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Wings Flames Proposal

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:05 AM
  #1
A Good Flying Bird*
 
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Wings Flames Proposal

Just a flyer ...

Datsyuk/Kopecky/2nd

for Iginla

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:12 AM
  #2
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I think they'd be looking for more for moving Iginla... Datsyuk is a nice player, but such a deal leaves a huge hole for them on the wing.

and can Detroit pick up that much more salary, when they still have the Cujo problem to deal with?

and from a Canuck fan POV, I hope that Calgary does the "smart" thing when and if they deal Iginla, and move him to the Eastern conference..

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:18 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
I think they'd be looking for more for moving Iginla... Datsyuk is a nice player, but such a deal leaves a huge hole for them on the wing.

and can Detroit pick up that much more salary, when they still have the Cujo problem to deal with?

and from a Canuck fan POV, I hope that Calgary does the "smart" thing when and if they deal Iginla, and move him to the Eastern conference..

Agreed. The original offer is not enough, and picks won't do the trick unless they are a top 10, first rounder. If they even deal Iginla, it should be to the Eastern conference, so it doesn't come back and bite us in the ass.

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:19 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
Agreed. The original offer is not enough, and picks won't do the trick unless they are a top 10, first rounder. If they even deal Iginla, it should be to the Eastern conference, so it doesn't come back and bite us in the ass.

Fair enough, I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Though I really thing the whole "trade him to the east" thing is lame. Trade him to the place that gives you most return.

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11-10-2003, 10:20 AM
  #5
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I dont see how this helps the "need for a bigger center" problem.... if anything it makes things worse, more money and another winger

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:21 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
Fair enough, I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Though I really thing the whole "trade him to the east" thing is lame. Trade him to the place that gives you most return.

By the way, what is Montreal supposed to be offering?

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:25 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
Just a flyer ...

Datsyuk/Kopecky/2nd

for Iginla


News, the 2nd round pick would have to be in 2005, because the Wings 2nd round 2004 was also dealt to LA for Schneider.

As for the trade, i would hate to deal Pavel, but getting a guy like Iginla would be awesome. Plus i agree with most poster, Detroit would have to offer up more. Maybe upgrade the 2nd rounder to a 1st (we know Holland loves dealing those picks) and add another prospect. Maybe Drew MacIntyre. I dont know how the Flames are set with goalie prospects. But Mac will probably be the odd man out with Liv and Howard in the fold.

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:28 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
Fair enough, I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Though I really thing the whole "trade him to the east" thing is lame. Trade him to the place that gives you most return.
I disagree..

of course the assumption is that you don't get a totally different offer from the West then you do with an eastern team.... if the offers are close than the East should always be the 1st choice for a western team to move a star.

I would also be willing to take a little less to move him to the East... but it would depend on how much less in the end.

you definitely want to get the most value for your asset though, all things being equal.

I think that most GMs do try and move players to other conferences in major deals... it doesn't always happen though.

in this case with Iginla... if the Flyers, for example, were willing to come up with a similar offer, I'm sure the organization would rather move him there.... and with a player like Iginla, there are sure to be offers from the East.

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:31 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
I disagree..

of course the assumption is that you don't get a totally different offer from the West then you do with an eastern team.... if the offers are close than the East should always be the 1st choice for a western team to move a star.

I would also be willing to take a little less to move him to the East... but it would depend on how much less in the end.

you definitely want to get the most value for your asset though, all things being equal.

I think that most GMs do try and move players to other conferences in major deals... it doesn't always happen though.

in this case with Iginla... if the Flyers, for example, were willing to come up with a similar offer, I'm sure the organization would rather move him there.... and with a player like Iginla, there are sure to be offers from the East.
All things being equal, yeah. But the premise is silly.

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:33 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWI19
News, the 2nd round pick would have to be in 2005, because the Wings 2nd round 2004 was also dealt to LA for Schneider.

As for the trade, i would hate to deal Pavel, but getting a guy like Iginla would be awesome. Plus i agree with most poster, Detroit would have to offer up more. Maybe upgrade the 2nd rounder to a 1st (we know Holland loves dealing those picks) and add another prospect. Maybe Drew MacIntyre. I dont know how the Flames are set with goalie prospects. But Mac will probably be the odd man out with Liv and Howard in the fold.
the Flames are pretty set with goalie prospects - with Saborin, Krahn and Medvedev...

they are also pretty deep with young defenders...

their biggest holes are all up front... top 6 centers and right wing especially.

moving Iginla is going to create another hole as well... so I'd assume if they move him, it'll be for a young center and a right winger, plus possibly another young forward prospect...

