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who should the oilers get from trade or free agency?

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Old
07-09-2006, 07:32 AM
  #26
Lowetide
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Originally Posted by Master of Puppets View Post
Really?

I mean, they had Brewer (clearly more effective, at least in the old NHL than Markov is now), Smith and Staios as their top-3 for a good, what? Three seasons before the Pronger trade. I mean, I hate to join the doom and gloom, even though I don't think its as bad as some posters make it out to be but that backline is not looking too pretty at all.
I think a top 6D of Smith-Markov, Staios-Tarnqvist, Bergeron-Greene is NHL capable. Certainly not at a level of last season and Lowe would need to add if Greene can't step up into the 17-20M range (and I don't like the 3rd pairing) but there's some things to like with this top 6.

Smid coming along is a bonus. As for Brewer, I always liked him but he has some holes too.

Generally speaking, the older then D (until they can't skate anymore at all) the more effective. Oilers top 4D above has no one in the 20-25 range.

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07-09-2006, 08:31 AM
  #27
oil slick
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I'm hoping that they sign Markov - then trade MAB + some youth (Schremp) for a solid #1-2 dman. If noone is available now, this can happen nearer to the deadline when all the useless teams realize they aren't going to make the playoffs. I think we can still be in a playoff position by the trade deadline, now that we don't have abysmal goaltending.

As for the team being the same as 2003 - I don't see it too much. The offense is completely transformed from two years ago, and with the addition of Lupul fills the only glaring void I saw in the offense. The top three lines on Edmonton are now solid.


And where does this 'who will ever listen to Lowe' comment come from T&T. Lowe seems to make his fair share of trades, and win his fair share of trades too.

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07-09-2006, 09:57 AM
  #28
Resolute
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Who is looking to deal a "solid 1-2 defenseman" though? Especially for Schremp and a bit part? Not that it isnt possible, I just don't see who matches up with Edmonton here.

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07-09-2006, 10:06 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
Who is looking to deal a "solid 1-2 defenseman" though? Especially for Schremp and a bit part? Not that it isnt possible, I just don't see who matches up with Edmonton here.
Bergeron's not quite a bit part. At this point he's a still young defenseman who has shown he CAN play in the NHL and score at a significant level.

The question is what level COULD have achieve.

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07-09-2006, 10:12 AM
  #30
oil slick
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Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
Who is looking to deal a "solid 1-2 defenseman" though? Especially for Schremp and a bit part? Not that it isnt possible, I just don't see who matches up with Edmonton here.
You don't think a non-playoff team would deal a good defensman for Schremp and a cheap decent defensman at the deadline? I guess it depends on the team, but I would think a pragmatic GM would be stupid not to.

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07-09-2006, 10:13 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by oil slick View Post
You don't think a non-playoff team would deal a good defensman for Schremp and a cheap decent defensman at the deadline? I guess it depends on the team, but I would think a pragmatic GM would be stupid not to.
At the deadline, certantly. Except that I believe the deadline will be too late for Edmonton. They need top end defensive help now. I just don't see where it will come from.

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07-09-2006, 10:15 AM
  #32
oil slick
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Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
At the deadline, certantly. Except that I believe the deadline will be too late for Edmonton.
Well I guess we differ there. I think if Edmonton does nab Markov, that the improvment to goaltending and forwards over last year will be enough to make up for the lack of Pronger.

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07-09-2006, 10:19 AM
  #33
shawnmullin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
At the deadline, certantly. Except that I believe the deadline will be too late for Edmonton. They need top end defensive help now. I just don't see where it will come from.
I don't see it. Add Markov or not, I think the defense with Roloson will be able to handle the load enough that our forwards will win us games.

However, I no longer feel we're a favourite for the division crown.

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07-09-2006, 10:28 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by shawnmullin View Post
I don't see it. Add Markov or not, I think the defense with Roloson will be able to handle the load enough that our forwards will win us games.

However, I no longer feel we're a favourite for the division crown.
You never were.

The problem is, with Pronger, the Oilers barely made the playoffs. Without him, they were a lottery team. Is the Oilers offense that much better in 2006-07 than it was in 05-06? I dont think so. Better, yes. But not good enough to overcome the defensive loss.

Roloson is certantly an upgrade on Conkanen, but at 37 years old, and a carreer backup, I question whether he can handle the load as a starter. I also question how well he will do without Pronger eating up 1/4 of the defensive minutes.

The only thing we can do is wait and see, but if I was in Kevin Lowe's shoes, I would be desperately searching for another defenseman. And this is assuming you guys can sign Markov despite the fact that Lowe has never had much luck landing free agents.

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07-09-2006, 10:35 AM
  #35
ChuckyToGally
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How about Souray for Shremp???


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07-09-2006, 10:35 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
You never were.

The problem is, with Pronger, the Oilers barely made the playoffs. Without him, they were a lottery team. Is the Oilers offense that much better in 2006-07 than it was in 05-06? I dont think so. Better, yes. But not good enough to overcome the defensive loss.
BARELY made the playoffs with awful goaltending. So subtract Pronger, add a good goaltender, add Lupul and Smid... I hardly think the team is worse than the group that finished 8th.

