HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Would you take this?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-05-2006, 11:34 AM
  #76
Montrealer
Registered User
 
Montrealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chambly QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,470
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Uhh, Did I critize anyone for going against my opinion? Don't be so quick at saying im against other people opinions, this is an honest discussion without ************ or personnal attacks thus far I think.(More me trying to say why we shouldnt do it, devil's advocate stylez )

Beside that Kostitsyn evaluation does not come from me, many other HFboarder said the same and it got me thinking. And I somewhat agree that Kostitsyn got that special star potential. (Patrick Roy is that 20 years ago dude...) Thus far its just potential, the jury will be out for him in the next 3 years in the NHL. All im saying is, why not gamble on him. And trade other expandable assets that we have anyway?!
I am not saying you're attacking anyone; I'm just saying you might want to take a step back and realize that Kostitsyn is not the sure-fire superstar prospect that you believe him to be. At the same time, it's your opinion and that's fine, like you say it's all about the discussion and seeing different people's opinions.

That being said, Koivu was easily more heralded than Kost... and Terry Ryan was supposed to be that power forward that we had been missing since time eternal.

Montrealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 11:35 AM
  #77
Netro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
Flyers fan here. Clarke seems to be having a little trouble signing Gagne. I still think a deal will eventually get done, but its fun to throw this sort of thing out there. how about Gagne for Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, and a 2nd rounder next year?
I am not saying that this is not a fair proposal but in today's NHL, need to consider the financial implications of the deal. Perezhogin and Kostitsyn will be cheap for many more years and Gagne will be expensive and based on that alone, I would say No to this deal.

In addition, I expect a breakout year from Perezhogin this year (20 goals) and considering the potential of Kostitsyn, I don't think it makes sense for the Habs.

Netro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 11:38 AM
  #78
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artie View Post
Expendable assets will not get you Gagne type players. Now it may just be that you value Kost a lot more than I do. Our philosophies differ to a slight degree. I would be tempted to do it, you are not. That's okay.

The Leclair example is not entirely the same thing. Kosts has not proven yet that he can play at the NHL level. Leclair had. IMO adding Desjardins to that deal was what made it a dumb deal.

The Toronto example is not very good. They traded their prospects for established veterans when they thought thay had a legitimate shot at the cup. Most of those deals were deadline deals. Not to mention that the philosophy from (IMHO) Pat Quinn was not youth oriented.
If our current expandable assets cannot give us a Gagné(something I doubt considering phily needs in goal.) then its a sign that we have to be even more patient and keep going for 1 and 2. When we will have enough depth, like Anaheim, then trades will happen.(We are what? 1 year away imo.)

Plus theres the whole Lecavalier time bomb in TB. Who do you prefer Gagné or Lecavalier? Since we are talking about a blockbuster trade? Tortorella-Lecavalier is one nasty couple, who knows what will happen if TB gets on a bad streak at the start of the season. I prefer Lecavalier too Gagné for various reasons:

1)Hes a montrealer
2)Hes a center
3)Hes under contract

The aura of Lecavalier is still outhere on the market even with no trade discussions going on because of the current situation of TB.

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 11:40 AM
  #79
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealer View Post
I am not saying you're attacking anyone; I'm just saying you might want to take a step back and realize that Kostitsyn is not the sure-fire superstar prospect that you believe him to be. At the same time, it's your opinion and that's fine, like you say it's all about the discussion and seeing different people's opinions.

That being said, Koivu was easily more heralded than Kost... and Terry Ryan was supposed to be that power forward that we had been missing since time eternal.
Bad dreams...Terry Ryan...

I think its just the nature of online boards creating communication problems , I think I have that step back, Im just saying, on potential, we cant afford to give him away imo.

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 11:45 AM
  #80
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
no thanks. But I would take Ryder and Kostitsyn and you can make that 2nd rounder a 3rd. Actually, I like this deal better than the original one that i proposed.
Done

Beakermania* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 01:34 PM
  #81
Artie
Registered User
 
Artie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal, Que
Country: Italy
Posts: 4,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
If our current expandable assets cannot give us a Gagné(something I doubt considering phily needs in goal.) then its a sign that we have to be even more patient and keep going for 1 and 2. When we will have enough depth, like Anaheim, then trades will happen.(We are what? 1 year away imo.)

