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Kings get Cloutier

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:31 PM
  #51
Beauty, eh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
We gave up a 2nd RD pick for a goaltender we don't need?

This is sickening.


Have you taken into consideration that fact that Lombardi may not be done yet? Relax.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:32 PM
  #52
Mitchnesses
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Not bad since we didn't give up much for him. We get a veteran goaltender for a couple of picks. This gives us time to groom Bernier and shop Garon and LaBarbera around if needed.

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07-05-2006, 03:32 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Hatter View Post
yeah, OR we could have had 2 second round draft picks in what is said to be a very deep draft
Exactly.

I DO NOT like this trade. BLECH!!!

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07-05-2006, 03:32 PM
  #54
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I wouldn't say all of the negativity towards Cloutier's abilities in Vancouver is not justified, but he is a much better goalie than most fans of the Canucks give him credit for.
At the very least he has been a very good regular season goalie, and has looked pretty damn good in some playoff games (definatly won them multiple games). He's also played some stinkers, especially against Minnesota, but few people seem to accept that many of those goals *also* came as a result of extreamly poor defensive coverage by the Canucks forwards and defense.

By each playoff year:

1st Round Loss to Colorado : Vancouver was outmatched, Cloutier didn't hurt, and he didn't help.

1st Round Loss to Detroit : At the very least he won 1 of 2 of the first games for the team, maybe even both (having trouble remembering). Obviously let in the long bomb from Lidstrom, but up until that point he was playing very, very well. Especially when Vancouver's star players had disappeared almost entirely.


1st Round Win over St.Louis : Along with the entire team, was awful in game 1. In game 2 he made many key stops to hold onto Vancouver's slim lead, definatly won the game, people were chanting his name in the streets afterwards (went to the game). Vancouver lost the next two games, I don't recall Cloutier playing amazingly well, but he was decent, and the rest of the team (again the star players disappeared) was fairly non existant. For games 5 and 6 he was good, and he was a large part of the game 7 victory.


2nd Round Loss to Minnesota : Was great in game one, decent in game two which was a narrow loss. Played fairly well for the next two games, especially game 4, putting Vancouver up 3-1 in the series. Then Vancouver's players jumped the shark, strayed from their perfect game 4 strategy (play Minnesota's game to avoid the counterattack), and were spanked horribly in games 5 and 6 (both the team and Cloutier, the defense was awful, forwards non existant). Game 7 he was playing pretty well, fell victim to two flukey goals after Vancouver was up 2-0. Going into the third he let in some weak one(s), again Vancouver's defense and forwards were nowhere to be found.

First Round Loss to Calgary : Played well in all the games, then suffered an injury.

Lockout in Austria : Took his team to the league final, suffered another injury to his hip or knee, and was given poor medical advice which kept him out of the final 2 games. If I recall it was some sort of freezing, if he hadn't gotten it he would have been able to continue playing.


Anyways, good luck to Cloutier and your team next season, hopefully he can put aside his past and become the goalie a minority in Vancouver always believed he could be.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:37 PM
  #55
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As a longtime Canuck fan, I'll say this for your doubters:

1. Cloutier has 3 x 30 win seasons
2. Reportedly popular, spirited guy in dressing room.
3. Has been NHL player of week on various occasions
4. Won't take crap, likes to throw 'em
5. Won't have fickle Vancouver crowd eagerly waiting for every mistake
6. Fast with good size
7. Doesn't whine to media about maltreatment
8. Bad rep mostly relates to one flukey goal 4 years ago
9. Injury history because coach had no faith in backup goalie
10. He's gotta be stoked about this trade and will compete hard for you guys.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:37 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
A 2nd-rounder doesn't seem so bad to me. I'm really glad that no players were given up, especially not Garon. I'm not really happy about the deal, but I'm not that upset, either. Think of it this way: Frolov didn't go in this deal. Also, yeah, paying him $2.55M is a lot, but it comes off of the books next Summer, when he becomes a UFA. This is a little insurance so that Garon doesn't have to be pushed so hard. I just hope that Crawford doesn't show him favoritism and always plays the best goalie at any moment.
Is this situation not somewhat similar to the Roenick situation last year? This is basically just a salary dump for Vancouver, just like the Philly/Roenick situation. Van is lucky to have even found someone willing to take Clouts off their hands.

But what did we give up for Roenick? I think we got Roenick and a draft pick for future considerations. That was a good deal.

We should have done a similar deal in this situation. We were doing VAN a favor, just like we did with Phillie. DT would not have given up a 2nd rounder for Cloutier. It should have been future considerations, or a very low draft pick. Van was forced into a corner, they had to deal Clouts, that gives DL the upper hand in bargaining. Unfortunatley he didn't take advantage of the situation.

