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Jason Ward, Blair Betts, Marcel Hossa

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Old
07-08-2006, 01:42 AM
  #1
JELLY
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Jason Ward, Blair Betts, Marcel Hossa

Am I the only person who is dissapointed from the third line?

It seems throughout the season Jason Ward missed a lot of chances to score and create other plays. Blair Betts was consistant, not flasy, but I did not expect that. and Hossa at times made me question him being a first rounder.

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07-08-2006, 01:58 AM
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Am I the only person who is dissapointed from the third line?

It seems throughout the season Jason Ward missed a lot of chances to score and create other plays. Blair Betts was consistant, not flasy, but I did not expect that. and Hossa at times made me question him being a first rounder.
I thought Ward was great, Betts was great on the PK, and Hossa absolutely sucked after October.

In my opinion, Hossa needs to go, the other two are very useful.

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07-08-2006, 02:07 AM
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I'm actually looking forward what that 3rd or 4th line can do next season.

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07-08-2006, 02:09 AM
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I just think that ward could have had at least 20 goals if he had played a tad better

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07-08-2006, 02:12 AM
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I just think that ward could have had at least 20 goals if he had played a tad better
In his first full NHL season i think he did very well. Hes only going to get better from last season. If he can put up 15-20 goals this season it would not be a huge shock to me honeslty. Im still thrilled the Rangers signed him last season as he is a great 3rd line player IMO.

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07-08-2006, 03:17 AM
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Criticism of Ward is a little harsh. He did well and should do better. Same with Betts.

Hossa? You have a point there. The guy will have to step and use what the good lord gave him or he'll be gone.

All three will feel pressure from below starting in September. I think that pressure will be the key to stepped up play on lines 2-4.

By mid season a few who did not make the big club might be ready for a call up from Hartford. That is when things start to get interesting imo.

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07-08-2006, 06:05 AM
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I think Ward did about as much...

as you can ask for from a third liner, and I think last season will give him confidence to improve this coming season. I also do not think that Betts will be centering that line. I remember when Betts went down and Ward centered that line, Ward's offense went up. That should be noted. There's also a chance that Hossa isn't on that line. The lineup's still in flux. Immonen could be centering the line. There's an outside chanc Cullen is centering the line. Helminen could be centering the line. Rucinsky could be on left wing. Prucha could be on left win. Greg Moore could be on left wing. Dawes could be on left wing. Point is, we don't know what the third line will look like at this point, and with the roster still in flux, it's tough to even project exactly who will be in competition for the three spots.

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07-08-2006, 06:16 AM
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Okay, without getting into my usual defense of Hossa, I think those of you who dislike him are seriously overlooking how the coaching staff feels about him - he was granted significantly MORE opportunity as the season wore on / into the playoffs. It seems to me that based on this fact, he has a very good shot to keep his spot, if not improve it. I hope he does a lot with that opportunity and many of you hope he falls on his face - either way, however, I think people need to acknowledge that he's going to get it and stop simply writing him off as gone in favor of someone else.

Another point: while I do want to see one or more rookies crack the top two lines, a very real factor that gets little discussion on this board is that the bottom two lines aren't sacrosanct. And most coaches want a kid to come in and make his chops on a lower line before giving him top line responsibility. It's entirely possible that multiple rookies make the team and players like Dom Moore or even Ortmeyer are the guys left on the outside looking in...

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07-08-2006, 09:01 AM
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Okay, without getting into my usual defense of Hossa, I think those of you who dislike him are seriously overlooking how the coaching staff feels about him - he was granted significantly MORE opportunity as the season wore on / into the playoffs. It seems to me that based on this fact, he has a very good shot to keep his spot, if not improve it. I hope he does a lot with that opportunity and many of you hope he falls on his face - either way, however, I think people need to acknowledge that he's going to get it and stop simply writing him off as gone in favor of someone else.

Another point: while I do want to see one or more rookies crack the top two lines, a very real factor that gets little discussion on this board is that the bottom two lines aren't sacrosanct. And most coaches want a kid to come in and make his chops on a lower line before giving him top line responsibility. It's entirely possible that multiple rookies make the team and players like Dom Moore or even Ortmeyer are the guys left on the outside looking in...
The whole point is to apply pressure from the bottom lines up. Typically teams bring in young players and start them ontheir 4th lines and occassionally on their 3rd lines and have them work their way onto the top 2 lines if deserving. We have a number of players who are now at that stage, Immonen, Helminen, Dawes, G. Moore and maybe to a lesser extent Dubinsky, Genoway,etc. The simple fact that players like D.Moore, Betts, Ward, Hossa are being pressured from below will spur those players to be more consistant, a good thing for us.

