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Kings get Cloutier

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:03 PM
  #76
TheJoeMan
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Why are you guys complaining so much on a 2nd round pick? When was the last time a 2nd rounder made an impact on the Kings and how long did it take for that player to develope? The fact of the matter is the Kings haven't made the playoffs since 2002 and that has to change. Last year the Kings had a great offense but their defense and goaltending was poor. It's now a lot better. It's not like you guys traded away Cammileri or Frolov or anything. It's a second round pick. Even if that pick turns out to be another Patrice Bergeron that's still another year away. You guys need to make the playoffs THIS year.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:05 PM
  #77
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I dont like his stupid mask.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:08 PM
  #78
jt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBGB View Post
74-41-14 over the past 3 years

THAT is a winning goaltender
Or a winning team with a healthy first line and stellar defense.

Or do I need to pull out Stephane Fiset's stats with the Avs for you?

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07-05-2006, 04:09 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
Why are you guys complaining so much on a 2nd round pick? When was the last time a 2nd rounder made an impact on the Kings and how long did it take for that player to develope? [edit...] It's not like you guys traded away Cammileri or ...
You mean that guy we drafted with a 2nd round pick?

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:10 PM
  #80
CowMix
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Originally Posted by LGK Spanky View Post
You mean that guy we drafted with a 2nd round pick?

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:11 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Or do I need to pull out Stephane Fiset's stats with the Avs for you?
The mention of that name hurts.

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07-05-2006, 04:12 PM
  #82
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At the moment I seriously question DL's negotiating abilities.
it does seem like DL has a tnedency to overpay for veteran players

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:12 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
When was the last time a 2nd rounder made an impact on the Kings and how long did it take for that player to develope?
The last time = Michael Cammalleri (2001, 2nd round pick)

How long = 3~4 years

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:13 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBGB View Post
74-41-14 over the past 3 years

THAT is a winning goaltender
With a great team in front of him. I think this snippet from the LA Kings' press release is more telling:

Quote:
Originally drafted by the New York Rangers in the first-round (26th overall) of the 1994 NHL Entry Draft, Cloutier has a career record of 131-124-33, a 2.66 goals-against-average and a .902 save-percentage in 318 career regular season NHL games with the Canucks, Tampa Bay Lightning and Rangers. In 25 career post-season NHL appearances, Cloutier has a record of 10-13, a 3.31 goals-against-average and a .872 save-percentage.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:13 PM
  #85
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Good luck.

You have the amazing combination of Crawford and Cloutier whom Crawford will continue to play regardless of what happens.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:17 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CowMix View Post
this is what we traded for...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7BEwvuNBp08
Dont forget this...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=H4pGcutDsy8&search=cloutier

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:17 PM
  #87
Sam
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Overpayment. As others have mentioned, the Canucks had to get rid of Cloutier and, as jt's chart shows, it's not as if there are a lot of teams searching for a goalie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBGB View Post
74-41-14 over the past 3 years

THAT is a winning goaltender
92-43-22. Cechmanek's three year record with the Flyers.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:17 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
My only problem is that with one more goalie in the system that makes for another road block for Yutaka Fukufuji to get to Manchester this year. Oh well, maybe he'll have an unbelievable camp and displace Brust.
You know..
I like Fuku. Ive seen him play in person a couple of times, but even DT said he's very much a longshot to make it to a regular post (be it backup or starter) in the NHL. I tend to agree. That said, I am rooting for him.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:17 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBGB View Post
74-41-14 over the past 3 years

THAT is a winning goaltender
Anyone who wants to validate this trade based on talent, go right ahead. Talent wise, we win. However, I'm looking at it for the cost we paid vs. market value, and going by that method of thinking, we lost.

Badly.

I doubt more than 3-4 teams even so much as kicked the tires on Cloutier, especially at this point with Legace still out there. While adding a guy like Cloutier isn't the worst option, paying a 2nd and possibly a 3rd (does anyone know for certain the 3rd is only on the condition we resign him?) for him when he's 1) the Canucks back up 2) is coming off a major operation 3) has won all of one playoff series in his career REGARDLESS OF HOW THE TEAM PLAYED, 4) the team he was with was backed deep into a corner concerning the salary cap and 5) makes $2.55 million, which when combined with the other factors is a lot, makes little to no sense.

While I can agree he may have a worse rep than he deserves and should get a chance to prove his talents in an environment where he's not the scapegoat, I refuse to believe his value is a 2nd and potential 3rd. Sorry.

Also, what has Cloutier proven which Garon hasn't? That Cloutier has gotten three 30 win seasons and can go on hot stretches at times? Well Garon had a 30 win season in his first year as a starter with LA and we all know he can get hot. And most of us here, including myself, believe he underachieved. Personally, I'd rather give Garon one more year to see if he can be the go to guy or not before I turn to Cloutier. We all know he has the talent and I don't see a better year coming from Cloutier than what we just got from Garon, though he may be a little more consistent.