Plus theres the whole Lecavalier time bomb in TB. Who do you prefer Gagné or Lecavalier? Since we are talking about a blockbuster trade? Tortorella-Lecavalier is one nasty couple, who knows what will happen if TB gets on a bad streak at the start of the season. I prefer Lecavalier too Gagné for various reasons:

1)Hes a montrealer
2)Hes a center
3)Hes under contract

The aura of Lecavalier is still outhere on the market even with no trade discussions going on because of the current situation of TB.
Personally there are too many question marks about our prospects. Kosts, Latendresse, Chip, Price all seem to leave something to be desired. Having said all that, it makes no difference what you or I think, it all depends what Bob and Bob think of the prospects. That's what will dictate whether the rigger gets pulled on a deal. We will sit back and CRITIQUE lol.

I thought we were getting Lecavalier for Zed, Ribs, Aebie and of course A 2ND ROUND PICK.

Artie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 01:40 PM
  #82
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artie View Post
Personally there are too many question marks about our prospects. Kosts, Latendresse, Chip, Price all seem to leave something to be desired. Having said all that, it makes no difference what you or I think, it all depends what Bob and Bob think of the prospects. That's what will dictate whether the rigger gets pulled on a deal. We will sit back and CRITIQUE lol.

I thought we were getting Lecavalier for Zed, Ribs, Aebie and of course A 2ND ROUND PICK.

I lawled.

We are like hyper-sensitive with the big movements Bob made.

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 01:46 PM
  #83
wholeshow*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,767
vCash: 500
kostitsyn has all of the tools to be a superstar, he has a shot that registers around 100mph mark, and destroyed everyone at the bulldogs speed competition (a competition that included plekanec, higgins and trevor daley who are considered as speed demons in their own right). The kid is a beast. Did anyone see his goal against the kazaks at the world championships back in may? His blistering slap shot will make goaltenders run for cover.
He's also built like a tank and very difficult to move off the puck, wins battles along the boards and has improved his defensive play immensely in his past season down in hamilton.
He's very young and still adapting to the new style of not only hockey but life in general. I hope he improves on his conditioning though as he gets winded rather easily.

I'm very high on andrei, and i can understand how some posters may be reluctant to deal him.

wholeshow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 01:55 PM
  #84
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
kostitsyn has all of the tools to be a superstar, he has a shot that registers around 100mph mark, and destroyed everyone at the bulldogs speed competition (a competition that included plekanec, higgins and trevor daley who are considered as speed demons in their own right). The kid is a beast. Did anyone see his goal against the kazaks at the world championships back in may? His blistering slap shot will make goaltenders run for cover.
He's also built like a tank and very difficult to move off the puck, wins battles along the boards and has improved his defensive play immensely in his past season down in hamilton.
He's very young and still adapting to the new style of not only hockey but life in general. I hope he improves on his conditioning though as he gets winded rather easily.

I'm very high on andrei, and i can understand how some posters may be reluctant to deal him.
Same evaluation from me, and his World Championship performance with Grabovski was stunning.(I was kinda worried before that happened.)

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 02:20 PM
  #85
Artie
Registered User
 
Artie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal, Que
Country: Italy
Posts: 4,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Same evaluation from me, and his World Championship performance with Grabovski was stunning.(I was kinda worried before that happened.)
Well I haven't seen enough of him so I'll take your word on it.

For the record my choices that year were Getzlaf or Kesler.

I'd be thrilled if he proves me wrong.

Artie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 02:24 PM
  #86
wholeshow*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Same evaluation from me, and his World Championship performance with Grabovski was stunning.(I was kinda worried before that happened.)
grabovsky is someone who i would like to see at the habs training camp. he's not big, but wow he was more impressive than ovechkin and crosby at the world championships (he was voted top center of the tournament)...could he be our no.2 centerman?

wholeshow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 02:42 PM
  #87
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
grabovsky is someone who i would like to see at the habs training camp. he's not big, but wow he was more impressive than ovechkin and crosby at the world championships (he was voted top center of the tournament)...could he be our no.2 centerman?
Hes the wildcard of that camp imo, and may be the reason why Gainey didnt go overboard on UFAs. Hes the kind of center needed with Kovalev, the kid got wheels! Kovalev+Center with Wheels=Open ice=goals!

