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Old
07-04-2006, 11:04 PM
  #76
Brandi
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Originally Posted by champben2002 View Post
Well its hard when they have yet to address any of the probelms that I felt they had going into the offseason. If he had past success I might be more willing to accept Mucks differance in opinion.

Talking about bandwagons its BS how so many people ***** and complain about how I am a homer or how I pick on Sens players or that I constantly hate everything about the Sens or whatever. My opinions haven't really changed very much on any of these subjects, but I still have to read that crap.

I supported and cheared for Havlat, Redden, Spezza and Emery when most people dumped on them. Last year, (and I would say this year too) I said that Alfy, Spezza, Havlat and Heatley were all good bets for being top 10 scorers on the NHL page to cries of homerism. But when a team fails, you can't expect me to support moves by the GM to basically stay the course. There is alot of talent on the team and great players like Spezza, Heatley, Havlat, Alfy, Redden, Meszaros. Trimming the fat (Shaefer and Fisher) from the team and getting some speed, shots and experience could still go along way towards our success. I am still holding out some hope that Mucks gets canned, we get rid of the doornob on the bench and we make those changes to our team. It wouldn't take that much to put this team over the top with a slight change in direction.

Doornob? Grow up dude. Seriously.
You're just an over exaggerated bitter fan. My god. You have serious issues.

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07-04-2006, 11:32 PM
  #77
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Doornob? Grow up dude. Seriously.
You're just an over exaggerated bitter fan. My god. You have serious issues.
Hes been on my ignore list for some time now. Only if people would stop quoting his posts.

Anyhow Muckler has done a good job and there is little reason to complain. We had the second youngust team in the league last season, let our team mature a bit more and we will be fine.

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07-05-2006, 08:54 AM
  #78
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Hes been on my ignore list for some time now.
I'm getting close to doing the same.

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07-05-2006, 09:49 AM
  #79
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I'm getting close to doing the same.
Trimming the fat, so to speak?

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07-05-2006, 10:05 AM
  #80
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Trimming the fat, so to speak?
Well, we did get rid of Arnason

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07-05-2006, 10:05 AM
  #81
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I'm not a fan of Muckler's...believe you me. His trade deadline acquisitions of Peter Bondra, Tyler Arnason, Rob Ray, Todd Simpson etc...have certainly left something to be desired. I think he has made some good trades - Schaefer for Salo, Pothier for McEachern, and Heatley for Hossa/deVries come to mind. I also like the Martin Gerber signing - I guess time will tell if that was a good move or not. However, Mucks has had 3 or 4 years now to address what I perceive to be this team's biggest problem - the lack of gritty players who are able to play on the top 2 lines and effectively complement our skilled players like Alfredsson and Spezza.

That being said, I think Muckler has a great opportunity to redeem himself by making the right Martin Havlat deal. If we can acquire a top 6 forward with some grit and jam (i.e. Brenden Morrow) who can fit in under the team's budget, then I will support Mucks from now on. If the Sens are not able to squeeze such a player under the budget because of the Joe Corvo signing, I'll be pretty peeved. I still don't understand the Corvo signing - I hope he proves me wrong. IMO this is Muckler's last year to prove his worth as the Sens GM.

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07-05-2006, 10:15 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Havlat9 View Post
I'm not a fan of Muckler's...believe you me. His trade deadline acquisitions of Peter Bondra, Tyler Arnason, Rob Ray, Todd Simpson etc...have certainly left something to be desired. I think he has made some good trades - Schaefer for Salo, Pothier for McEachern, and Heatley for Hossa/deVries come to mind. I also like the Martin Gerber signing - I guess time will tell if that was a good move or not. However, Mucks has had 3 or 4 years now to address what I perceive to be this team's biggest problem - the lack of gritty players who are able to play on the top 2 lines and effectively complement our skilled players like Alfredsson and Spezza.

.
I hear what you'er saying.

I do remember this year at the trade deadline, TSN was saying that a very small percentage of last minute trades, really work. THey say it does little to effect the team in a good way for the playoff run. So all in all, it's not just a Mucks thing right?