Whatever though, I'll give Lombardi and Crawford the benefit of the doubt here. Lombardi is a smart GM and I was extremely pleased to get him as GM and Crawford, while I'm not a fan of his, he has won a cup before and knows what it takes to get to the finals. And he obviously sees something in this guy, so we'll see.

But I'm not in favor of this deal simply because I'm sure we could have gotten him for a hell of a lot less than this.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:20 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGK Spanky View Post
You mean that guy we drafted with a 2nd round pick?
How long did it take for Cammalleri to have an impact on the Kings? What would you rather have: The Kings making the playoffs this year or hoping their now vacant pick will turn out to be an Michael Cammalleri?

Vancouver made the playoffs four years in a row with Cloutier in net and the one year he's hurt they miss the playoffs. This guy will get you into the playoffs and you're crying over a lost second round pick.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:21 PM
  #91
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Comparing this to the deal for JR....un****ingreal....


Last edited by Game Misconduct: 07-05-2006 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Flaming deleted
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07-05-2006, 04:21 PM
  #92
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Best Case Scenario: He pushes Garon for the #1 and pulls a Felix Potvin for the entire year and gets us to the playoffs

Worst Case Scenario: He plays 20 games backing up Garon and his 2.55 million salary is gone at the end of the year.

IMO, this trade is no big deal. Not a great deal, not a terrible one.

One thing is for sure, there has to be a trade (s) coming soon that would involve: Belanger, Kostopolous, Cowan, Armstrong, or LaBarbera.

We have too many players right now that can make the team.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:22 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbourn View Post
I don't entirely like the move but,

Garon+Cloutier > Garon+Labarberra

I think most people will agree with this.
100%

and if you could be >100%, I would be there with you.

And, as for jt's chart...

Avalanche Theodore Budaj
Blackhawks Khabibulin Lalime
Blue Jackets Leclaire Norrena
Blues Sanford Bacashihua *probably could use help
Bruins Toivonen Thomas
Canadiens Huet Aebischer
Canucks Luongo Noronen (Flaherty)
Capitals Kolzig Johnson
Coyotes Cujo Morrison (LeNeveu)
Devils Brodeur Clemmenson
Ducks Bryzgalov Giguere (Hurme)
Flames Kiprusoff does it matter?
Flyers Niittymaki Esche
Hurricanes Ward Grahame
Islanders DiPietro Snow
Kings Cloutier Garon LaBarbera
Lightning Denis Burke (the other foreigner they signed)
Maple Leafs Raycroft Tellqvist (Aubin)
Oilers Roloson Markkanen
Panthers Auld Anderson
Penguins Fleury Thibault
Predators Vokoun Mason (Finley)
Rangers Lundqvist Weekes (Montoya/Valiquette)
Red Wings Osgood Howard
Sabres Miller Biron
Senators Gerber Emery

Still in the ether: Conklin... Sauve... Hasek... Belfour... Boucher...

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:22 PM
  #94
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Here is a good video on Clout.....



http://youtube.com/watch?v=FRgjOVIinqA&search=cloutier




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Old
07-05-2006, 04:23 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 and 14 View Post
Comparing this to the deal for JR....un****ingreal....
I like you...


Last edited by Game Misconduct: 07-05-2006 at 04:29 PM. Reason: quote of flaming deleted
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Old
07-05-2006, 04:24 PM
  #96
CowMix
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Originally Posted by BigBadBert View Post
if he stopped it properly in the first place he wouldn't have to be in the place to make that second save

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:26 PM
  #97
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Also, let's remember that if you take a good look at the playoff teams that did well this year, they had solid goaltending overall, not just one guy.

Edmonton had Roloson, and when he got hurt, Jussi Markennen did a helluva job taking them to a game 7.

Carolina had Cam Ward and Martin Gerber...they won the Cup.

Anaheim had Giguere and Brzygalov. Giguere basically got them to the playoffs (not to mention the TEAM was playing well). Bryz got them far in the playoffs.

Buffalo had Miller but remember that Biron won 13 straight games at one point in 05-06.

Regardless of how they split time, you now have two goalies that are 1A and 1B goalies. It will be nice to have goalies push each other in camp to start the year.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:27 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CowMix View Post
if he stopped it properly in the first place he wouldn't have to be in the place to make that second save
Stopped it properly?
a shot across his body from a winger who just made the corner pick of his career WHILE curling?
youre obviously not a goalie.

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:34 PM
  #99
CowMix
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it hit the top of his pad and flipped up over heading toward the net

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Old
07-05-2006, 04:35 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbourn View Post
I don't entirely like the move but,

Garon+Cloutier > Garon+Labarberra

I think most people will agree with this.
And $2.55 mm in cap room > Cloutier

I am beginning to think DL does not understand the implications of the salary cap.

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