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07-08-2006, 09:42 AM
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It will be interesting to see how the 3rd line reacts to players coming out of camp looking to take positions away. Most players will not be able to slack off this season. The coaching staff needs to make sure that players play their best or they fill that slot with younger guys who can get the job done.

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07-08-2006, 12:01 PM
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Ward was the only I guy liked from that line.

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07-08-2006, 01:26 PM
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Ward is the only one that really proved to me he is a real 3rd liner. And I agree with Atlanta that you can improve the team by getting better players throughout your lineup not just by concentrating all your attention on your top lines. Personally I think Hossa has a lot to prove still. Betts is not creative enough in the middle as far as offense. He belongs on the 4th line. If you want Ward to score 20 goals you better find a center who is good for more than 2 assists a year. I was very happy with Jason's season.

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07-08-2006, 05:29 PM
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Ward is the only one that really proved to me he is a real 3rd liner. And I agree with Atlanta that you can improve the team by getting better players throughout your lineup not just by concentrating all your attention on your top lines. Personally I think Hossa has a lot to prove still. Betts is not creative enough in the middle as far as offense. He belongs on the 4th line. If you want Ward to score 20 goals you better find a center who is good for more than 2 assists a year. I was very happy with Jason's season.
Personally, I'd like to see what a 3rd line of Ward, Cullen and Hossa could do.

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07-08-2006, 05:31 PM
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Personally, I'd like to see what a 3rd line of Ward, Cullen and Hossa could do.

Get Hossa out of there. Guy is a failed 2nd liner, end of story

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07-08-2006, 05:52 PM
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Get Hossa out of there. Guy is a failed 2nd liner, end of story
You know what, TBBB, I've debated with you (or tried to) peacefully and rationally many times, but this is becoming a joke. And frankly I don't appreciate this last terse, rude comment.

Fine, I'll respond in kind. Stop watching hockey. Go watch Ultimate Fighting, because you clearly aren't actually interested in a complete hockey game - only hitting and fighting. Anyone who hits to you is worth getting. Anyone, regardless of what kind of stiff they are as a player. Seriously, name a player known for banging or fighting that you wouldn't want on this roster because he's a dog of an actual HOCKEY player. For the love of God, you suggested Chris ****ing Simon on the first line with Jagr. Give. It. Up.


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07-08-2006, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JELLY View Post
Am I the only person who is dissapointed from the third line?

It seems throughout the season Jason Ward missed a lot of chances to score and create other plays. Blair Betts was consistant, not flasy, but I did not expect that. and Hossa at times made me question him being a first rounder.
You're not the only one. In fact, its been a topic for a while now on this board. Ward I think is not a problem. And I'm willing to give Betts another shot. The third line needs to provide at least some scoring because as it stands, the fourth line will provide none.

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07-08-2006, 06:53 PM
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Ward: His numbers aare respectable for a 3rd liner with no PP time. Great speed and good hockey sense (10th among league forwards in takeaways). Could use his size a little more. I think he has more offense in him, especially if paired with more creative linemates. Ward was a dangerous player in the AHL, and people forget he was the AHL MVP in 2002-3 and carried his team to the 7th game of the Calder Cup Finals. The only thing that was supposedly holding him back was his footspeed, and he's dramatically improved that. With a season for his hands to adjust to his new speed, and paired with a more offesnive center (Immonen, Cullen, or Dubinsky), I think 40+ pts, is possible.

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Old
07-08-2006, 07:06 PM
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Ward with Immonen...

would actually be interesting. I'm not negative towards Betts, but think he's better-suited to be a fourth liner/penalty killer. But this team has a ways to go before we see who will be competing for the third line.

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07-08-2006, 08:05 PM
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You know what, TBBB, I've debated with you (or tried to) peacefully and rationally many times, but this is becoming a joke. And frankly I don't appreciate this last terse, rude comment.

Fine, I'll respond in kind. Stop watching hockey. Go watch Ultimate Fighting, because you clearly aren't actually interested in a complete hockey game - only hitting and fighting. Anyone who hits to you is worth getting. Anyone, regardless of what kind of stiff they are as a player. Seriously, name a player known for banging or fighting that you wouldn't want on this roster because he's a dog of an actual HOCKEY player. For the love of God, you suggested Chris ****ing Simon on the first line with Jagr. Give. It. Up.

Heh, I wasn't that rude now...I told you what I felt about Hossa. Again, we completely disagree. I'm one who believes that you don't need 3 offensive jewels on your 1st line, a scorer like Jagr, a playmaker like Nylander, and a grinder who can crash the net and protect the other 2 like Simon is what makes a good line for me. And I'll name you a ton of guys out of the list you named that I DO NOT WANT: Tie Domi, Dale Purinton, Tyson Nash, Aaron Downey, Eric Cairns, Eric Godard, should I go on? I'm a very positive fan, and I thought your idea was solid, except for Hossa.

