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Old
07-10-2006, 09:02 AM
  #1
Nazzy-19
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Chouinard

The Canucks just signed him to a 2 year 1mill per year deal. What can you tell me about him? He seems to be pencilled into our 3rd line centre spot. He's got size but does he use it? What kind of offensive upside does he have? Can he be counted on for 15goals 30 pts year in year out?

Thanks in advance.

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07-10-2006, 09:13 AM
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Shakeywalton
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Originally Posted by Nazzy-19 View Post
The Canucks just signed him to a 2 year 1mill per year deal. What can you tell me about him? He seems to be pencilled into our 3rd line centre spot. He's got size but does he use it? What kind of offensive upside does he have? Can he be counted on for 15goals 30 pts year in year out?

Thanks in advance.
He stinks. Decent(not great) face-off guy. Plays about as soft as any 6-5 player could possibly play, and is not an offensive threat at all. Most of his goals last year were rebounds, tips,... generally being handed a gift.

Now you guys just need to pry Dupuis off our roster and you'll be set.

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07-10-2006, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Shakeywalton View Post
He stinks. Decent(not great) face-off guy. Plays about as soft as any 6-5 player could possibly play, and is not an offensive threat at all. Most of his goals last year were rebounds, tips,... generally being handed a gift.

Now you guys just need to pry Dupuis off our roster and you'll be set.
sounds like the perfect fit for the Sedins... maybe they can bounce 30 goals off of him, like they did with Carter?

wasn't he also your best faceoff man last year? 2nd on the team in total faceoffs (behind Walz), but 1st on the team in winning% (well ahead of Walz)???

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07-10-2006, 09:35 AM
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Shakeywalton
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Decent(not great) face-off guy.
Just in case you missed it the first time around.

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07-10-2006, 11:07 AM
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He stinks. Decent(not great) face-off guy. Plays about as soft as any 6-5 player could possibly play, and is not an offensive threat at all. Most of his goals last year were rebounds, tips,... generally being handed a gift.
Sounds terrific.

How are his tools? Can he skate, shoot, pass? Is he good in the cycle/corners? Defensively responsible? Did he ever play on special teams? Do you think he has the potential to improve?

Thanks guys.

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07-10-2006, 11:25 AM
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The Big E
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Sounds terrific.

How are his tools? Can he skate, shoot, pass? Is he good in the cycle/corners? Defensively responsible? Did he ever play on special teams? Do you think he has the potential to improve?

Thanks guys.
Skate - not that great
Shoot - if'n you want someone who will shoot six hole.
Pass - ya sure.
on the cycle/in the corners - he's hard to move, but he's not physical
Defensive responsibility - everyone on the Wild including the stick boy is defensively responsible. I have no idea how he'll do for the Nucks.

He scored 10 of his 30 points in the first 5-6 games then went ice cold. While his faceoff percentage is over 52%, Lemaire never sent him out for crucial defensive faceoffs as far as I remember. Typically, it was Walz who'd take them because of his defensive abilities.

Doug Risebrough and Jacques Lemaire decided he wasn't going to improve and now he's a Nuck. I think that speaks volumes about the Wild's opinion of him.

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07-10-2006, 11:31 AM
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itshomerdoh
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Doug Risebrough and Jacques Lemaire decided he wasn't going to improve and now he's a Nuck. I think that speaks volumes about the Wild's opinion of him.
Yeah I hear you. Frankly, I'm starting to get Richard Park flashbacks. Hopefully Mitchell works out...

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07-10-2006, 11:34 AM
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Yeah I hear you. Frankly, I'm starting to get Richard Park flashbacks. Hopefully Mitchell works out...
Yer gonna love Willie. He rocks. Just don't expect much offense.

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07-10-2006, 12:25 PM
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lol i'm not gonna lose sleep over losing marc chouinard...

Did he even play the 2nd half of last year, don't remember him doing ANYTHING....

He scored 3 goals in the first game last year though hahah

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07-10-2006, 12:41 PM
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What is it with Dave Nonis?

First he overpays Luongo by a few million dollars. I think Luongo will be a pretty good goalie, but $7 million/season? Are you freakin' kidding me? If you compare his numbers with Manny's, they are virtually identical...yet we're paying Manny just $3.75 million/season.

Next, Willie Mitchell...a stay at home, defensive defenseman....is getting $3.5 million per? Don't get me wrong, you'll be alright with Willie as long as you don't expect him to control the puck. $3.5 million is WAY too much for that type of player, IMO.