Stupid move.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:39 PM
  #57
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Count me as one who believed we were adding to our goaltending, but this would not have been my first choice, and I think we overpaid. Who exactly were we competing against?

We helped out a team in the same conference who had a superfluous player/contract, and gave up a 2nd round draft pick for that right. 2nd round picks matter. If this is the player and situation (1 year remaining on contract) we wanted, okay, but I would have guessed the compensation was less.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:39 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty, eh? View Post


Have you taken into consideration that fact that Lombardi may not be done yet? Relax.
Well that's what I'm hoping for. But I'm not optomistic.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:39 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by jt View Post
That pretty much says it all IMO.

The Kings don’t “need” a goalie. The Canucks “needed” to get rid of a goalie. And DL gives away a 2nd rounder for an injury prone 30 year old they are (over)paying $2.55 million? Cloutier is (probably) an upgrade in talent but with his injuries is he an overall upgrade? We’ll certainly never know since Garon will never get the chance to be the #1 in LA next season.

I’ve got a sick feeling in my stomach right now, but I will say that DL has gone WAAAY out on a limb with this deal and just like Cechmanek was for DT, this will be a helluva litmus test for DL.
Injury prone is not all that accurate. Cloutier was out last season, but he played approximately 60 games/season in the three seasons b4 the lockout.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:39 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by mitchrock View Post
Not bad since we didn't give up much for him. We get a veteran goaltender for a couple of picks. This gives us time to groom Bernier and shop Garon and LaBarbera around if needed.
Who in the hell to?

Code:
Avalanche	Theodore		Budaj	
Blackhawks	Khabibulin	Lalime	
Blue Jackets	Leclaire		Norrena	
Blues		Sanford		Bacashihua	
Bruins		Toivonen		Thomas	
Canadiens	Huet		Aebischer	
Canucks		Luongo		Noronen	
Capitals		Kolzig		Johnson	
Coyotes		Cujo		Morrison	
Devils		Brodeur		does it matter?	
Ducks		Bryzgalov		Giguere	
Flames		Kiprusoff		does it matter?	
Flyers		Niittymaki	Esche	
Hurricanes	Ward		Grahame	
Islanders		DiPietro		Snow	
Kings		Cloutier		Garon			LaBarbera
Lightning		Denis		Burke	
Maple Leafs	Raycroft		Tellqvist	
Oilers		Roloson		Markkanen	
Panthers		Auld		??	
Penguins		Fleury		Thibault	
Predators		Vokoun		Mason	
Rangers		Lundqvist		Weekes	 	Montoya
Red Wings	Osgood		Howard	
Sabres		Miller		Biron	
Senators		Gerber		Emery	
Sharks		Toskala		Nabokov	 	Schaefer
Stars		Turco		Ellis	
Thrashers	Lehtonen	Hedberg	Brathwaite
Wild		Fernandez	Harding


Last edited by jt: 07-05-2006 at 03:46 PM.
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Old
07-05-2006, 03:40 PM
  #61
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this is what we traded for...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7BEwvuNBp08

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:41 PM
  #62
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i'm not incredibly upset by this move...our goaltending had great potenital but was still shaky last season....Larbarbera had 1 good month and was terrible the rest of the season...Garon had 1-2 good months and was also pretty miserable for the rest...this equation makes for extremely unreliable goaltending and a bad overall season for the team...

so the bottom line is this: DL clearly saw a need for improvement in net from last season...this move undoubtedly improves our goaltending situation in ways a Garon/Labarbera tandem could not have...plus, if i recall correctly, Cloutier may be even younger than Garon with greater potential...so a replacement may be going on here...Garon + FW to a team desperate for goaltending?

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:43 PM
  #63
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the trade, not so bad in itself. but a 2nd rounder??? we're doing them a favor by taking his $2.55M contract off for this season but hey, let's sweeten the pot, a 2nd rounder as well. a 3rd or 4th would've been ok but this just seemed like it was too much with next year's draft to be one of the deeper ones.

and come deadline time, i'm not so confident we'll be able to get that draft pick back like everyone else is. what pieces do we have to trade that would give us so much? granted, everyone overpays at that time but it also depends on how the players perform and where we are in the standings (let's face it, with these moves, we're not shooting for the bottom). although not a top-tier team, this team has enough to compete for a spot. if that's the case, then we're not trading away pieces for draft picks if we're making a playoff run unless we trade our depth. and btw, teams looking to get into the playoffs aren't going to trade anything high at the deadline for cloutier given his reputation.

who knows, cloutier may surprise us and i sure hope he does, after recovering from the injury. and the offseason isn't over so there's definitely time for things to happen. but looking at the goaltending logjam right now, i'm betting it's garon that's going (unlike what everyone else believes). i guess time will tell.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:44 PM
  #64
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1) A 2nd rounder is too much to give up for a salary dump. (See the Roenick trade)

2) This trade prevents us from acquiring a top 6 forward.

