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Old
11-10-2003, 10:27 AM
  #26
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"Any top 10 pick the Leafs get could easily turn out to be a bust. And even when they do turn out, like Smyth, that doesn't neccessarily make you a Cup contender"

Your getting that the Leafs already have a decent group of prospects already. You add in a future superstar (Smyth type) player and you have a very solid group.

"The best thing the Leafs can do is to always remain a veteran team...but still draft and integrate good young players into the team.
Like Colorado, Detroit, Philadelphia, New Jersey"


Two things. First the Leafs core of vet. players won't be around after this season, so reamining a vet. team probably won't be much of an option. Second all those teams went through a rebuilding period, you have to build through the draft first, the Leafs don't have the ground work laid to be a team like that yet. With the core they could build by blowing the team they would be able to fit that mould.

"Actually at the time everyone was saying we weren't going to be able to survive in the much tougher Eastern Conference"

The Eastern conference is weaker, theres nothing else to it. The Leafs moved into the easier conference, and that definatly helped Quinns record with the leafs.

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11-10-2003, 10:43 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
"Any top 10 pick the Leafs get could easily turn out to be a bust. And even when they do turn out, like Smyth, that doesn't neccessarily make you a Cup contender"

Your getting that the Leafs already have a decent group of prospects already. You add in a future superstar (Smyth type) player and you have a very solid group.

"The best thing the Leafs can do is to always remain a veteran team...but still draft and integrate good young players into the team.
Like Colorado, Detroit, Philadelphia, New Jersey"


Two things. First the Leafs core of vet. players won't be around after this season, so reamining a vet. team probably won't be much of an option. Second all those teams went through a rebuilding period, you have to build through the draft first, the Leafs don't have the ground work laid to be a team like that yet. With the core they could build by blowing the team they would be able to fit that mould.

"Actually at the time everyone was saying we weren't going to be able to survive in the much tougher Eastern Conference"

The Eastern conference is weaker, theres nothing else to it. The Leafs moved into the easier conference, and that definatly helped Quinns record with the leafs.
The Leafs are a large market team.

I'm suggesting that they follow the model of other large market teams like Detroit, Colorado and New Jersey. All of whom have won Cups.

For some reason you're suggesting they follow the model of small market teams like Edmonton, Atlanta and Tampa Bay. None of whom have won Cups.

You seem to think that the Leafs can blow up the team, have a couple of rotten years, get some good draft picks then turn on a switch and be a good team again.

It doesn't work that way. If the Leafs were to completely blow up the team and go with youth, we'd be out of the playoffs for at least 5 years. Maybe 10.

And after all that, we'd be flat-out lucky to come out of it and be as good as a team as we are now.

Maybe you'd be content with stinking up the league for the next decade, but I wouldn't be.

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11-10-2003, 10:51 AM
  #28
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"I'm suggesting that they follow the model of other large market teams like Detroit, Colorado and New Jersey. All of whom have won Cups"

And all of which when through rebuilding processes and built those cup winning teams on early draft picks. Yzerman, Sakic, Brodeur - the stars and move valuable players for each team, early picks.

"For some reason you're suggesting they follow the model of small market teams like Edmonton, Atlanta and Tampa Bay"

But Tampa Bay has the second best record in the league and the Trashers aren't far behind (they are first and 4th in the east). They havn't won cups YET because those early picks are still young players, those teams WILL be cup contenders in a couple years. The Oilers are also hurt by a lack of money, they can draft great, but then they can't keep who they draft. And don't forget the Sens also built this way (as did the Wings, Avs and Devils about 10 years ago).

"It doesn't work that way. If the Leafs were to completely blow up the team and go with youth, we'd be out of the playoffs for at least 5 years. Maybe 10. Maybe you'd be content with stinking up the league for the next decade, but I wouldn't be"

I'd live with a bad team for a couple years if it was clear they were putting together a good team. How many good years does Sundin have left? 2 maybe 3? (and then take on year off for the strike, so were looking at 1 or 2). And once hes gone the leafs don't have a super-star franchise player to carry the team. Then what happens? I think a lot of people forget that the leafs have been riding on the shoulders of a #1 pick they were able to steal from Quebec, once hes gone they won't be able to get another one without drafting him.