Now...Chouinard is getting $1 million dollars. Last season, he made $675,000 with the Wild. For the life of me, I can't figure out HOW he should make anymore than the $675K he made last year. The guy can give you 52% at the faceoff circle, but he is EXTREMELY soft. Do you want this guy on your checking line? I wouldn't. The guy as ZERO grit to his game.

You Nuck fans must be pulling your hair out with the moves that Nonis is making.

From what I can see, the Nucks have $7 million to spend and still need at least 10 players to fill out their roster.

Good luck...

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07-10-2006, 12:58 PM
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From what I can see, the Nucks have $7 million to spend and still need at least 10 players to fill out their roster.

Good luck...
Shouldn't be too much of a problem.

For those who are ignorant of the Canucks payroll situation, here is a terrific breakdown from nuckfan in TO:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
It was only a matter of time before this came up yet again...

here's a breakdown of the current situation... note this is the real situation, with actual cap hits, and not having things like Linden's salary (which was not, for the 100th time, picked up by the team, and they are looking for him to return for a discounted price. Before anyone asks, no there is no extra payout for Linden if his option is not picked up - which Nonis has confirmed is not going to be picked up).

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=255634

That shows we are currently at a payroll of $35.416 mill for 12 players. The team is not going to go with a 23 man roster, as they didn't all last season either, and we should expect about 21 players to make up the total roster (1 extra body)...

also we shouldn't expect Nonis to go to the cap, since he's already said he'll like to work around $2mill below the cap...

so that means we have about $6.584mill to spend on the remaining 9 players...

out of that group, the bottom line will all be at $450K-$600K at most (probably only Linden getting that $600K)... Reid is already signed, but not sure for how much, so I haven't added him, but it's likely close to the league minimum.

If we fill the bottom line with minimum wagers (as expected), as well as the extra body spot - we're looking at $1.8mill for 4 more spots.

So now we're at $4.784mill with 5 spots remaining... 4 of those spots should go to:

1) Noronen - about $700K
2) Krajicek - about $600K
3) Kesler - about $800K
4) Linden - about $600K

Totalling: $2.7mill.

That leaves the team with just over $2mill to fill the remaining top 6 winger spot, while still being $2mill below the cap line, carrying a 21 man roster as they did last season.

It only looks much tighter when you don't consider that basically all the key players are signed, except for a couple of below $1mill RFAs, and the depth is being filled by players making close to the league minimum (like King, Balej, Rypien, Burrows, Green, Reid, Santala, etc)...
Now we can speak about the Canucks payroll with all the information. Thanks.

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Old
07-10-2006, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
First he overpays Luongo by a few million dollars. I think Luongo will be a pretty good goalie, but $7 million/season? Are you freakin' kidding me? If you compare his numbers with Manny's, they are virtually identical...yet we're paying Manny just $3.75 million/season.
That would make perfect sense if Minnesota and Florida played similar systems, or had similar talent across the board.

So while their numbers might be virtually identical, the quality of shots and chances that Manny has to face would be significally less due to how defensively responsible the Wild are. That's also without mentioning that Luongo faced the largest average number of shots per game in the league. It is quite obvious both goalies were in very different situations.

I will agree though, I would have liked to see him prove himself in Vancouver first before he made that type of money.

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07-10-2006, 01:13 PM
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Wow...Linden for 600k...as in Trevor Linden? Did that happen? Is he that bad now where he only commands 600k or is this wishfull thinking?

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07-10-2006, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Shakeywalton View Post
He stinks.
Hmmm...he WAS fifth in average ice time among Wild forwards last year.
Either the other 15 forwards REALLY stunk, Lemaire is a jackass, or you don't know what you're talking about.
Which one do you think it is?

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07-10-2006, 01:18 PM
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Wow...Linden for 600k...as in Trevor Linden? Did that happen? Is he that bad now where he only commands 600k or is this wishfull thinking?
Yeah, no kidding. What the hell planet are we living on where Trevor Linden is only worth 60% of Marc Chouinard?

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07-10-2006, 01:20 PM
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Why does it seem like so many former minnesota wild players like to sign in the same division (park , laaksonen , chouinard , etc) could it be that they know how to beat the wilds system?

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07-10-2006, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Velvet E. Sax View Post
Wow...Linden for 600k...as in Trevor Linden? Did that happen? Is he that bad now where he only commands 600k or is this wishfull thinking?
Canucks did not pick up Linden's $1 million plus option this summer.
However, they have indicated that they would like him back at a cheaper price. He had a down year last year, but the previous summer he did not get an opportunity to follow his usual workout regimen, due to CBA negotiations as head of the players' union.
If he asks for more than $600-700M, I'm sure the Canucks will suggest he retire.