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:37 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
All things being equal, yeah. But the premise is silly.
why is the premise silly??

do the Flames want to sneak into the playoffs and end up facing Iginla on his new team in the first round?? do they want to remind the fans 4-8 times a year that they moved a young powerforward who was an elite player for them??

do they want to have those 4-8 games - or 8+ points a season - facing their former allstar and franchise player on his new team?

the risk for all of this is much smaller if he's out in the East...

we can't also ignore the fan perspective in this - seeing their former star on a different team... afterall this is a team that is so reliant on support and public perception... when you've missed the playoffs for 7 straight years, you don't want your fans to see a former player taking his new team to new heights any more than they would have to.

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:39 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
the Flames are pretty set with goalie prospects - with Saborin, Krahn and Medvedev...

they are also pretty deep with young defenders...

their biggest holes are all up front... top 6 centers and right wing especially.

moving Iginla is going to create another hole as well... so I'd assume if they move him, it'll be for a young center and a right winger, plus possibly another young forward prospect...


Well detroit doesn't have many forward prospect to offer. Maybe Fleischman who is tearing up the WHL 19 GP 6 Goals and 23 assists. But the Wings seems and should be high on this kid.

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:43 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWI19
Well detroit doesn't have many forward prospect to offer. Maybe Fleischman who is tearing up the WHL 19 GP 6 Goals and 23 assists. But the Wings seems and should be high on this kid.
yea... I don't see the Wings being a good fit for the Flames...

Philly still seems like the best fit to me

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:47 AM
  #14
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I agree that these two teams really shouldn't be trading with one another because they have holes in the same areas--up the middle.

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:50 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
yea... I don't see the Wings being a good fit for the Flames...

Philly still seems like the best fit to me


That is true. One thing i will say is, Mike Illitch said the Wings will get a power foward. And if the old man says it, you know Holland has to listen. Even if he means overpaying. Then again when doesn't Holland overpay??

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11-10-2003, 11:03 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
why is the premise silly??

do the Flames want to sneak into the playoffs and end up facing Iginla on his new team in the first round?? do they want to remind the fans 4-8 times a year that they moved a young powerforward who was an elite player for them??

do they want to have those 4-8 games - or 8+ points a season - facing their former allstar and franchise player on his new team?

the risk for all of this is much smaller if he's out in the East...

we can't also ignore the fan perspective in this - seeing their former star on a different team... afterall this is a team that is so reliant on support and public perception... when you've missed the playoffs for 7 straight years, you don't want your fans to see a former player taking his new team to new heights any more than they would have to.
If the Flames sneak into the playoffs, they'd be happier than they would not making the playoffs with Iginla.
And what about if they face Detroit in the playoffs and Datsyuk makes the Wings look silly.
Not trading in your own conference for fear of looking silly is a sign of GMs with no balls.

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Old
11-10-2003, 11:10 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
If the Flames sneak into the playoffs, they'd be happier than they would not making the playoffs with Iginla.
And what about if they face Detroit in the playoffs and Datsyuk makes the Wings look silly.
Not trading in your own conference for fear of looking silly is a sign of GMs with no balls.
well I guess than most GMs don't have balls... cause this is something I've noticed GMs talk about ever since I've started following hockey.

to me it makes a lot of sense... it always has...

it's no coincidence that the Canucks haven't pulled off a deal with the Oilers or Flames for more than 10 years! it's not a coincidence that when Bure went on the block the Canucks were basically only listening to 2 eastern teams (Flordia and NYR)... infact I don't think our team has ever made a deal with Minnesota or Colorado either (Northwest Division).

saying a GM doesn't have balls because he thinks like this is stupid!! GMs don't make moves to show the rest of the league they have balls, but to do what is best for their team long term and short term...

If Detroit makes an offer for Iginla, and Philly matches the offer - I'd deal him to Philly in a second...

the whole argument is stupid anyways... Detroit doesn't have the parts to make a deal like this... and what they do have, other teams could match.

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Old
11-10-2003, 11:36 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
Just a flyer ...

Datsyuk/Kopecky/2nd

for Iginla


Uh.....ya....