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11-10-2003, 11:21 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
And all of which when through rebuilding processes and built those cup winning teams on early draft picks.
So? The Leafs have early draft picks on their team right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
Yzerman, Sakic, Brodeur - the stars and move valuable players for each team, early picks.
Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
But Tampa Bay has the second best record in the league and the Trashers aren't far behind (they are first and 4th in the east). They havn't won cups YET because those early picks are still young players, those teams WILL be cup contenders in a couple years
What's your point?

I already pointed out that teams like Tampa stunk up the league for close to a decade, with little to no playoff action.

I don't think any Leaf fan out there wants to see the Leafs be bottom feeders for the next 10 years.

In other words, building like Tampa is NOT an option.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
The Oilers are also hurt by a lack of money, they can draft great, but then they can't keep who they draft.
Fair enough.

But what about Boston? They had 2 top 10 picks in Thornton and Samsonov. They turned out great.

But is Boston any more of a contender than the Leafs are?

More proof that high draft picks won't gaurantee us huge success...even if the picks turn out well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
And don't forget the Sens also built this way (as did the Wings, Avs and Devils about 10 years ago).
The Sens? Another team that played terrible hockey for many years. Like established before, building like the Sens is not an option for the Leafs.

Wings, Avs and Devils all have had veteran teams for a long time. Yet they have drafted and developed their own star players.

They've had the best of both worlds. Veteran contending teams, yet strong drafting to provide great young players to build for the future.

That's what I want for the Leafs. What's wrong with that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
I'd live with a bad team for a couple years if it was clear they were putting together a good team.
Like I said before, it would take more than just a "couple years" of bad hockey before we become a strong team again.

Try more like 5-10 years of missing the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
How many good years does Sundin have left? 2 maybe 3? (and then take on year off for the strike, so were looking at 1 or 2). And once hes gone the leafs don't have a super-star franchise player to carry the team. Then what happens? I think a lot of people forget that the leafs have been riding on the shoulders of a #1 pick they were able to steal from Quebec, once hes gone they won't be able to get another one without drafting him.
You even said yourself in another thread that Steen is the heir apparent to Sundin.

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11-10-2003, 12:52 PM
  #30
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Blowing up this team is not an option. First of all the suggestion of getting 3 first round picks with what the Leafs have to offer isn't going to happen. And even "IF" these 3 picks did become available there's no way they're going to make an impact in the NHL for at least a few years. Example, Atlanta, yeah they've got an exciting young team to watch, but they're depending too much on a few players. Kovalchuk's point/game ratio will drop towards the middle of the season, there's just no way a player of that age can't get burned out living up to those expectations. Not to mention, you'd be a fool to think that Atlanta has a better chance of the cup than the Leafs. So the argument about them having "THE SAME" record as the Leafs is a moot point.

You honestly believe that Leaf management wouldn't get crucified by the fans and media if they followed these "blow up" plans. You've got questionably the most profitable team in the NHL looking to get rid of their high priced players for draft picks and youth? Never gonna happen unless someone's pulled off a major illusion with Ballard's death.

Also mentioned was Mike Johnson. I'd do that trade over again even knowing what's happened in between. I'd take Tucker anyday over Johnson. Felix Potvin left town because Cujo came aboard and the Leafs waited until the right deal came along, there wasn't much else Quinn nor any other GM could do at that point (see Detroit & Cujo). Corson quit due to health reason (worse than any of us know about according to Bill Watters) and his reduced ice time. His reduction in ice time was nothing to due with grudges or ill feelings, Corson wasn't performing on the ice and taking dumb penalties too often which in turn seemed to reflect on Darcy's performance.