The arnason deal looked good in the first few games, then went sour badly. LOL ... that's gotta suck!

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07-05-2006, 04:59 PM
  #83
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Please forgive me for posting this(source is Eklund on the team this afternoon), but thought people would want to know, Mucks is apperently in the running for Peca a long with the Isalanders. Not sure the sens could afford him though..sems unlikely

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07-05-2006, 05:52 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by The Big Other View Post
Please forgive me for posting this(source is Eklund on the team this afternoon), but thought people would want to know, Mucks is apperently in the running for Peca a long with the Isalanders. Not sure the sens could afford him though..sems unlikely
I guess that's were Havlat comes in ?

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07-05-2006, 08:17 PM
  #85
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Emery resigned 1 year 925k


OVERPAYED! FIRE MUCKLER!

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07-05-2006, 11:39 PM
  #86
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Emery resigned 1 year 925k


OVERPAYED! FIRE MUCKLER!

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07-09-2006, 11:08 PM
  #87
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Well maybe more people like this idea after today. Not much has changed for me though. Today was an opportunity to change the team from last year and I think that Muckler missed that boat. So I guess more evidence makes a stronger case.

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07-10-2006, 12:17 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by champben2002 View Post
Well maybe more people like this idea after today. Not much has changed for me though. Today was an opportunity to change the team from last year and I think that Muckler missed that boat. So I guess more evidence makes a stronger case.
Actually I think this trade showed Muckler truly does understand the New NHL and the cap system, very, very well. This is an amazing cap era trade. The Sens get a 43 point D-Man who makes 685 K and a great centre prospect who was a 2nd rounder, a great Defence prospect who was a 2nd rounder and a second rounder for a guy the Sens had no hope to sign long term and who they could probably not afford even on a one year $3 million deal. They got rid of Smolinski who I liked and who was decent but who was overpaid for the role he did on a team so close to the cap as well. This is an amazing hockey deal.

If Mucks wanted to he could trade Priessing for a very decent return as well this summer. I don't think he will but if he wanted to that is a very, very valuable asset to a team that needs a PP defenceman who can score 40+ but has no cap room. 685K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is amazing. Chara got 43 points last year and he is making 7.5 million! Priessing makes 1/12 that much. Chara is clearly a far better player but 12 times more valuable? I don't think so.

Champben you chastise Muckler for not getting gritty veteran forwards but this is just the exact kind of deal that could get them. The Sens have no ability to sign UFAs anymore with their cap situation. They can't trade any of their elite players and all of them have great low priced contracts in comparision to other stars. What you can do is get assets like great young prospects near ready to step in like the D-Man and Center prospects they got in the Havlat deal, or draft picks like the 2nd rounder they got. They can trade these assets during the season, near the trade deadline and get veterans with bigger contracts and who are better and we can afford them pro-rated under the cap. We don't have to trade these exact prospects, but having more good prospects means you can deal other prospects or picks.

You want Rome to be built in a day, but where is tha cap room to do it? There isn't. You suggest trading Fisher or Schaeffer but who is better at near 1.5 milion they make or will make?

This kind of deal gives the Sens cap room and flexibility to make deadline trades.

Maybe Corvo or Priessing will be moved during the season to a contender that needs a pp quaterback as theirs is injured and the Sens get a King's ransom.

Muckler is playing this off season completely right. He is making great moves.

You will see that the moves pay dividends this season and that Muckler may add the kind of players you want just not right now but during the year when they can fit under the cap.

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Old
07-10-2006, 12:26 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule View Post
Actually I think this trade showed Muckler truly does understand the New NHL and the cap system, very, very well. This is an amazing cap era trade. The Sens get a 43 point D-Man who makes 685 K and a great centre prospect who was a 2nd rounder, a great Defence prospect who was a 2nd rounder and a second rounder for a guy the Sens had no hope to sign long term and who they could probably not afford even on a one year $3 million deal. They got rid of Smolinski who I liked and who was decent but who was overpaid for the role he did on a team so close to the cap as well. This is an amazing hockey deal.