I found Crosby impressive personnaly, 18th year old best scorer of the tournament? Ok, him and Bergeron are just crazy together.

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 04:02 PM
  #88
Squeaky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
The bulldogs was a team for the habs and the oilers, Kost was called up 2 or 3 times, therefore, he was always reinserted on the 3rd, 2nd line instead of being a clintch first liner. My trust is in Timmins from what I have seen, Kost can score more pts in the NHL this year than in the AHL last year.

Kost is more ready this summer than Higgins was last summer. Higgins got a little 6 more pts in a complete AHL year with Thomas Pleckanec on his line nearly all year. Beside, AHL stats are very often not representative of the NHL performance level.
Higgins was a far more rounded player. I strongly disagree with that statement.

Squeaky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 04:12 PM
  #89
Squeaky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
kostitsyn has all of the tools to be a superstar, he has a shot that registers around 100mph mark, and destroyed everyone at the bulldogs speed competition (a competition that included plekanec, higgins and trevor daley who are considered as speed demons in their own right). The kid is a beast. Did anyone see his goal against the kazaks at the world championships back in may? His blistering slap shot will make goaltenders run for cover.
He's also built like a tank and very difficult to move off the puck, wins battles along the boards and has improved his defensive play immensely in his past season down in hamilton.
He's very young and still adapting to the new style of not only hockey but life in general. I hope he improves on his conditioning though as he gets winded rather easily.

I'm very high on andrei, and i can understand how some posters may be reluctant to deal him.
Uh, what? He came in tied for 3rd out of 6. Kostitsyn clocked in at 13.90, while he was beaten by Ferland (13.45) and Ivanans (13.70) and tied Milroy.

http://www.canoe.ca/Bulldogs/News/20...14/960967.html

Squeaky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 04:14 PM
  #90
Squeaky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
grabovsky is someone who i would like to see at the habs training camp. he's not big, but wow he was more impressive than ovechkin and crosby at the world championships (he was voted top center of the tournament)...could he be our no.2 centerman?
Grabovsky is a winger for the most part. I have strong doubts he'll play much at center in the NHL.

Squeaky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 04:22 PM
  #91
coolguy21415
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 9,285
vCash: 500
As for my weighing in, I wouldn't do the trade. We'd be trading 6-8 years of pretty good talent, reasonably in exchange for 3 years of Gagne. Montreal isn't expecting to win next season, and since Gagne likely wouldn't be playing with many prospects, it's really not worth it. Trades should aim to improve your team for the period in which you're aiming to win the cup. That period is 3-4 years for Montreal, we might as well take a gamble on familiar talent.

coolguy21415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 07:09 PM
  #92
loadie
Official Beer Taster
 
loadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Reread.

I said Kostitsyn is a Frolik nearly developped.(Meaning frolik in 3 years, clouds less.) Why I compared the two? Because both started their respective draft year pretty high in the rankings and slides a bit(for various reasons), but keeping their high ceiling. Kostitsyn today is developped and seem to have overcome everything he needed to so now he can become a very successfull NHLer, no more clouds over his head, its time to throw him in there and let him play.
I did reread it, and I find it confusing to be honest. Having read what you say now, you've made your point clearer and I understand what you were trying to get across earlier. We don't have a shot at Gagne anyways, so I'll just leave any more arguing for another time. Cheers.

loadie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 07:17 PM
  #93
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
Flyers fan here. Clarke seems to be having a little trouble signing Gagne. I still think a deal will eventually get done, but its fun to throw this sort of thing out there. how about Gagne for Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, and a 2nd rounder next year?
thats one of the smarter trade ideas out there...

I think it would be solid for both teams

Flyers add a lot of needed speed and they often do well with their drafting.