As for the whole Eastern Conference/ Western Conference debate. The Leafs are tailored towards a Western style more wide open game so how would playing in the East inflate their stats by playing tight checking, trapping teams more often. I also believe their record against Western teams since moving to the East is at the least "very" respectable, but I'm going home now, so someone else can dig that one up.

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11-10-2003, 01:33 PM
  #31
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No no no no please god no!

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11-10-2003, 01:53 PM
  #32
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"So? The Leafs have early draft picks on their team right now"

None the Leafs drafted, and those guys are at the end of the primes, at the start of the next season (2005) Sundin and Nolan will both bein their mid-30's, and Jackman and Berg.... they are flop picks (for their position). Past this year they will lose a lot of their vet. base.

"I already pointed out that teams like Tampa stunk up the league for close to a decade, with little to no playoff action.
I don't think any Leaf fan out there wants to see the Leafs be bottom feeders for the next 10 years.
In other words, building like Tampa is NOT an option"


And now its paying off, they are playing great and have a solid core of players right and that they can build on. If Leaf fans saw a bright future (something they didn't have in the 80's) they'd put up with a few years of bad preformance.

"But what about Boston? They had 2 top 10 picks in Thornton and Samsonov. They turned out great.
But is Boston any more of a contender than the Leafs are?"


Whos in first place in the east? Oh ya, Boston. And they don't spend money either. Thats a franchise that could be a lot better then they are if they were willing to spend a few bucks, same boat as the Oilers (just different reaseons).

"That's what I want for the Leafs. What's wrong with that?"

So do I, but to get it you have to go through a couple bad years, its just the nature of hockey. The Senators and Tampabay and Atlanta will be in that position in 10 years when their young stars become vet. stars. If you don't do the rebuilding period and try to jump into that position you end up like the Rangers.

"Like I said before, it would take more than just a "couple years" of bad hockey before we become a strong team again.
Try more like 5-10 years of missing the playoffs."


Depending on what vets you bring in to completment the young players you have.

"You even said yourself in another thread that Steen is the heir apparent to Sundin"

In that hes the future #1 center and the glue guy, but hes also a playmaker. Hes like Adam Oates, a great player but nowhere near as good without someone like Hull on his wing.

"You honestly believe that Leaf management wouldn't get crucified by the fans and media if they followed these "blow up" plans"

Depends on how its handled. If they announce "the 5 year plan" or whatever and make good draft choices, make it bit more public how their young players are coming along etc.... Leaf fans are loyal enough to put up with it. Fans were mad when Clark was traded, but I doubt theres many fans who would reverse that deal if they could because they see how it was better for the future. Right away there would be out-rage but once they saw it paid off they'd happy with it.

"Not to mention, you'd be a fool to think that Atlanta has a better chance of the cup than the Leafs"

Right now, no they don't. But when their team is build on players like Kovalchuk, Heatly, Lethonen and Coburn and ours is build on Steen, Stajan, Tellqvist and Colaiacovo who do you think is going to have the better chance at the cup?

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11-10-2003, 02:25 PM
  #33
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And it comes down to this. With the team they have now are the Leafs going to win the cup? No, yes anything could happen, but they aren't favorites. So they could either make some trades and get the players they need to win (which would really gut their development system) or they play into the first or second round and get eliminated. Personlly, I don't see the point in doing that. Plus their superstar players (Sundin, Beflour, Mogilny, Nolan, Roberts, Neiuwendyk) will either retire after this season or play and be past their primes (some already are), so this is really the last season the Leafs have with this group of vets. Plus in 2005 the Leafs should (and probably will) have 4 rookie defensemen who will be NHL ready, not excatly the best situation to be in when your trying to win.

Given their situation, blowing up the team makes a lot of sense right now.

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11-10-2003, 03:29 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
Given their situation, blowing up the team makes a lot of sense right now.
You're repeating yourself again. You want to blow up the team.