If Mucks wanted to he could trade Priessing for a very decent return as well this summer. I don't think he will but if he wanted to that is a very, very valuable asset to a team that needs a PP defenceman who can score 40+ but has no cap room. 685K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is amazing. Chara got 43 points last year and he is making 7.5 million! Priessing makes 1/12 that much. Chara is clearly a far better player but 12 times more valuable? I don't think so.

Champben you chastise Muckler for not getting gritty veteran forwards but this is just the exact kind of deal that could get them. The Sens have no ability to sign UFAs anymore with their cap situation. They can't trade any of their elite players and all of them have great low priced contracts in comparision to other stars. What you can do is get assets like great young prospects near ready to step in like the D-Man and Center prospects they got in the Havlat deal, or draft picks like the 2nd rounder they got. They can trade these assets during the season, near the trade deadline and get veterans with bigger contracts and who are better and we can afford them pro-rated under the cap. We don't have to trade these exact prospects, but having more good prospects means you can deal other prospects or picks.

You want Rome to be built in a day, but where is tha cap room to do it? There isn't. You suggest trading Fisher or Schaeffer but who is better at near 1.5 milion they make or will make?

This kind of deal gives the Sens cap room and flexibility to make deadline trades.

Maybe Corvo or Priessing will be moved during the season to a contender that needs a pp quaterback as theirs is injured and the Sens get a King's ransom.

Muckler is playing this off season completely right. He is making great moves.

You will see that the moves pay dividends this season and that Muckler may add the kind of players you want just not right now but during the year when they can fit under the cap.

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Old
07-10-2006, 12:36 AM
  #90
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I personally think you should cheer for the Leafs.
Probably a good idea, he'd fit right in with the "calling for [insert player/management exec. here]'s head" crowd.

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07-10-2006, 02:20 AM
  #91
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Actually I think this trade showed Muckler truly does understand the New NHL and the cap system, very, very well. This is an amazing cap era trade.
I'm not sure I'd call it amazing, but I agree that this deal really does show that Muckler understands how things are working under the new CBA. This deal is about long-term asset management, and pretty clearly sets the plate for the team to continue to be competitive beyond the critical decisions that are coming in two years time (which will largely be UFA decisions as opposed to significant trade options). And personally, I think the stage is set for Redden to be the one not coming back in that equation, which makes the need to proactively address deficiencies on the blue line all the more important. In that sense, I think Muckler has done a pretty decent job... the key now is to capitalize on the cap space to address the more win-now element of the equation, specifically among the forwards. If he can do that to any significant extent, I don't know how people can be excessively critical of the job he's done this summer... the defence looks pretty set (and armed to the teeth with offensive ability), the goaltending has been stabilized, the key fixtures on offense are ready to go, and the primary distractions for the team will have been addressed.


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07-10-2006, 07:16 AM
  #92
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I have no problem with him going after prospects, or older players. I have a problem with him getting 4 bodies rather than 1 or 2. I have a problem with him getting players that are redundant on our team. I don't like that each of his aquisitions could get injured and our PP might be the only thing that is harmed by it. I new that we would have to dump salary and I wanted us to trade Havlat or Heatley for prospects... just not these prospects and that pick. I understand why Pressing has value, but he doesn't make a hell of alot of sence for Ottawa.

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07-10-2006, 07:43 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by champben2002 View Post
I have no problem with him going after prospects, or older players. I have a problem with him getting 4 bodies rather than 1 or 2. I have a problem with him getting players that are redundant on our team. I don't like that each of his aquisitions could get injured and our PP might be the only thing that is harmed by it. I new that we would have to dump salary and I wanted us to trade Havlat or Heatley for prospects... just not these prospects and that pick. I understand why Pressing has value, but he doesn't make a hell of alot of sence for Ottawa.
Did you not watch the Buffalo series. The lack of mobility on defense was huge blow to the team.

Who do the sens have in the system thats a defensive defenseman, Baranka fills that hole.

Hennessy is another offensive forward. How is that a bad thing?