They ARE worse than the team that made the cup finals, but that's because the Oilers havn't picked up their rentals for this year yet. We'll see come trade deadline time.

And they never were? With Pronger and Roloson and having just come off making the cup finals, I'd say they were without a doubt the favourites to win the division.

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07-09-2006, 10:38 AM
  #37
oil slick
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Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
You never were.

The problem is, with Pronger, the Oilers barely made the playoffs. Without him, they were a lottery team. Is the Oilers offense that much better in 2006-07 than it was in 05-06? I dont think so. Better, yes. But not good enough to overcome the defensive loss.
I think significantly better. From the top two lines, Hemsky, Stoll, and Torres are a year older, and the glaring whole on the rw is filled with Lupul. Add in Pouliot, Schremp, and Jacques to make the 4th line better, I think that's a significant improvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
Roloson is certantly an upgrade on Conkanen, but at 37 years old, and a carreer backup, I question whether he can handle the load as a starter. I also question how well he will do without Pronger eating up 1/4 of the defensive minutes.
Roloson has been questioned throughout his tenure as an Oiler and has answered the bell, but I didn't expect the questioning to stop now. I guess We'll have to wait and see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
The only thing we can do is wait and see, but if I was in Kevin Lowe's shoes, I would be desperately searching for another defenseman. And this is assuming you guys can sign Markov despite the fact that Lowe has never had much luck landing free agents.
True - if we don't land Markov and no trades, we're screwed. With Markov, I think our defense is alot like the Flames offense last year... good enough to get through the regular season, not good enough to be a threat in the playoffs.

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Old
07-09-2006, 10:39 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
I think a top 6D of Smith-Markov, Staios-Tarnqvist, Bergeron-Greene is NHL capable. Certainly not at a level of last season and Lowe would need to add if Greene can't step up into the 17-20M range (and I don't like the 3rd pairing) but there's some things to like with this top 6.
I was thinking the same yesterday. If Lowe can sign Markov (and the way things have been going this summer, that's hardly a lock...) then I don't think things are nearly as bad as they looked last week before Tjarnqvist arrived.

That's hardly a top 4 that is going to strike fear into the hearts of opponents, but I don't think they would get torched often either. It should be a defensively reliable group. The bigger worry to me is puck movement and passing.


People seem to be using the group that we finished the season with (Pronger, Spacek, Smith, Staios, Bergeron, Tarnstrom) as the yardstick of the Oilers' defense, but they're forgetting that we only had that group together for 31 games. We went 51 games with a group that had Ulanov and Cross on the bottom pairing, and Marc-Andre Bergeron getting top-4 minutes.

Obviously having Chris Pronger on the ice for half the game covered up some of the warts that plagued the defense during that first half of last season, particularly his ability to make Bergeron play better. This season, we won't have Pronger's all-around ability on the ice, but we also might not have some of the glaring vulnerabilities that we had while he was on the bench.


But that depends on bringing in 1 more guy, be it Markov or some other option.

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Old
07-09-2006, 11:11 AM
  #39
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Why do Flames fans of all people keep bringing this point up? You realize I could jump in my car right now, and in just under 3 hours I could smack the grin off your face?
ahhhh pumpkin.

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07-09-2006, 11:02 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by shawnmullin View Post
BARELY made the playoffs with awful goaltending. So subtract Pronger, add a good goaltender, add Lupul and Smid... I hardly think the team is worse than the group that finished 8th.
As awful as your goaltending was, the Oilers had a better record pre-Rolosn than they did post-Roloson. The Oilers playoff run saved Lowe from being the answer to the question "Name the GM who made the worst trade of the 2000s."

And, typical of Oiler fans, you grossly underestimate the value of defense. But, I suspect you will have to learn that one the hard way this year.

Quote:
And they never were? With Pronger and Roloson and having just come off making the cup finals, I'd say they were without a doubt the favourites to win the division.
I would say that the Flames would have serious, serious issues with that belief. The Oilers were with a bit of a doubt the 2nd best team in the division with Pronger and Rolosn, but even that would be debatable on whether Theodore can recover from his disasterous season, and how the Canucks responded to their changes. I would have put the Oilers 2nd though due to fewer questions.

However, you now do not have Pronger, nor do you have Spacek. You've lost 56 of the 120 defensive minutes per game for your team, so fantasizing about what your team might have been is not all that productive at this point.

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07-09-2006, 11:23 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
And, typical of Oiler fans, you grossly underestimate the value of defense.
Yeah, we're at least as bad as Flame fans were this year underestimating the value of offense. It's July. The last time I looked the NHL doesn't play hockey in July.

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07-09-2006, 11:36 PM
  #42
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Yeah, we're at least as bad as Flame fans were this year underestimating the value of offense. It's July. The last time I looked the NHL doesn't play hockey in July.
Well then lets shut the entire forum down.