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07-08-2006, 08:11 PM
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Heh, I wasn't that rude now...I told you what I felt about Hossa. Again, we completely disagree. I'm one who believes that you don't need 3 offensive jewels on your 1st line, a scorer like Jagr, a playmaker like Nylander, and a grinder who can crash the net and protect the other 2 like Simon is what makes a good line for me. And I'll name you a ton of guys out of the list you named that I DO NOT WANT: Tie Domi, Dale Purinton, Tyson Nash, Aaron Downey, Eric Cairns, Eric Godard, should I go on? I'm a very positive fan, and I thought your idea was solid, except for Hossa.
You know, I'm sorry I lost my temper - perhaps I read some tone into your post that you didn't intend or wasn't even actually there. (You must admit though, your post DOES read as kinda dismissive.)

But... it was kinda worth it to get you to put into writing that you don't want Tie Domi, Dale Purinton, Tyson Nash, Aaron Downey, Eric Cairns or Eric Godard on the team. I'm holding you to that now...

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Old
07-08-2006, 08:15 PM
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You know, I'm sorry I lost my temper - perhaps I read some tone into your post that you didn't intend or wasn't even actually there. (You must admit though, your post DOES read as kinda dismissive.)

But... it WAS kinda worth it to get you to put into writing that you don't want Tie Domi, Dale Purinton, Tyson Nash, Aaron Downey, Eric Cairns or Eric Godard on the team. I'm holding you to that now...

lol...I can go on and on, but then again, there's a bunch that we really could use out there. As you can tell, I'm one who comes from the old school physical style of hockey, and for the team to be shaped the way it is, I can't stand it. All is good now.

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Old
07-08-2006, 08:49 PM
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Ward was a hell of a pickup in my opinion. I still remember the uproar the move caused on these boards. But he worked out great for us. And I'm excited to see what he can do next season. I thought Betts was good too, but a step below Ward. Good on faceoffs, and scored a couple pretty goals but other than that he was pretty much 100% defense. I would have liked them to score more, sure, but considering they're relatively young, and were put in a defensive role most of the time...well, what are you gonna do.

If anyone needs to be looked at I think it's Ortmeyer's time. I love the hustle, and love his determination and PK skills, but he's way below Ward and Betts in terms of offense. He's just got no offense to speak of, and it doesn't look like that will ever change.

As for Hossa, love him or hate him, I think he did make great strides at the end of the season and into the playoffs. His offense is still MIA as it seems he still suffers from momentary lapses of brain functionality but he was very good in terms of puck protection, forechecking, and working along the boards. I just wish the offense would come around more than once per month. And give him credit, he was one of our best players in that sadsack series against the Devils.


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07-08-2006, 09:45 PM
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I thought they were okay, not quite as good as some people wanted to believe and that REALLY showed down the stretch.

Ward was good, though a tad overrated IMO. His first half was excellent, his second half was average. I think part of the feedback was due to really low expectations to begin with. I'm curious to see how he performs this year, I've seen a lot of player who suddenly appear disappear just as quickly after their one or two magical seasons. Either way I don't see him as a long term player, I think guys like Greg Moore, etc. are going to push him.

Betts was good at faceoffs and defense, though yet again the injury bug bit. I am fine with defense but his offense is non-existent and at this point it's pretty safe to label him brittle. I expect a guy like Helminen to really push him.

Hossa I am just not a huge fan of like some people. I have options I like better than him and thought his contributions were overblown.

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07-08-2006, 09:54 PM
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I like Ward the best out of the three. If this guy could just develop some decent moves to navigate the area close to the crease, he'd finish on a lot more of those breakaways and partial-breakaways that he creates through his hustle (even strength and when he's penalty killing). That's the only problem I have with Ward--his finishing skills. I really like everything else I see from him.

Betts and Hossa are players I'd like to see replaced, through internal promotions of guys like Helminen and Dawes or UFAs, sooner rather than later.

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07-08-2006, 10:00 PM
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To me Ward is the real one of the three to watch this year.

He'll either fall away and continue a journeyman career or his new confidence and vastly improved skating could turn him into a 15 goal checker.

Ward worked VERY hard to get to this point and did what 99% of players cannot, he reinvented himself.

He'll never be that 25-30 goal power forward montreal hoped for, but he might be a good checking winger.

For some reason I'm just not sold. It's very easy to see why the Habs fell in love with him in the first place, you can see those glimpses of something more and you always so "if he could just get a little better at this....".

I just don't know how much more improvement Ward is capable of.

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