Seems to me you fill like complaining for the sense of complainig.

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07-12-2006, 11:44 AM
  #94
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All I hope is that, at the end of this coming season we remember the trades made by our GM and that he is held accountable for his mistakes. If he's not able to fill our holes properly but he can sign stupid contracts (Corvo comes to mind) then he should go!!
I'm one of those that thinks he should go now, the dammage he's done is not repairable at this point. Using the new NHL and the new CBA is an excuse to me..
As Melnyk told him." Move on and get it done".
Unfortunately for us, I really don't feel he can! I hope I'm wrong though.
I agree that right now is not a good time to call for his head because of recent moves, but he must pay a price in the spring!!!
I really miss Hossa, that one still hurts!

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07-12-2006, 12:13 PM
  #95
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All I hope is that, at the end of this coming season we remember the trades made by our GM and that he is held accountable for his mistakes. If he's not able to fill our holes properly but he can sign stupid contracts (Corvo comes to mind) then he should go!!
I'm one of those that thinks he should go now, the dammage he's done is not repairable at this point. Using the new NHL and the new CBA is an excuse to me..
As Melnyk told him." Move on and get it done".
Unfortunately for us, I really don't feel he can! I hope I'm wrong though.
I agree that right now is not a good time to call for his head because of recent moves, but he must pay a price in the spring!!!
I really miss Hossa, that one still hurts!
Please enlighten us as to the damage. And, please, explain to us how you would be able to afford keeping the team together as GM...

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07-12-2006, 12:15 PM
  #96
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Let's be careful to not call for Muckler's head too fast, his replacement could be one of us. Although that thought is intriguing and would create a trade or two every day, this management team seems to be doing a very good job with the realities of the new CBA.

Keep in mind that it is not just Muckler making the decisions but the assistant GM, the capologist, the scouting staff, the coach and assistant coaches and sometimes the captain and an elite player or two. All the options are weighted, measured and the best decison for the hockey team is taken. We don't always know all the facts and regardless of all the players we do want coming to Ottawa it's not always possible. Players say they want to play here or stay here but when push comes to dollars players take the cash and see themselves out the door.

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07-12-2006, 12:26 PM
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First of all I'd take Hossa over Heater any day!!
At the time the trade happened with Hossa, it was noted that Atlanta would have taken Havlat and Smolinski instead, we would have payd the same cash. Negotitations were tough with Marian so Mucks showed him his Muscles like he's done many times before (Coach Nolan comes to mind) we all know what happened to him after Mucks had his way! We just gave redden 6.05 Mil and Corve 2. whatever. We just gave up on Havlat for relatively unknowns in the league. Martin was blamed for the losses in the Playoffs and it was easy for Mucks to fire him with the support of the public. (Reaction move after another playoff loss). I blamed Lalime on softies against Toronto not coaching. As you can surely agree, he was supposed to hire us a new coach who was a proven winner. What has Murray won?
What did he do with this powerhouse team??????
The fact is Martin had Lalime and he thought he was the man but he wasn't and Martin was blamed. Martin isn't the guy who signs cointracts.
Last year should have been the year Martin had Hasek, our team would have had a system!!!
Like I said, always blaming mistakes on $$$ is an excuse. Every GM is dealing with the cap.
You may or may not agree with this but it is my take on it and Mucks DID NOT deliver!!!
QUOTE=gbl1p;6000709]Please enlighten us as to the damage. And, please, explain to us how you would be able to afford keeping the team together as GM...[/QUOTE]