Basically, you just said "I cant counter any of that, so I am going to use a lame excuse to avoid having to."

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07-09-2006, 11:38 PM
  #43
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i believe we should sign samsonov and try to get a good D from trade
your thoughts
I believe the oilers should trade for Mogilny and Malakov.

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07-09-2006, 11:38 PM
  #44
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As awful as your goaltending was, the Oilers had a better record pre-Rolosn than they did post-Roloson. The Oilers playoff run saved Lowe from being the answer to the question "Name the GM who made the worst trade of the 2000s."
Huh? He's the only one to give up a 1st rounder for a rental?

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07-09-2006, 11:45 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
Who is looking to deal a "solid 1-2 defenseman" though? Especially for Schremp and a bit part? Not that it isnt possible, I just don't see who matches up with Edmonton here.

Teams in cap trouble might not have a choice. MAB is not a bit part either...he had tough finish, but he's still a decent young Dman capable of scoring 20+ goals...and he's signed to an extremely cap-friendly long-term contract.

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07-09-2006, 11:51 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Resolute View Post
As awful as your goaltending was, the Oilers had a better record pre-Rolosn than they did post-Roloson. The Oilers playoff run saved Lowe from being the answer to the question "Name the GM who made the worst trade of the 2000s."

And, typical of Oiler fans, you grossly underestimate the value of defense. But, I suspect you will have to learn that one the hard way this year.



I would say that the Flames would have serious, serious issues with that belief. The Oilers were with a bit of a doubt the 2nd best team in the division with Pronger and Rolosn, but even that would be debatable on whether Theodore can recover from his disasterous season, and how the Canucks responded to their changes. I would have put the Oilers 2nd though due to fewer questions.

However, you now do not have Pronger, nor do you have Spacek. You've lost 56 of the 120 defensive minutes per game for your team, so fantasizing about what your team might have been is not all that productive at this point.
That's a small sample size. That's not really a good argument. Roloson played 1 game in about 1.5 months. He looked rusty, etc. He looked good his last 5-8 games for the Oilers. He had great #'s. I think it's a positive having him for a whole season, despite changes infront of him. We will have to wait and see.

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Old
07-10-2006, 12:06 AM
  #47
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And, typical of Oiler fans, you grossly underestimate the value of defense. But, I suspect you will have to learn that one the hard way this year
OK, so last season the Oil miss the playoffs and the Flames had a great run to the playoffs. As a consequence, we got to listen to you spout bile about how awful the Oil were and how good the Flames were for a full offseason, regular season, and I'm guessing about 6.5 playoff games. Your criticisms mostly centred around how defense wins championships, Roloson is a career backup, and Pronger's over-rated. Fair enough, I guess the Flames earned a little respect, and the Oil hadn't done ****. Now, the Flames get knocked out in the first round, the Oil barely miss winning the cup, and we still have to listen to your condescending ****? And what exactly does Roloson have to do to prove himself to you? Play 82 consecutive games? Would that suffice?

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07-10-2006, 12:22 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by shawnmullin View Post
BARELY made the playoffs with awful goaltending. So subtract Pronger, add a good goaltender, add Lupul and Smid... I hardly think the team is worse than the group that finished 8th.

They ARE worse than the team that made the cup finals, but that's because the Oilers havn't picked up their rentals for this year yet. We'll see come trade deadline time.

And they never were? With Pronger and Roloson and having just come off making the cup finals, I'd say they were without a doubt the favourites to win the division.
Why do oiler fans count on Smid to make the jump to the NHL this season? it's not like he was a star in the AHL last season where he played soft and finished 49th in scoring for defenceman. Call me crazy but i don't see this guy making any kind of impact next year.

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07-10-2006, 12:25 AM
  #49
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Why do oiler fans count on Smid to make the jump to the NHL this season? it's not like he was a star in the AHL last season where he played soft and finished 49th in scoring for defenceman. Call me crazy but i don't see this guy making any kind of impact next year.
I think a lot of fans think he can play bottom minutes or any minutes right now because he has played against men for a few years already. He hasn't been playing against kids.

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07-10-2006, 12:30 AM
  #50
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OK, so last season the Oil miss the playoffs and the Flames had a great run to the playoffs. As a consequence, we got to listen to you spout bile about how awful the Oil were and how good the Flames were for a full offseason, regular season, and I'm guessing about 6.5 playoff games. Your criticisms mostly centred around how defense wins championships, Roloson is a career backup, and Pronger's over-rated. Fair enough, I guess the Flames earned a little respect, and the Oil hadn't done ****. Now, the Flames get knocked out in the first round, the Oil barely miss winning the cup, and we still have to listen to your condescending ****? And what exactly does Roloson have to do to prove himself to you? Play 82 consecutive games? Would that suffice?
You folks up north started it,when the Flames made it to the cup final every Oiler fan spouted "cinderella" and "fluke" and lots predicted the Flames to miss the playoffs the next season....i'll eat crow when the Oilers come back this season and win the division,until then i think their a dismantled group of flukes.

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