The only risk on the flyer side (but also a risk from the habs side depending on how you look at it) is that you are trading a proven guy for three unproven assets. But I think perez and kostitsyn will be fine down the road.

From the habs point of view, its very acceptable.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 07:34 PM
  #94
wholeshow*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
Uh, what? He came in tied for 3rd out of 6. Kostitsyn clocked in at 13.90, while he was beaten by Ferland (13.45) and Ivanans (13.70) and tied Milroy.

http://www.canoe.ca/Bulldogs/News/20...14/960967.html
good job, but he was faster than the guys i mentioned. notice how he got the hardest shot as well (well tied with hainsey, but he had the highest average)?
guess not.

thank you, come again.

wholeshow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 07:37 PM
  #95
wholeshow*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
Grabovsky is a winger for the most part. I have strong doubts he'll play much at center in the NHL.
uhm, he played as center at the world championships. if he moves to the wing, then so be it. but i saw a few games and he's a very capable centerman.

wholeshow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 08:02 PM
  #96
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
Higgins was a far more rounded player. I strongly disagree with that statement.
Did he play in a world championship in the cinderella team?
How many games did he play in the NHL before this year?

I strongly disagree with your statement, for those reasons.

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 08:05 PM
  #97
Mr. Hab
Registered User
 
Mr. Hab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
thats one of the smarter trade ideas out there...

I think it would be solid for both teams

Flyers add a lot of needed speed and they often do well with their drafting.

The only risk on the flyer side (but also a risk from the habs side depending on how you look at it) is that you are trading a proven guy for three unproven assets. But I think perez and kostitsyn will be fine down the road.

From the habs point of view, its very acceptable.
Gagne?
He'll be with the Habs for what? 3-4-5 years at most. Receiving 5-6 mil. No guarantee he'll put up the same numbers he did with Philly. It could end up: we pay Gagne for what he did with Philly.
KEEP KOSTITSYN and PEREZHOGIN. They are perfect for the new NHL (speed, skills, not going to have 100-200 penalty minutes each...).
And they won't be UFA's for awhile.

Anyways...I'd prefer BERGERON for Souray, Plekanec and Aebischer!! But, that's another thread!!

Mr. Hab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 08:06 PM
  #98
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadie View Post
I did reread it, and I find it confusing to be honest. Having read what you say now, you've made your point clearer and I understand what you were trying to get across earlier. We don't have a shot at Gagne anyways, so I'll just leave any more arguing for another time. Cheers.
Ok I agree it was confusing, my bad.

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 09:27 PM
  #99
Squeaky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Did he play in a world championship in the cinderella team?
How many games did he play in the NHL before this year?

I strongly disagree with your statement, for those reasons.
Good enough for Belarus is not the same thing as good enough for the NHL. Cinderella team? Whetever. He played in 2 NHL games before this year, compared to a whopping 12 for Kostitsyn, not a huge difference.

On the other hand, Higgins had a little more AHL experience, including more experience in the AHL playoffs. He also had quite a bit more success at the AHL level. Higgins also didn't have nearly as much to adapt to in North America as Kostitsyn did. He was also a year older.

But all of that stuff is nonsense. I'm basing my opinion based on actually watching the players play, which I'm fortunate enough to do a few times each year because I live near Hamilton. I say Higgins was the more NHL-ready player due to what I consider to be his better hockey sense, defensive game, and how he handled himself in traffic and along the boards. To be fair, the style of game Higgins plays is a much easier one to adapt to the NHL than the style Kostitsyn plays. A better comparison for where Kostitsyn is now would be Perezhogin a year ago, imo.

Squeaky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2006, 09:31 PM
  #100
jpchabby
Registered User
 
jpchabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,596
vCash: 500
Even if it were for a player like Gagné, I don't think I would trade Perezhogin and Kostitsyn... they are our best prospects offensively, and I don't think I'd like to get Gagné for these two guys...

Kostitsyn has all the skills to be an incredible player in the future, I don't see why we would trade him, even if it were for Gagné... plus, gagné is from Quebec, and I fear that when he comes here, everyone expects a lot of him and that he has difficulties... we would've lost 2 prospects for a player who didn't answer to the expectations.

jpchabby is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.