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07-12-2006, 03:28 PM
  #98
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First of all I'd take Hossa over Heater any day!!
At the time the trade happened with Hossa, it was noted that Atlanta would have taken Havlat and Smolinski instead, we would have payd the same cash. Negotitations were tough with Marian so Mucks showed him his Muscles like he's done many times before (Coach Nolan comes to mind) we all know what happened to him after Mucks had his way! We just gave redden 6.05 Mil and Corve 2. whatever. We just gave up on Havlat for relatively unknowns in the league. Martin was blamed for the losses in the Playoffs and it was easy for Mucks to fire him with the support of the public. (Reaction move after another playoff loss). I blamed Lalime on softies against Toronto not coaching. As you can surely agree, he was supposed to hire us a new coach who was a proven winner. What has Murray won?
What did he do with this powerhouse team??????
The fact is Martin had Lalime and he thought he was the man but he wasn't and Martin was blamed. Martin isn't the guy who signs cointracts.
Last year should have been the year Martin had Hasek, our team would have had a system!!!
Like I said, always blaming mistakes on $$$ is an excuse. Every GM is dealing with the cap.
You may or may not agree with this but it is my take on it and Mucks DID NOT deliver!!!
Yer WRONG

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07-12-2006, 03:45 PM
  #99
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Keep in mind that it is not just Muckler making the decisions but the assistant GM, the capologist, the scouting staff, the coach and assistant coaches and sometimes the captain and an elite player or two.
you know what's funny?
that'd be great if it were true. Muckler has begun to alienate his coaches due to his LACK of consultation.
The man shows up to work at 10am eats his friggin pistachio's, hops in for a massage, makes a few calls and......have a nice weekend everyone.

believe me me, dont believe i could care less.


He has poorly managed our assets. Its all well and good to say "how much better could he have done for Havlat" or "Z was unaffordable, we couldnt have kept him."
yes i agree those are true statements, however the person who jammed himself into that corner is Muckler.
He let it get to this point.

I like what has been done with the D in the absence of Chara.
Gerber? Fine i guess, but i dont really know and neither do you. he has virtually no track record. ill give it the benefitt of the doubt.

It doesnt change the fact that the team is not as good now as it was last year. The dynamic up front hasnt changed, no veteran leadership to support what's here.
It doesnt change the fact that everyone is locked up in 2 year deals that someone has yet to explain to me how it benefitts us when 75% of the team will walk as UFA's or watch their contracts skyrocket them out of town.
(you find me the last example of a really good young team having its young players salaries decrease.)
He has managed to ensure that we will get nothing for our star players as they will all be 1 year away from UFA, just like Havlat.

so yeah we'll challenge for the Cup this year. It would be the height of managerial incompetence to ruin this team overnight due to the embarassment of riches in player talent we've accumulated but the train is heading down those tracks.

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07-12-2006, 04:08 PM
  #100
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First of all I'd take Hossa over Heater any day!!
At the time the trade happened with Hossa, it was noted that Atlanta would have taken Havlat and Smolinski instead, we would have payd the same cash. Negotitations were tough with Marian so Mucks showed him his Muscles like he's done many times before (Coach Nolan comes to mind) we all know what happened to him after Mucks had his way! We just gave redden 6.05 Mil and Corve 2. whatever. We just gave up on Havlat for relatively unknowns in the league. Martin was blamed for the losses in the Playoffs and it was easy for Mucks to fire him with the support of the public. (Reaction move after another playoff loss). I blamed Lalime on softies against Toronto not coaching. As you can surely agree, he was supposed to hire us a new coach who was a proven winner. What has Murray won?
What did he do with this powerhouse team??????
The fact is Martin had Lalime and he thought he was the man but he wasn't and Martin was blamed. Martin isn't the guy who signs cointracts.
Last year should have been the year Martin had Hasek, our team would have had a system!!!
Like I said, always blaming mistakes on $$$ is an excuse. Every GM is dealing with the cap.
You may or may not agree with this but it is my take on it and Mucks DID NOT deliver!!!
QUOTE=gbl1p;6000709]Please enlighten us as to the damage. And, please, explain to us how you would be able to afford keeping the team together as GM...
[/QUOTE]

Uh huh. Is that all?

Some of you who are real peeved at the way things are going down as a result of the new NHL see fit to scapegoat Muckler, which is fine by me, I just don't understand it. By no means is Muckler off the hook, but you people must have some damn good clairvoyance to call this a bust in July.

If the likes of Hossa, Havlat, Chara, et al., were retainable, do you honestly think the guy would have dealt them/let them walk? Christ, we're still up against the cap without them. What am I missing??

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