I've given you a perfectly good reason why this shouldn't happen. They will miss the playoffs for about 5-10 years, with no gaurantees in the end that they will be any better off than they are now.

I want the Leafs to maintain a veteran team while drafting well and continually integrating young players into the mix. Following the likes of Detroit, New Jersey and Colorado.

Please explain why you think this is such a bad idea.

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11-10-2003, 03:51 PM
  #35
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I'm repeating myself again? Look at what you posted, but anyway.

"I've given you a perfectly good reason why this shouldn't happen. They will miss the playoffs for about 5-10 years, with no gaurantees in the end that they will be any better off than they are now"

Given the scouting staff the Leafs have now with Trapp at the head they've made some good later round picks and will be able to draft very well with some early picks. And no, there is no gaurantee, but the chances of them turning out better a very good.

"I want the Leafs to maintain a veteran team while drafting well and continually integrating young players into the mix. Following the likes of Detroit, New Jersey and Colorado"

THEY DON'T HAVE THE VETS OR THE BASE. I keep telling you, before you can get to that point you have rebuild. After this season the Leafs vets will be gone or past their primes, and I wouldn't want to want bet everyone on the chance they could get a good UFA, they may not have the salary room and the kind of vets they'd need to be a cup contender might not want to play on a team with a young defensive core and goalie (which is where the LEafs will be). For the last 10 years the Leafs have been built around Sundin, a first over all pick and they were able to do that without tanking for a couple years, they won't get that oppertunity again, and they won't get a player like that (at least not in his prime) unless they draft him, and they probably aren't going to draft him unless they get an early pick. If the Leafs try to do that now it would be like trying to build to the top of a building before the substructure is in place. Maybe you don't remember or weren't around at the time, but all those teams you keep mentioning (that have won cups?) were bottom feeders in the NHL year a few years and built the base for their teams through the draft using those early picks.

I asked you before, who do you think will be in a better position in 5 years. The Trashers (Kovalchuk, Heatly, Lehtonen, Coburn etc..) or the Leafs or Wings (they have some good prospects, but nothing like the players the Thrashers have).

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11-10-2003, 04:56 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
THEY DON'T HAVE THE VETS OR THE BASE.
They have a good veteran team, a good group of prospects and have almost as much spending power as any team in the league.

What more do you want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
After this season the Leafs vets will be gone or past their primes
You seem to think there's going to be a mass exodus. Roberts has made it clear he has no intention of retiring any time soon. Nieuwendyk's not done yet. Mogilny's got a few good years left. Sundin and Nolan aren't going anywhere. There's a good chance the core of this team will remain in tact.

Past their primes? Maybe. But that doesn't mean they're not good players anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
I wouldn't want to want bet everyone on the chance they could get a good UFA, they may not have the salary room and the kind of vets they'd need to be a cup contender might not want to play on a team with a young defensive core and goalie (which is where the LEafs will be).
No matter what happens with the CBA, there's always going to be UFA's and the Leafs will always be in a good position to sign them. Simple as that.

Count on it.

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11-10-2003, 05:11 PM
  #37
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I think you should just ignore him. Let him rant as I said when proven wrong he just continues to go in circles. As said there is no way a large market team like toronto will do what Slugo is saying. Second yes there will be vets retiring after next year but there is also going to be some young guys making the jump and also young guys given more of a chance * Stajan*. The leafs will always be able to sign free agents and one thing that is being tossed around is a lower age for UFA I think it was around 27 - 28 years old so that would make a larger market for the leafs and other teams to improve themselves from. I am so glad Slugo is not leafs GM he's gotta be old Harolds Clone or something.

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11-10-2003, 05:25 PM
  #38
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"You seem to think there's going to be a mass exodus. Roberts has made it clear he has no intention of retiring any time soon. Nieuwendyk's not done yet. Mogilny's got a few good years left. Sundin and Nolan aren't going anywhere. There's a good chance the core of this team will remain in tact.
Past their primes? Maybe. But that doesn't mean they're not good players anymore."