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07-10-2006, 01:25 PM
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Canucks did not pick up Linden's $1 million plus option this summer.
However, they have indicated that they would like him back at a cheaper price. He had a down year last year, but the previous summer he did not get an opportunity to follow his usual workout regimen, due to CBA negotiations as head of the players' union.
If he asks for more than $600-700M, I'm sure the Canucks will suggest he retire.
So if he is that bad, why would you want him back?

I can't help but think that if he really wanted to play, he'd look elsewhere.

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07-10-2006, 01:30 PM
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Yeah, no kidding. What the hell planet are we living on where Trevor Linden is only worth 60% of Marc Chouinard?
Not a planet I want to live on.

I suppose if he does sign a deal like this, there will be at least a dozen posters here that will say it was 100k too much...

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07-10-2006, 01:34 PM
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So if he is that bad, why would you want him back?

I can't help but think that if he really wanted to play, he'd look elsewhere.
He's not bad at all. He finally seemed to playing well the last 20 games of the season. In a capped league, you don't see a lot of teams overpaying veterans based on past service, like you used to.
Linden is worth $600M, maybe $700M and is certainly better than any minor leaguer the Canucks have to replace him.
But he is not worth the over $1 million option that was on his contract.
He certainly likes playing in Vancouver, so if the $600-700M price is not worth it to Trevor, I believe he will retire.

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07-10-2006, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Velvet E. Sax View Post
Not a planet I want to live on.

I suppose if he does sign a deal like this, there will be at least a dozen posters here that will say it was 100k too much...
Now they're saying it's $2.2m over 2 years...

About Linden, he's still a useful player. Looked bad at times last year, but that probably has a lot to do with the fact that he spent the year in a room with Bettman. He was still probably the team's best penalty killer, decent on faceoffs, and presumably a good leader for the team. Plus it seemed like they were saving him for the playoffs (his role usually increases in important games), but the team never got there. With better training this summer the hope is he'll be more effective.

The thinking seems to be he'll take one for the team and come back at $500-750k due to the salary crunch. The team seems to be grooming him for the front office post-retirement, so I don't think he'll be out for every penny he can get.

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07-10-2006, 01:41 PM
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He's not bad at all. He finally seemed to playing well the last 20 games of the season. In a capped league, you don't see a lot of teams overpaying veterans based on past service, like you used to.
Linden is worth $600M, maybe $700M and is certainly better than any minor leaguer the Canucks have to replace him.
But he is not worth the over $1 million option that was on his contract.
He certainly likes playing in Vancouver, so if the $600-700M price is not worth it to Trevor, I believe he will retire.
I just don't understand that if he's still not that bad and the amount of veteren leadership he could bring, along with the whole PR/hometown thing AND the fact that veteren centers are gold around playoff time, how this team justifies signing Marc Chouinard for a million and does not pick up an option that is very similar on someone who should be a much better alternative.

Sounds like he's done if you ask me.

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07-10-2006, 01:46 PM
  #23
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...and does not pick up an option that is very similar on someone who should be a much better alternative.
I believe the option was for $1.52m, which is what he made last year. He's not worth that kind of money, and the team would have a hard time fitting that contract into the lineup. I'm 90% sure he'll be back for $500-750k, and everyone will be happy.

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07-10-2006, 01:52 PM
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Wild Bill
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I believe the option was for $1.52m, which is what he made last year. He's not worth that kind of money, and the team would have a hard time fitting that contract into the lineup. I'm 90% sure he'll be back for $500-750k, and everyone will be happy.
That's what I thought, 1.52 is decent amount. If he does come back that cheaply (500k-750k) though, I'll be mildly surprised.

As for Chouinard, I think you guys will love him 25% of the time and forget he's on your team the other 75%...mostly the way he was here.

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07-10-2006, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Velvet E. Sax View Post
I just don't understand that if he's still not that bad and the amount of veteren leadership he could bring, along with the whole PR/hometown thing AND the fact that veteren centers are gold around playoff time, how this team justifies signing Marc Chouinard for a million and does not pick up an option that is very similar on someone who should be a much better alternative.
Sounds like he's done if you ask me.
Linden's option was for $1.52MM, now that I took the time to look it up. He knows he is not worth that kind of money anymore, with younger, cheaper guys like Chouinard around.
Another factor is that Linden is at the point of his career where he is much more effective on the wing than at centre.
The Canucks very much needed a reliable faceoff man for the third line and Chouinard fits the bill.
The Canucks will welcome Linden back to 3rd/4th line RW, but only if he comes down in salary as mentioned. The Canucks biggest forward issues are at right wing...signing Chouinard allows the Canucks to keep Linden on the right side.

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