players / already drafted prospects.

It has helped us in some ways, but it's his biggest fault in other ways.

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07-09-2006, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
The telling fact to me is that Poile has only traded 3 significant roster players in our 7 years-- Ronning, Fitzgerald, Skrastins. Ronning and Fitz were UFA rentals we weren't to sign (no brainers). And then he gave away Skrastins.

It's like he has a phobia or something when trading away roster players / already drafted prospects.

It has helped us in some ways, but it's his biggest fault in other ways.
Dunham was by far his biggest trade and risky move that turned out great for the Preds.....give him credit where credit is due.

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