The vets the Leafs have can't win a cup now, and you expect them to be able when they are 40? And Roberts and Nieuwendyk can expect/want to play all they want, but I wouldn't bet on them coming back after the workstopage. Thats a long time to stay in shape, and they'd be taking a big pay cut. And their spending power won't mean that much with the new CBA.

"No matter what happens with the CBA, there's always going to be UFA's and the Leafs will always be in a good position to sign them. Simple as that.
Count on it"

IF they have roster space and IF they can offer as much as other teams and IF they want to play for the Leafs. If you were a 28 year old superstar player would you want to go to the Thrashers and play with Kovalchuk, Heatly etc.... or to the leafs and with a 34 year old Sundin, a 34 year old Nolan and rookie defensive core?

The one thing just about every team that has the won cup as in common (there are one or two exceptions) is that each went through a low period and build a solid core of players through the draft. You bring in UFA's to complement those drafted players. Normally you can't trade for a Sundin, you have to draft them, and those franchise players don't become UFA's very often because the teams won't part with them. Mogilny, Roberts, Nieuwendyk - all good players that I love to see as Leafs, but they aren't the superstar players they are supporting players. I honestly think that getting Sundin in that deal unvalued the draft in a lot of leaf fans eyes, they don't realize how next to impossible it is to get that player without drafting him.

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11-10-2003, 06:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
And it comes down to this. With the team they have now are the Leafs going to win the cup? No, yes anything could happen, but they aren't favorites. So they could either make some trades and get the players they need to win (which would really gut their development system) or they play into the first or second round and get eliminated. Personlly, I don't see the point in doing that.

Wow, assume much? Well we aren't favored so I guess there's no point in trying. Might as well just blow up the team and hope that after the next rebuild in 5 yrs we can be the favorites.

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11-10-2003, 07:15 PM
  #40
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loveshack2 - do you honestly think the Leafs are serious cup contenders this year? And given the age of the core of the team and the fact that next season probably won't happen, do you really think theres much point in making a run to the second round?

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11-10-2003, 07:47 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
loveshack2 - do you honestly think the Leafs are serious cup contenders this year? And given the age of the core of the team and the fact that next season probably won't happen, do you really think theres much point in making a run to the second round?

Slugo u have me wondering if you really are a leafs fan or not. U criticize the team every time you come on here. You want to see changes made that would put the team in a much worse position than you seem to think they are in now. You try to persuade everyone with your views on players or the direction you think this team should be going, when out of all the posters on this Maple Leaf board there may be two or three who agree with what you have to say, if that. Why in the hell would anyone want to scrap a team for this season. Anyhow, considering that I doubt many teams are willing to give up any talented youth or high picks with the uncertainties of CBA next season, so would you be content with other teams left overs or throw aways for our top players. Maybe you should go and join a FHL sim league and try your theories out there because that's about the only place your gonna see that happen, specially if you're the gm... PS if you do join one let me know I'd like to make a few deals with you..

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11-11-2003, 04:54 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
If you were a 28 year old superstar player would you want to go to the Thrashers and play with Kovalchuk, Heatly etc.... or to the leafs and with a 34 year old Sundin, a 34 year old Nolan and rookie defensive core?
Well, seeing as you're asking what "I'd" do. I would want to play in my home town and be close to my family. Or, if I were a young Swede I'd love to play alongside either Forsberg, Lidstrom or Sundin. "IF" I were a superstar young player, why would I want to go play on a team who's already giving up the majority of their budget on a few players (you said we're talking down the road), and I'm not talking about cap room, I'm talking about financial resources. "IF" I were a stud D-man, I'd jump at the opportunity to be the cog in this rookie defensive core in a hockey mad city where I'd get the money I deserve (possibly even more) and the recognition and media exposure that could assist in future contracts should I decide to leave this team (see Klee of present).