Try Zetterburg, Fischer and a 1st and we'll talk.

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Old
11-10-2003, 11:42 AM
  #19
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If Iginla goes to Detroit, Zetterberg comes to Calgary. I couldn't imagine Sutter asking for anyone else first. If we give up our best player, be dman sure that Sutter tries to land the world for him.

That said, there is potential for a deal between the two teams, but definently not as great a fit as another poster mentioned.

Schneider would be a guy Calgary could use to quarterback their powerplay and take that ever-important shot from the point - somehting Calgary just doesn't have. Pair him with Leopold see what they can deliver.

Me thinks Detroit could also use a guy like Gauthier on the back end - young kid hitting his prime with bone-crunching nastiness - and cheap, to boot.

Wonder if Legace could also be involved? Seems to be the type of goalie Calgary should go after. Even though Detroit will never trade him, it's always fun to speculate.

Iginla and Gauthier for Zetterberg, Legace, Schnieder? Maybe a pick somewhere, or another prospect from Detroit?

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11-10-2003, 11:49 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150


Uh.....ya....

Try Zetterburg, Fischer and a 1st and we'll talk.

Just curious, but what's the Montreal Rumor? WHo's being offered there?

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11-10-2003, 11:53 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
well I guess than most GMs don't have balls... cause this is something I've noticed GMs talk about ever since I've started following hockey.

to me it makes a lot of sense... it always has...

it's no coincidence that the Canucks haven't pulled off a deal with the Oilers or Flames for more than 10 years! it's not a coincidence that when Bure went on the block the Canucks were basically only listening to 2 eastern teams (Flordia and NYR)... infact I don't think our team has ever made a deal with Minnesota or Colorado either (Northwest Division).

saying a GM doesn't have balls because he thinks like this is stupid!! GMs don't make moves to show the rest of the league they have balls, but to do what is best for their team long term and short term...

If Detroit makes an offer for Iginla, and Philly matches the offer - I'd deal him to Philly in a second...

the whole argument is stupid anyways... Detroit doesn't have the parts to make a deal like this... and what they do have, other teams could match.
Well, Calgary has made trades within its own division (Drury, Reinprecht)
And Colorado has made big trades with San Jose, right?
Detroit got Chelios from Chicago.
Like I said, all things being equal, trade with the team that won't have a chance to leave you with egg on your face.
But I wouldn't turn down a better offer from a team within your conference.

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Old
11-10-2003, 12:03 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
Just a flyer ...

Datsyuk/Kopecky/2nd

for Iginla
A draft pick is useless to the flames if Detroit picked the player for the flames the pick would be worth more.

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Old
11-10-2003, 12:47 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150


Uh.....ya....

Try Zetterburg, Fischer and a 1st and we'll talk.
*phone hangs up*

No way would detroit consider that.... Fischer is gonna be our top2 dman probably in a few years with hatcher.... Zets is possibly our only decent replacement for yzerman in the comming years, and we need the first rounder to trade away later in a deal for a old vet... (because we wont use it to draft anyone, thats too easy)

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11-10-2003, 12:53 PM
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I don't really see how it can bite the Flames in the ass. It isn't like they are set in the playoffs and could get screwed over by Iginla playing them.

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11-10-2003, 01:30 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
well I guess than most GMs don't have balls... cause this is something I've noticed GMs talk about ever since I've started following hockey.

to me it makes a lot of sense... it always has...

it's no coincidence that the Canucks haven't pulled off a deal with the Oilers or Flames for more than 10 years! it's not a coincidence that when Bure went on the block the Canucks were basically only listening to 2 eastern teams (Flordia and NYR)... infact I don't think our team has ever made a deal with Minnesota or Colorado either (Northwest Division).

saying a GM doesn't have balls because he thinks like this is stupid!! GMs don't make moves to show the rest of the league they have balls, but to do what is best for their team long term and short term...

If Detroit makes an offer for Iginla, and Philly matches the offer - I'd deal him to Philly in a second...

the whole argument is stupid anyways... Detroit doesn't have the parts to make a deal like this... and what they do have, other teams could match.
Burke did make a deal with LA to send Potvin there and wouldn't you know it... the Cat came back and almost knocked the 'Nucks out of playoff contention. Thank goodnes for that Newfie Harold Druken. It was very close though and I bet Burke was gnawing on his nails big time.

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