3) Clouts is not a significant upgrade.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:45 PM
  #65
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I think we significantly overpaid. I don't like the deal at all.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:47 PM
  #66
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People may not like the trade now, but IMO you guys got a very good goaltender. Cloutier is an upgrade over the guys you had down there already and he was close to being healthy enough to return to the lineup this season even so he'll no doubt be ready for the start of the year in October. He takes way too much unfair bashing from people about his performances in the playoffs when the team was probably just as, if not more at fault than he was. He has the ability to steal games and he's a very competitive guy. He's great in the room and is a legit #1 NHL goaltender who has the talent to post 30 win seasons with regularity. If Crawford doesn't overplay him, he should be solid in the postseason for you guys. Plus, for 2.5M there weren't many better options out there at the price he's at, that's a steal for a starting goaltender if you ask me. I hope Clouts plays well for you guys, he's a likeable guy and I would like to see him succeed.

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07-05-2006, 03:49 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt View Post
Exactly.

I DO NOT like this trade. BLECH!!!
Well, it doesn't happen very often, but I agree with you on this one. If he wanted Cloutier, DL should have played a little poker here. It's not as if everyone was banging on the door to take Cloutier off Nonis's hands. I think we could have done a Roenick type deal here as Vancouver was in cap hell or at least forced them to take Sopel or Miller off our hands.

Did we have two second round picks next year?

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:51 PM
  #68
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Cloutier?

A 2nd rounder for a barely average goalie? Waste of a pick.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:51 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by skolgoar View Post
Injury prone is not all that accurate. Cloutier was out last season, but he played approximately 60 games/season in the three seasons b4 the lockout.
Fair enough...I'm assuming that a 30 year old goalie who had a MAJOR knee injury with MAJOR surgery is now injury prone. He may not be and if he plays 50-60 games next season, I'll be surprised (and the first to admit I was wrong). Still, a second round pick for TAKING a salary dump when there probably wasn't a single other team bidding for him?

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:54 PM
  #70
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I don't entirely like the move but,

Garon+Cloutier > Garon+Labarberra

I think most people will agree with this.

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07-05-2006, 03:55 PM
  #71
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Fair enough...I'm assuming that a 30 year old goalie who had a MAJOR knee injury with MAJOR surgery is now injury prone. He may not be and if he plays 50-60 games next season, I'll be surprised (and the first to admit I was wrong). Still, a second round pick for TAKING a salary dump when there probably wasn't a single other team bidding for him?

Thats what I just CANNOT understand? Why pay so much when WE are taking the salary and doing the Canucks a favor????

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:55 PM
  #72
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Well, it doesn't happen very often, but I agree with you on this one. If he wanted Cloutier, DL should have played a little poker here. It's not as if everyone was banging on the door to take Cloutier off Nonis's hands. I think we could have done a Roenick type deal here as Vancouver was in cap hell or at least forced them to take Sopel or Miller off our hands.

Did we have two second round picks next year?
So how does it feel to finally have a right opinion?

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:56 PM
  #73
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Thats what I just CANNOT understand? Why pay so much when WE are taking the salary and doing the Canucks a favor????
At the moment I seriously question DL's negotiating abilities.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:59 PM
  #74
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People may not like the trade now, but IMO you guys got a very good goaltender. Cloutier is an upgrade over the guys you had down there already and he was close to being healthy enough to return to the lineup this season even so he'll no doubt be ready for the start of the year in October. He takes way too much unfair bashing from people about his performances in the playoffs when the team was probably just as, if not more at fault than he was. He has the ability to steal games and he's a very competitive guy. He's great in the room and is a legit #1 NHL goaltender who has the talent to post 30 win seasons with regularity. If Crawford doesn't overplay him, he should be solid in the postseason for you guys. Plus, for 2.5M there weren't many better options out there at the price he's at, that's a steal for a starting goaltender if you ask me. I hope Clouts plays well for you guys, he's a likeable guy and I would like to see him succeed.
I hope you're right, but I am not optimistic.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:00 PM
  #75
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74-41-14 over the past 3 years

THAT is a winning goaltender

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