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11-11-2003, 06:53 AM
  #43
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"Or, if I were a young Swede I'd love to play alongside either Forsberg, Lidstrom or Sundin. "IF" I were a superstar young player, why would I want to go play on a team who's already giving up the majority of their budget on a few players (you said we're talking down the road), and I'm not talking about cap room, I'm talking about financial resources."

Well you wouldn't be a young Swede superstar being able to sign with the Leafs unless there is a cap (if there isn't the UFA age won't be lowered). So take one or the other. And a few years down the road Sundin probably won'tbe playing or will be in his last year. And sure there are a 100 different things that COULD happen in that situation, but making everything equel (ie - they have the same cap room and are offering the same money) which are they going to go too?

"I were a stud D-man, I'd jump at the opportunity to be the cog in this rookie defensive core in a hockey mad city where I'd get the money I deserve (possibly even more) and the recognition and media exposure that could assist in future contracts should I decide to leave this team "

As for the young stud thing, see above. And when your 28-31 years old and you havnt' won a cup, having a team that has a better chance being interested would trumbe what Toronto could offer (ie - can't get better media exposure then carrying that cup around the ice).

"U criticize the team every time you come on here"

I criticize them about things they deserve to be criticized about. I want to see the Leafs win a cup and become an NHL force, unfortunatly the way for that happen is tank a couple years and build through the draft.

"Anyhow, considering that I doubt many teams are willing to give up any talented youth or high picks with the uncertainties of CBA next season"

Depends on the team. I'm sure the Avs would give up a first round pick for Belfour. I'm sure a team like the Blue, Canucks maybe even the Devils would give up one to get Mogilny. You'd have to go those teams that are making a run for the cup this season.

And just think about this. Where would the Leafs have been in 95-99 (or so) without Sundin? Out of the playoffs (totally)? No superstar player to build the team around? Teams need that player to be successful, the Leafs got lucky and were able to trade for him at a young age and were able to avoid the poor seasons normally needed to get one. Those players rarely become UFA's because teams sign him asap because they don't want to give them up (and when they do they are either past their primes or near the end of their primes). Even those teams Leaf Army mention - once their star players leave(pretty soon) the Wing's and Avs will probably drop down in the league (avs more so then wings), they do have some good young players but not those superstar Yzerman, Sakic types, to carry the team.

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11-11-2003, 07:10 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
I criticize them about things they deserve to be criticized about. I want to see the Leafs win a cup and become an NHL force, unfortunatly the way for that happen is tank a couple years and build through the draft.
You think you have all the answers? Ha!

One year of 'sluggo' running the Leafs and the fans would be yearning for the Harold Ballard years. That's the truth.

I can just imagine... Luca Cereda centering our 3rd line. Jeff Heerema making fans forget about Alex Mogilny. Martin Skoula being a rock on defence....

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11-11-2003, 08:34 AM
  #45
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Leaf army - You can be as selective as you want when quoting me, but that doesn't change the fact that unless they gut their system this year they won't win the cup, and after this year they will be a weaker team - Blowing up the team makes sense at this point in time for the Leafs. And if you can get a Heerema with that first rounder for Mogilny, you're in much better shape then having Mogilny play this year and not win a cup.

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11-11-2003, 08:48 AM
  #46
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First of all Sluggo, I can't believe you actually took the time to try and
try and anylyze and state differently what "I'd" do in my above scenario . Your misquotes, strong opinions and ghost facts went to a new level when you tried to re-inform me of what "I" would do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
Leaf army - You can be as selective as you want when quoting me, but that doesn't change the fact that unless they gut their system this year they won't win the cup, and after this year they will be a weaker team
1. Gutting the system doesn't bring them any closer to the cup either, nor does it gaurantee a better team even five years down the road. Your laying too many cookies in the "IF" tray. Even the best scouts can't predict sure things outside of maybe the top three picks, remember Daigle?
2. How do you know the Leafs won't be a better team next year? Has JFJ contacted you and told you of his future plans regarding the trade deadline or off season acquisitions. Having an opinion is one thing and everyone is entitled to one regardless of how off the wall they are, but stating it as fact as you have done so many times is a tad bit too egocentrical.

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11-11-2003, 09:01 AM
  #47
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"1. Gutting the system doesn't bring them any closer to the cup either, nor does it gaurantee a better team even five years down the road. Your laying too many cookies in the "IF" tray. Even the best scouts can't predict sure things outside of maybe the top three picks, remember Daigle?"

If Ferguson guts their development system he could bring in players needed to make this team a cup contender (a #1 d-men, maybe another top 6 foward). And like I said, no getting some early picks isn't a sure thing, however your MUCH more likely to get that superstar franchise player using a top 10 pick then a 20th pick.

"2. How do you know the Leafs won't be a better team next year? Has JFJ contacted you and told you of his future plans regarding the trade deadline or off season acquisitions. Having an opinion is one thing and everyone is entitled to one regardless of how off the wall they are, but stating it as fact as you have done so many times is a tad bit too egocentrical."

I know you dont like to face facts, but there WON'T BE A NEXT YEAR. The next season for the NHL is 2005. And in 2005 they will have some kind of cap (becase the league isn't starting against until there is one) and past this seasn the Leafs have 8 players undercontract worth 24.7 million (so basically they'll have to find more then half a team for less then 10 million), they'll have a very young defensive core (not really a good thing to have when you want to win), Belfour will be gone or 40 years old (very nice). Of the Leafs top 5 fowards, at least 2 should be gone and the rest will be 33-40 years old (hell, theres a chance some players like Sundin might not come back either). The Leafs are built now as a win now (as in this year) team, if they aren't going to do what it takes to win now they should be building for their future.

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11-11-2003, 09:19 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
I know you dont like to face facts, but there WON'T BE A NEXT YEAR. The next season for the NHL is 2005.
This is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. Your opinions ARE NOT FACTS. Sure, I agree that there most likely will be a lockout in September and I've never said anything to the contrary, but I'd never state it as fact.

The whole point of proposals, ideas etc. is to place things in a hypothetical situation eg. If someone proposed Gomez to the Leafs we would hypothetically suggest lines. So if you say these kind of discussions are pointless because there's not going to be a season next year (WHICH IS SPECULATION NOT FACT), then don't get involved in them.

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11-11-2003, 09:25 AM
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Dar - ok, go stick your head in the sand. True theres a chance we'll get a hockey season in 2004, but its a very small one. And even if there is a season in 2004 are the Leafs in great shape for that season? Their core will just be another year old, a good chance Belfour will retire, they'll still have a couple rookie D-men ready to come up - still not a good position to be in make a cup run. And unless they are willing to make the trades they need to make to make their team a cup contender this year (and I don't know if I want to see them make those trades because they'll involve guys like Steen and Colaiacovo) then they can either stay the course and play a couple rounds of playoff hockey and be nowhere closer to abetter team in the future, or build for that future.

If they don't blow up the team and start to build for the future they'll be forced into that position in a couple years or they'll continue to be a "second best" team. They are in the perfect position to do that now - they have a lot of vets with a high trade value and they have a great support cast in their developmental system.

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11-11-2003, 09:37 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
And unless they are willing to make the trades they need to make to make their team a cup contender this year (and I don't know if I want to see them make those trades because they'll involve guys like Steen and Colaiacovo) then they can either stay the course and play a couple rounds of playoff hockey and be nowhere closer to abetter team in the future, or build for that future.
Dar's right. Once again, your stating your opinion as being fact. You're saying that the Leafs will surely play only a couple of playoff rounds.

How do know this? How can you say for sure that the Leafs won't make it to Finals? How do you know Ferguson can't improve the team without trading our top propects?

The fact is you don't know.

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